3.1 Rogue Changes - Early Preview - Page 106

Kuzz · 04/14/09, 5:47 PM

Originally Posted by ieatpaperbag

In addition to moving points into Master Poisoner, you should consider moving the two points that are typically put into either Quick Recovery or Fleet Footed into Murder since it will be applicable to a number of the bosses in Ulduar, unlike Naxx with was predominantly undead.

For a typically single-target boss fight it is better to take a Rupture glyph instead of SnD especially once picking up 4pc t8. If you are having trouble keeping SnD up in your rotation, move a point or two from Precision into Improved SnD.

This is what I will do and seems to be what most of the rogues who mut will be doing. The big thing is keeping rup glyph and getting mut, hfb. Other than master poisoner fot TtT I wont change my spec at all. Now if we can get the servers to come up we can try this out.

Sais · 04/14/09, 5:47 PM

Originally Posted by Vamprillo

I'm not sure that this is the general consensus on these boards, if you look at a post by Mavanas here:

Rogue DPS Simulation Spreadsheet

his tests mostly show combat to be pulling ahead.

@fL0w: If you take a look at the Improved Poisons tooltip, you'll see that it also increases the frequency of IP.

I had a quick question, in that I was wondering if TotT is counted as an enrage effect, and if it will not stack with other enrage buffs?

Hysteria, Tricks of the Trade, Enrage, Wrecking Crew, Death Wish, Arcane Power, Owlkin Frenzy, Beast Within, and Avenging Wrath damage bonuses no longer stack together.

Almehym · 04/14/09, 5:55 PM

Originally Posted by Sais

Hysteria, Tricks of the Trade, Enrage, Wrecking Crew, Death Wish, Arcane Power, Owlkin Frenzy, Beast Within, and Avenging Wrath damage bonuses no longer stack together.

To clarify, while they do not stack, TotT is not considered an enrage effect for purposes of tranq shot or anesthetic poison.

Belisarivs · 04/14/09, 5:55 PM

Mavanas said his testing did not include Murder, and Murder works on most of the ulduar bosses.

sinster · 04/14/09, 5:56 PM

So like am I gonna have to drop HaT for MuT? I really wanna stay hat and I hate freakin daggers. But it looks like MuT is owning. Anyone HaT rogues wanna comment on this?

Kuzz · 04/14/09, 6:01 PM

Originally Posted by Sais

Hysteria, Tricks of the Trade, Enrage, Wrecking Crew, Death Wish, Arcane Power, Owlkin Frenzy, Beast Within, and Avenging Wrath damage bonuses no longer stack together.

So if I read this right ToT will no longer stack with hfb? I know the other rogue and I in my guild ToT each other after we use it on the tank from the pull. Will this no longer be the case with me Mutilate?

fL0w · 04/14/09, 6:19 PM

Originally Posted by Vamprillo

@fL0w: If you take a look at the Improved Poisons tooltip, you'll see that it also increases the frequency of IP.

Yea, I know this. I'm just saying, will improved poisons still be worth getting now that IP has been changed to a PPM mechanic. For example, if someone is poison hit capped and wielding 2 x WD, along with the additional haste from lightning reflexes, will they even benefit from the points in improved poisons?

StoicRoivaS · 04/14/09, 7:06 PM

Quick question for you all while we're waiting for our realms to pop up. I'm noticing on Shadow Panther that:

Guise of the Midgard Serpent
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...ot_9722_24.jpg

from Thorim-10 (normal mode) at item level 219 is rated at 374 MAEP while

Conqueror's Terrorblade Helmet
[Conqueror's Terrorblade Helmet]

from some 25-man boss (assumedly on normal mode) at item level 226 is rated at 370 MAEP. I know this isn't really the place to debate Shadow Panther's weightings or anything like that, but I'm curious if this is an oversight somewhere. Obviously the expertise on the 10-man helm is far better than the haste on the 25-man helm, but assuming these take a similar number of "itemization points" in Blizzard's system (which I don't know is necessarily true or false), why in the world is the 17 extra crit weighed against 32 ap on the helm and another 16 extra ap in the socket bonus, especially considering the 7 ilvl difference. Maybe I'm missing something here, but a socket bonus of 32 ap is a bit... incredible. The cutoff for socketing blue is somewhere around 8 agi (16 ap) so it's almost a non-choice at that point. Any insight here?

Jarlaxle · 04/14/09, 8:13 PM

so is there any talk of combat daggers? Couldn't find anything recent searching this thread.

Im going to stick mutilate on one spec and since I dont have a good fist weapon, i thought i'd slap on combat daggers on my offspec (since i have SR and WD)

Or would it be better to use the 140s/150s dps fist and WD over a combat dagger build...

Feist-Mok · 04/14/09, 8:21 PM

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle

so is there any talk of combat daggers? Couldn't find anything recent searching this thread.

Im going to stick mutilate on one spec and since I dont have a good fist weapon, i thought i'd slap on combat daggers on my offspec (since i have SR and WD)

Or would it be better to use the 140s/150s dps fist and WD over a combat dagger build...

The vast majority of 'talk about combat daggers' has been people pointlessly asking the question before being pointed to a spreadsheet revealing just how very very far behind it is.

There's really no good reason to spec combat daggers - it has none of the advantages of a combat spec, and all of the downsides and then some, and does sub-par DPS.

As to whether SR/WD Combat Daggers would beet say Greed/WD Combat, well, check the spreadsheets once finished, but I'd be inclined to doubt it, and even if it were, it would still be far behind mutilate, which returns us to the old adage of Spec for the weapons you have, not for the weapons you want.

Kumar · 04/14/09, 8:51 PM

Well the new FoK animation is well...annoying on the eyes.

Foxgloves · 04/14/09, 9:26 PM

These discussions have moved beyond the "Early Preview" stage.

I would like to request a new post 3.1 thread. I will happily copy pasta a quick summary of the conclusions reached within this thread on gear, new specs, combat and mutilate changed in itemization, etc.

Forgive me for not starting one myself, but I am a long time lurker and have not completed the 10 posts required to start the new thread on my own.

Wogue · 04/15/09, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by Almehym

Wogue, I'm not sure I quite understand the advice you are giving. Why would you have filler points to put into Imp SnD as combat spec, when you already fill up Imp SnD with the typical combat spec?

If you can keep a steady cycle going without Imp. SnD then those points are wasted, therefore most combat specs will not have a point in Imp. SnD, and the points would be better spent elsewhere. If your SnD keeps dropping, then a point in Imp. SnD should be enough. A high end player will not need a 35 second SnD timer.

Basically any player using Imp. SnD should not be using Glyph of SnD as well.

krazyblade · 04/15/09, 3:11 AM

I read a lot of the above posts to figure this out, but i saw someone posting the following :

Originally Posted by tedoubledy

-Mutilate-
Still maintain the cookie cutter spec 51/13/7 - picking up master poisoner instead of turn the tables with the improved fuctionality of master poisoner.

Is it worth losing the 6% crit of ttt vs master poisoner's poison application ?

saedo · 04/15/09, 4:15 AM

Originally Posted by krazyblade

Is it worth losing the 6% crit of ttt vs master poisoner's poison application ?

It's the new deadly poison application with envenom that makes it worth it.