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Old 08/07/09, 1:33 PM   #991
ekval
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Stormreaver (EU)
Originally Posted by mpiemont View Post
Thank everyone for their comments!

I have made an updated combat spreadsheet due to a significant number of new items that have been discovered! I also incorporated a lot of the comments and feedback, thanks

Combat_3.2_v5.zip
Seems like FileFront is stuck, able to host the sheet somewhere else?

Last edited by ekval : 08/07/09 at 1:46 PM.

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Old 08/07/09, 10:54 PM   #992
Thaela
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Khaz'goroth
And here's my updated version of the mutilate spreadsheet:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/gknidz...ilate_thae.xls

It was a bit rushed, so if you see problems let me know. Thanks go to mpiemont for putting in the effort for the armour stats.

Things to know about my version:
If you're comparing dps between the original mutilate spreadsheet and mine, you'll notice you've probably lost some dps. Here's why:
a) The major loss will come because I've (hopefully) fixed up the rupture formula.
b) Spell hit buffs have been fixed (as per my last version)
c) Some gear stats have been adjusted
d) Socket bonuses* Chances are you were lazy like me and didn't bother to adjust for the various socket bonuses

*Socket bonuses:
I've made an attempt at setting up the gear socket bonuses. For this to work properly, I've changed the way gems are entered on the spreadsheet. Unlike the original version where you'd put a red gem under the blue gem column to specify that the gem is going in a blue socket, on my version, if you're putting a red gem in a blue socket you still list it under the red gem column. Hopefully from that, I haven't stuffed up the socket bonus calculations and the spreadsheet will see that you've put a red gem in a blue socket and won't give you the socket bonus.

For example, my chest piece has a red socket and a blue socket. However I have 2 red gems in it, so I've listed them both under the red gem column.

I'm sure doing it this way will come back to bite me when I try and set up the scoring closer to the combat sheet, but we'll see how we go.

And come to think of it, I'm sure I've not allowed for BS sockets. These can probably be set up the same as the belt buckle.


I haven't attempted any trinket formulas either, if you want to help by all means drop me a line.
And if you know the correct way to handle Murder too (including any feedback it generates in the cycles which is what's tripping me up trying to add it) also feel free to message me.

EDIT: And I've just noticed that I forgot about the new profession bonuses. Looks like the combat sheet doesn't have this yet either. Keep that in mind.

Last edited by Thaela : 08/07/09 at 11:23 PM.

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Old 08/07/09, 11:59 PM   #993
Mavanas
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
Look 3.2 was not a crazy patch that required an immediate action by one of our theorycrafters. The changes to professions and axe spec were not going to change the balance. Combat was ahead of mutilate for non-murderable targets in 3.1, and it remains so. Mutilate was ahead on murderable targets, and it stays same.

The only considerable change that happened in 3.2 is related to Hat spec, which Aldriana did not model before. So all the early changes with new gear are just anxious updates about to go to waste as Aldriana is going to update his sheet soon.

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Old 08/08/09, 3:45 PM   #994
mih
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Mannoroth (EU)
Originally Posted by mpiemont View Post
thx4update

missing 3.2 changes
Master's Inscription of the Axe - 120AP (old 104AP)
Hyperspeed Accelerators - 340haste/12sec (old 10sec)
Fur Lining – Attack Power - 130ap (old 114ap)
Enchant Ring – Assault - 40ap (old 32)
Axe Specialization (Orc): The weapon bonus from this effect now applies to fist weapons in addition to axes.

missing enchants

Nitro Boosts - 24 crit rating
Flexweave Underlay (cloak) - 23 agility

missing items
Death's Choice
Vengeance of the Forsaken
Banner of Victory

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Old 08/09/09, 6:20 PM   #995
Tofuu
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Alterac Mountains
I just have a question regarding MH weapon speed for combat rogue. Let's assume fully BiS ulduar gears, what would be the EP values difference of MH weapon speed between 2.6 and 2.7?

Last edited by Tofuu : 08/09/09 at 6:26 PM.

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Old 08/09/09, 6:49 PM   #996
Miltrath
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Earthen Ring
Originally Posted by Tofuu View Post
I just have a question regarding MH weapon speed for combat rogue. Let's assume fully BiS ulduar gears, what would be the EP values difference of MH weapon speed between 2.6 and 2.7?
For MH weapons the speed is not as important as the damage range and the tooltip DPS. between a 2.6 and a 2.7 speed weapon, use the one with the highest tooltip DPS.

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Old 08/09/09, 7:28 PM   #997
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Wrong. MH speed is actually an appreciable contributer to weapon quality; it typically makes about half a tier of difference - for instance, Malice is significantly inferior to the 2.6 speed MH swords despite being the same DPS. If you unhide the calcs sheet you can find EP values for the speed differences. For me, .1 MH Speed is worth about 38 EP, versus weapon DPS which is 6.7; thus, it's worth giving up almost 6 DPS to get .1 speed.

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Old 08/09/09, 10:56 PM   #998
Dontmindme
King Hippo
 
Dwarf Rogue
 
Icecrown
The unofficial updated combat sheet is also missed the new ring upgrade [Etched Band of the Kirin Tor].

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Old 08/10/09, 6:03 AM   #999
Batto
Glass Joe
 
Troll Rogue
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
Mutilate sheet T9 set bonuses

I tried to add the T9 bonuses to the mutilate spreadsheet and because I don’t know much about excel I would like someone else to confirm if the changes are ok?

