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Old 09/01/09, 2:52 AM   #1156
Farz
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Sargeras (EU)
In order to compensate the loss of the 4t8 you have to get at least 4 239+ items.

For instance this setup with late ulduar HM gear and early Coliseum this will make the trick and give you roughly a 50 dps increase :
Head : Hood of Lethal Intent
Spaulders : Garona's Pauldrons of Triumph
Chest : Embrace of the Gladiator
Gloves : Sunreaver Assassin's Gloves (232)
Legs : Legguard of Cunning Deception

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Old 09/01/09, 11:20 AM   #1157
Indalecio
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Hellscream
For starters, the spreadsheets are designed around a 25-man raid with full buffs/debuffs. In a 10 man raid, you will likely not have the full set of buffs. Also, the spreadsheets model a fight in which you don't have to move around or switch targets, which is the opposite of almost all fights in Ulduar.

Basically, the spreadsheets are just an estimation. However, you might want to consider a 3s/5r/5e cycle.

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Old 09/01/09, 11:22 AM   #1158
Naeramarth
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Twisting Nether
Originally Posted by Krono674 View Post
Hey Ive been having trouble with my dps recently and I had some quick questions. I've been using one of the spreadsheets I found on the forums and its reading that I should be doing around 6000dps. I'm geared pretty well, and I'm doing a cycle of 5snd/5r/5e combat, but yesterday during our raid 10man, I hit about 4.5 - 5K on most bosses. I know Im doing my rotation right, but Im just not sure if some stat is too high or low that might be messing me up or if my spec is wrong? Not only that when using the spreadsheet, I put in Grimtoll instead of Mirror of Truth because it says that it is a big dps upgrade, but when I do it goes down considerably. Any help would be great
No need to link to your Armory. We should be able to get it from your name.

Concerning your question, the spreadsheets (by default) model optimal raiding situations in a 25-man scenario. So if you're not reaching (or at least close to) the dps estimate in the spreadsheet, the usual standard questions apply. Were you receiving all the buffs that you enabled in the spreadsheet? Were those buffs up the entire time during fights or were they allowed to drop (i.e. DKs not renewing HoW, etc.)? If it was a multi-target fight, was there a full Sunder stack or an Expose Armor on your primary target? In a 10-man, there's a good chance that you are missing out on several buffs that would be assumed to be present in a 25-man, so make sure you model the 10-man scenario in your spreadsheet as closely as possible. Then try to check a WWS of the fights to see if the buffs you enabled were up the entire fight. If everybody else was doing their job, and your dps was still low, then the onus is on you to improve. Perhaps by managing or synching your cooldowns more effectively and maximizing your time on target.

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Old 09/01/09, 1:59 PM   #1159
Krono674
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Ysondre
Ah right, that makes sense, I forgot about the buffs part of le sheet -.-

But still, is there any reason that my DPS would go down when GT was put in place of Mirror of Truth even tho the spread sheets say it should be a decent dps increase?

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Old 09/01/09, 2:24 PM   #1160
tedoubledy
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Dawnbringer
You're probably not standing behind the target or attacking the target when GT procs for the full duration of the proc. The spreadsheet assumes that you are stationary and behind the target at all times, if you're not able to do so, you're not really getting the full benefit of the armor pen proc and the additional 83 hit that GT would provide would add little value when you are already at 330 hit. Therefore, having mirror of truth may work out for you more so if you find it difficult to stick to the target as the crit stat may provide a more immediate benefit. This is all speculation as I have no idea how you play. But based on your gear, on XT (one of the better fights to measure your dps as you should be stationary at all times given that you CLOS the bombs) you should see your numbers in range of the spreadsheet if you have the right raid composition and buffs. The spreadsheet is a guide and not law as mentioned several times in this thread as the spreadsheet cannot measure the skill of the player but do not doubt that the spreadsheet is modeling the DPS correctly.

I for one like to gem for expertise at times when my expertise numbers get too low as it makes it easier on my rotation maintenance. It's a personal choice and it does increase my DPS as it just works for me (i.e. rotation drops really messes me up)

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Old 09/02/09, 9:17 PM   #1161
campiona
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Eitrigg
Originally Posted by nonmagical View Post
On a side note I noticed you only have 421 base ArP. That seems rather low to make the switch over to the rupture-less cycle. You are able to keep up with fellow Rogues running rupture? Or a better question, on fights where you once used rupture are you able to do slightly more / slightly less / about the same dps?

The reason I ask is because I am sitting on 559 ArP at the moment. That, with Mjolnir I barely under the ArP softcap. According to the beta spreadsheet switching to rupture-less will lose me about 250 dps. Of course, both spreadsheets are calculating under certain optimal assumptions (95% rupture uptime for instance). I'll admit I probably am a bit lower than that, so perhaps the dps gap is not so large.

