So, for those of you that have requested additional information in terms of my earlier comments on the various builds:

IP/IP Eviscerate (hereafter IIV) appears to be largely speed-agnostic in both hands. SR is clearly the top choice for both weapons; if you don't have 2, all ilvl 213 daggers are within 10 DPS for the OH, topped by Webbed Death - more because it's stats are the best itemized of the options as due to any speed consideration. In particular, while Webbed Death is the best, Murder is (arguably) the worst.

IP/DP Envenom (hereafter IDN) favors a fast weapon to a ridiculous extent in the OH; hence, the top options would be, much as they are now, SR/WD followed by SR/Murder.

If Envenom were (somehow) made to not clear stacks, IDN exhibits a slight preference for fast OHs, of about the same magnitude as the preference for slows weapons in the MH; in particular, SR/SR is the best option, followed by SR/WD and then SR/Murder. For purposes of the tables below, I will call this IDN*.

In terms of the actual magnitude of differences, consider the following:

With 3.0 armor mechanics:

	SR/SR	SR/WD	SR/Murder
IIV	5824	5771.2	5762
IDN	5752	5804.4	5765.5
IDN*	5979.6	5969.9	5946.2

With an approximation of projected 3.1 armor mechanics:

	SR/SR	SR/WD	SR/Murder
IIV	5902.7	5849.5	5839.9
IDN	5796.6	5843.4	5805.6
IDN*	6008.5	5994.5	5971.6

So: with IDN, SR/WD is the preferred setup; with the other two options, SR/SR is stronger (by varying margins). With optimal weapon setup, IIV beats IDN by about 1% across the board, while IDN* is around 2% ahead of IIV. That's *probably* enough that IIV would be unlikely to outscale IDN*, but a little extra cushion wouldn't hurt, either.

Thank you Aldriana for all your work. The initial findings seem to still put rogues behind the other classes, and combat rogues farther back still. Of course, I am not a math afficienado so perhaps my numbers reading are off-kilt, but I can't seem to come to the conclusion that these changes will add dps, but we'll still be behind the pack. As mentioned previously, I can't see how combat can compete with the mut specs now. The disparity seems too great. The poison PPM nerfs poison damage for combat which eats up some of the buff brought with the haste increase.

Er, no? Making poisons PPM is a substantial buff to poison damage for combat, since you now get more procs from your (slow) mainhand weapon.

I see a lot of numbers going around and I know it is still very early to determine an exact number. But it would seem the with the new glyphs that assassination tree would be buffed overall? I guess I am just anxious as everyone else to see what the percents are and how they stack up with the combat tree.

As PPM now is normalized to 1.4 speed, Wound Poison (hereafter WP) has gone from having a 50% chance for being applied to a 21.43 PPM (60/1.4 * 0.5), which can be extended to, that proc rate for WP is equal to (Weapon Speed/1.4)*50%, as we have data for, that 1.4 speed weapon procs WP ~50% and 2.8 speed procs at ~100%.

For the following, I have taken a generic Combat cycle (3/5/5) which takes aprx 25 seconds.

A - Prior to 3.1
Assuming 10% haste from gear and 40% haste from SnD (haste factor of 1.54), using CG/WD, GC (1.689 speed) will perform 14.8 auto attacks, WD (0.91 speed) will perform 27.47 auto attacks, plus 13 Sinister Strikes. AS WP has 50% chance of being applied per attack, we get (14.8+27.47+13)*0.5 = 27.63 procs over 25 seconds or 66.33 PPM.

B - 3.1
Assuming 10% haste from gear, 10% haste from LR and 40% haste from SnD (haste factor of 1.694), using CG/WD, CG (1.535 speed) will perform 16.28 auto attacks, WD (0.826 speed) will perform 30.23 auto attacks, plus 13 Sinister Strikes from a 2.6 speed weapon, lowering proc to (2.6/2.8) = 92.8%. Given the same 3/5/5 cycle and gear as above, we get 16.28 MH attacks and 30.23 OH attacks plus 8 SS: (16.28/1.08) = 15.07 WP procs + (30.23/2) = 15.12 WP procs + (8/1.08) = 7.41 WP procs, given a total of 37.6 WP procs or 90.24 PPM.

As we see, if my calculations are correct, 3.1 increases PPM using WP and a 3/5/5 Combat cycle by 36% from 66.33 PPM to 90.24 PPM.

EDIT: I completely agree, that this is a significant buff for Combat rogues, if the poison damage stays as it is.