I added a column next to column X on the Gear sheet for the Tier9 indicator with the sum being on cell Y271 (copied the calculations from the X271 cell of Tier8). I then made an IF statement for the 2-set bonus on the Calcs sheet, on line 106 (“Total Regen”) adding 0.4 energy if cell y271 > 1

0,01*2*(B103+B104)*B80+B$67+B$13/3+(IF(Gear!Y271>1; 0,4; 0))

[2 set bonus is 2% per rupture tick to get a 40 energy reduction so in a theoretical 100% rupture uptime situation is 30 ticks/ min * 2% * 40e = 24e/m = 0.4e/s]

I also added the above IF statement to line 172 on Calcs sheet (for iteration2).

For my gear this bonus is around 93 dps compared to ~76 dps of 2-set T8 bonus (which is 0.33e/s)

For 4set bonus I added the following IF statement on line 63 on Calcs sheet (“Mut Crit no Agi”):

B62+15+(IF(Gear!Y271>3; 5; 0))+2*Talents!$B$12

The dps bonus of 2set T9 was low, and tier8 bonuses have an advantage of ~244 dps over Tier9 in my gear. I am sorry for not giving exact numbers but I am at work and I don’t have the updated excel sheet here – I can update this evening.

I also updated the gem calculation to include the new epic gem values for the item EP scores. On Calcs sheet, cell R370, I changed

16*MAX(C368;2*D368)
to
20*MAX(C368;2*D368)

and on cell R371 from

0,5*R370+8*MAX(F368;E368;J368)
to
0,5*R370+10*MAX(F368;E368;J368)

Last edited by Batto : 08/10/09 at 6:59 AM.

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Old 08/10/09, 7:54 AM   #1000
 Maestroquark
What Would You Have Me Do?
 
Maestroquark's Avatar
 
Ramala
Orc Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Batto View Post
[2 set bonus is 2% per rupture tick to get a 40 energy reduction so in a theoretical 100% rupture uptime situation is 30 ticks/ min * 2% * 40e = 24e/m = 0.4e/s]
This has an assumption about the 2pc set bonus that has been bothering me. Not all abilities cost 40 energy. How do you really get the most out of the proc? Do you keep your cycle, ignoring the energy loss? Do you SS/Mut in place of any finisher? Maybe it's SS/Mut in place of the cheap finishers Rupture/SnD.

Cally - EJBSG 27; Dee Baltar - EJBSG 22; Tory - EJBSG 20; Leoben - EJBSG 19; Helo - EJBSG 14; Starbuck - EJBSG 12

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Old 08/10/09, 9:12 AM   #1001
and
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by Thaela View Post
And here's my updated version of the mutilate spreadsheet:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/gknidz...ilate_thae.xls

It was a bit rushed, so if you see problems let me know. Thanks go to mpiemont for putting in the effort for the armour stats.

...
Thanks alot for your work, Thaela. I probably found a little error:

in "Gear" sheet, cell E217, I guess you want to add to "Calcs!AD372", not "Calcs!AD370" in your formula.

And

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Old 08/10/09, 10:22 AM   #1002
veiled25
Glass Joe
 
veiled25's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Defias Brotherhood (EU)
I noticed that Silent Crusader isn't available as a MH wep. I know it's old, but any chance you could add this so that I might correctly set mine up?

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Old 08/10/09, 10:37 AM   #1003
Tinwhisker
Bald Bull
 
Tinwhisker's Avatar
 
Dwarf Rogue
 
Scarlet Crusade
Originally Posted by veiled25 View Post
I noticed that Silent Crusader isn't available as a MH wep. I know it's old, but any chance you could add this so that I might correctly set mine up?
You can add it yourself by "un-hiding" the proper sheets and inserting it in along with its stats.


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Old 08/10/09, 1:48 PM   #1004
• Vulajin
Vula'jin the Void, blessed by the loa
 
Vulajin's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Maestroquark View Post
This has an assumption about the 2pc set bonus that has been bothering me. Not all abilities cost 40 energy. How do you really get the most out of the proc? Do you keep your cycle, ignoring the energy loss? Do you SS/Mut in place of any finisher? Maybe it's SS/Mut in place of the cheap finishers Rupture/SnD.
This strikes me as being similar to the old "how much DPS do you gain by pooling energy in conjunction with AToL procs" question. My guess is that choosing a particular attack in response to the proc is not going to increase your DPS by a terribly large percentage. As it is, most of the special attacks you're performing are going to be Sinister Strike/Mutilate. The frequency of performing a Slice and Dice or Rupture is probably something like 20-40%, so you're really losing an average of about 3-6 energy per proc. That's 7.5-15% of the theoretical value of the set bonus.

Hell, even if you use every proc for Slice and Dice, you only lose 37.5% of the bonus's value.

Originally Posted by Enervate
Yep, still a fucking idiot.

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Old 08/10/09, 6:41 PM   #1005
CrayonOfDoom
Glass Joe
 
CrayonOfDoom's Avatar
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Aerie Peak
Originally Posted by Vulajin View Post
This strikes me as being similar to the old "how much DPS do you gain by pooling energy in conjunction with AToL procs" question. My guess is that choosing a particular attack in response to the proc is not going to increase your DPS by a terribly large percentage. As it is, most of the special attacks you're performing are going to be Sinister Strike/Mutilate. The frequency of performing a Slice and Dice or Rupture is probably something like 20-40%, so you're really losing an average of about 3-6 energy per proc. That's 7.5-15% of the theoretical value of the set bonus.

Hell, even if you use every proc for Slice and Dice, you only lose 37.5% of the bonus's value.
Assuming some amount of luck, would it be feasible to analyze the proc as only a sinister strike? I'd be interested in seeing whether it's more advantageous to always sinister strike (regardless of current combo points) or to go ahead and use a finisher on the off chance that it procs at 5cp. Not sure how easily modeled that is, and it might need it's own corner of discussion in one of the other threads, but "wasting" between 7.5%-37.5% of the proc seems significant enough to warrant alternative ideas about how to deal with a proc given you can catch it before you dump it on a Slice and Dice.

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