Wondering if perhaps now would be a good time to test it out, even though I am very very far from the hardcap.
In some cases, the damage increase has been eye-popping.

Again, this is all anecdotal and I realize I was probably too hasty in my switch to a rupture-less mace spec based on the gear at the time I posted here. I just wanted to get a feel for it in terms of mechanics and stay ahead of the curve a little.

I switched it all back to a CQC build with Agi stacked the other night -- but after three big upgrades from 25man Trial of the Crusader last night, I am at 609 ArP passive with 5/5 mace spec -- so I'm going back to Aldriana's experimental rupture0-less mace spec for the next few raids.

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Old 09/03/09, 3:59 PM   #1162
natox
Von Kaiser
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Xavius (EU)
ArP gets a nerf in 3.2.2 and you need 1400 rating to cap it. Does it have an impact to your best in slot and to the ruptureless cycle Aldriana?

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Old 09/03/09, 6:36 PM   #1163
Sauce
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Whisperwind
Is anyone maintaining (presumably privately, since I haven't seen one here) a version of the latest spreadsheet math that doesn't remove the lower-tier gear, for those of us who are interested in the models but progress more slowly?

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Old 09/03/09, 7:19 PM   #1164
Feist-Mok
Im***est.
 
Feist-Mok's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by natox View Post
ArP gets a nerf in 3.2.2 and you need 1400 rating to cap it. Does it have an impact to your best in slot and to the ruptureless cycle Aldriana?
Pretty sure the nerf is still unconfirmed. It may be intended, it may also be a bug, and I think people have been reserving statements until we know more.

That said, I'm sure it does have an impact - how much of one, I'll leave to Ald to answer.

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Old 09/04/09, 9:33 PM   #1165
Feist-Mok
Im***est.
 
Feist-Mok's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by Feist-Mok View Post
Pretty sure the nerf is still unconfirmed. It may be intended, it may also be a bug, and I think people have been reserving statements until we know more.

That said, I'm sure it does have an impact - how much of one, I'll leave to Ald to answer.


Welp.

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Armor pen nerf in 3.2.2

Time to start adjusting BIS lists. Looks like it's axes all around.

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Old 09/05/09, 4:12 AM   #1166
Asuah
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
<PvD>
Gul'dan
If you want to see the effect in the combat spreadsheet, in the Calcs sheet (in excel: right click Equipment at the bottom, Unhide..., Calcs) change 1.25 in B359 and B370 to be 1.1, and fill right across those respective rows.

At my moderate level of ArPen (594) it looks like I'm going to have to regem Agility at the very least.

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Old 09/05/09, 4:33 AM   #1167
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Um, you need to change more than those two rows. Specifically, in the 1.2 sheet, you need to change all of 359-362 and 370-373. In 1.3 beta 2, it's 96, 846-849, and 857-860.

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Old 09/05/09, 7:26 AM   #1168
bural
Piston Honda
 
Troll Rogue
 
Genjuros (EU)
Some changes to be observed relative to the previously suggested BiS list. Changing the neck from Collar to Charge of the Eredar (258 Horde)/Charge of the Demon Lord (258 Alliance) is a dps upgrade and gems now need to be evaluated taking the socket bonus into account, sometimes making 10agi+crit superior to 20arp.
Axes are naturally superior to the dagger+mace combination now albeit only with some 65dps, abit less using Eviscerates alone. That's the most interresting change I guess; axe based setups keeps Rupture in the cycle (although not with as high uptime as previously), but mace+dagger performs best using Ruptureless cycles.

Last edited by bural : 09/05/09 at 12:02 PM.

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Old 09/05/09, 10:26 AM   #1169
koaschten
In the rear with the gear!
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Khaz'goroth (EU)
I've tried to track down why the beta 2 sheet is showing the value of ArP and Agi as equal when it shouldn't be, but failed. Any Tips?
Obviously there are some linked calculations in the stat vector rows linking to cells that strangely are unrelated to ArP and Agi?

How to get an Android Authenticator on your PC. (updated feb'11)

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Old 09/05/09, 10:53 AM   #1170
Hallie
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Aszune (EU)
Originally Posted by koaschten View Post
I've tried to track down why the beta 2 sheet is showing the value of ArP and Agi as equal when it shouldn't be, but failed. Any Tips?
Obviously there are some linked calculations in the stat vector rows linking to cells that strangely are unrelated to ArP and Agi?
The "Use Agi Value for ArPen?" in the settings sheet is enabled by default.

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