EDIT: WP appears to have been reduced on EU PTR in damage. On 3.08 Live WP VI has a "50% chance of causing the enemy 360 Nature damage" and WP VII does 406 Nature damage, on 3.1 PTR WP IV (the same poison) has a "chance of causing 190 Nature damage." and WP VII does 231 Nature damage. For WP VI this is a reduction in base damage of 47.23%, for WP VII this is a reduction of 43.1%.

I myself has not checked them, but a guild mate checked both at poison vendors and on his vendor mount (yes he spend 15K gold on PTR to check it ). The reason why the numbers aren't the same as what others mention is, because it was a non-rogue who checked them. After having had a few other non-rogues checking poison damage, it seems, that numbers differ from class to class, and only rogues get the correct damage number.

I see no evidence that poison damage has been reduced. My poison damage on test still obeys the formulas we've been using on live, with the exception of Deadly Poison, which has been buffed. So for combat: your OH (with DP) does more damage due to the increased AP scaling, and your MH (with WP) procs almost twice as much as it did before, for the same amount of damage. So I have a hard time seeing how this can possibly be seen as anything but a significant buff.

After doing ~500 Sinister Strikes using my Warglaive at an angle (such that white attacks wont hit because they are out-of-angle but you can still land yellow attacks) the Wound Poison proc rate is very close to 100% (it did not proc on 2 attacks - 498/500 = 99.6% proc rate). It seems there is some small percentage of failure even on things that should otherwise be definite, though this is wild conjecture that can't be backed up by anything less than source code. Then again, I don't remember ever getting dodged when expertise capped, so there you go.

(Oh, I'd post pictures of the recounts of these runs, but as the client crashes I lose the ability to take a snapshot, and the data is lost, so I had to copy the data down.)

Are the tooltips on the PTR not properly updating to reflect AP as they do on live?

Nope, PTR tooltips correctly show AP scaling, and match the actual damage done.

Did you have any that logged as resisted instead of a "missed"? Still an obscenely low rate, but it's good to nail down the details if we can.

Does this effectively change the EP value of raw AP vs AGI? Does this means AP is 1.2 and AGI is 2.0 now?

I am trying to figure out if this is just an initial oversight or the limitation of the rumored new Glyph.

Glyph of Hunger For Blood *new* -- Increases the bonus damage from Hunger For Blood by 1% per application.

The new HfB is rumored to read - Hunger For Blood (Tier 11) changed to: Enrages you, increasing all damage caused by 15%. Requires a bleed.

1. Why would they identify the HfB Glyph per application, if it can only be applied once?
2. If in 3.0.9 you can apply HfB 3 times... then should the Glyph read 3% or will it only be 1% extra?
3. Either way you put it is it reasonable that this Glyph will exist?

There has been a blue post clearing this up. The glyph will increase HfB with 3%, as it is not a stacking buff anymore.

GC has commented on this and said that the glyph should be 3% increase to hfb.

EDIT: Was too late, nvm

I found the last statement interesting. Does this mean you can switch to assassination (pre agro), cast HFB, cast a 5 second talent change, then open on the boss? Thats just one example, what about every other spec specific buff?

The mob has to have a bleed effect on it to cast HfB.

I think I'm going to find the new mechanic more annoying than the last, requiring a bleed on the target which will also require a new addon to monitor such a thing.
I worked up a mockup of what such a mod might look like. Why not make it passive :/

Armor Penetration is also less beneficial than haste especially for mutilate spec, and with the poison normalization haste takes a step forward well head of armor penetration for combat spec as well.

Beside the fact that you need a bleeding target to cast HfB (making precasting it before combat unlikely/impossible), on my paladin at least, switching specs completely drains my mana. My rogue hadn't copied over last i checked (and right now, it's stuck on "Retrieving character list"), so I can't verify that it zeroes out energy as well, but it seems likely.

Regardless, any way of using dual-specs to provide significant unintended buffs from one spec to another is likely to be fixed or prevented one way or another.

I should think the hfb button "greys out" when no bleeds are up on the taret, rendering such an addon unnecessary.

Nice gfx though!

On this topic, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they eventually worked up a way to remove all buffs you personally had cast when you switch specs, on yourself as well as others. It's a fair bit of added coding that isn't already there, I'm sure, but I'd love for them to put a stop from that right at the get-go. I don't want to see every single raid that's worth their salt having a priest respec every wipe to toss up spirit. That would get excessively annoying. "Ok guys, help me drop another lexicon, Bob noob'ed it up on the safety dance..."

Lexicons were removed from the respec process, and every priest gets Divine Spirit as a spell.