"Glyph of Backstab - Each time you Backstab, the duration of your Rupture on the target is extended 2 sec, up to a maximum of 6 sec."

I'm very interested in how long you can actually keep a rupture up with this?(could someone smarter then me do some math? LOL) And could Combat Daggers be a viable spec?

At a guess combat daggers will still not be viable, and this would be more of a way for muti rogues in 10 mans to keep rupture up and get the most out of HfB?

Backstab should have a pretty good chance to crit, would the reduced damage for the same energy be worth it for an extra 2-6 seconds seconds of +18% damage from all your abilities?

I haven't backstabbed in a while, so no idea how it compares to muti right now, any ideas?

Backstab still does not have any place as a cp builder in a mutilate build. It costs more (with muti glyph) than mutilate and does 60-70% of the mutilate damage and awards one less cp.

Hey guys love your forums! I must say i been reading you guys for a while now and have heavily contributed to my top dmg in raids!

Anyways i was intrigued by the backstab glyph and did some messing around on talents builds. I made 2 that i think are pretty good but hard to say which would be for raids. im not good on spreadsheets so asking for a quick glance and some roguecrafting.

Now this is assuming the glyph comes live with no changes and for combat spec the 10% haste on dodge is still 3 points and hasn't moved in tier.

Combat

Hi energy regen plus more damage CDs to play with
WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Rogue -> Talent Calculator

Sub

Hi burst damage and high survivability but i think will lack on the boss fights which honestly its why i'm there minus the fact i'm top in overall. ty FoK spam.... This spec im unsure of since there are so many ways to go in the other 2 trees.

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Rogue -> Talent Calculator

Of course it wouldn't be used as a combo builder, compared with the cp's and damage of mutilate it would be stupid, but in the event you find yourself with 3-4 combo points (reasonably likely) and only a few seconds uptime on rupture, with backstab doing 60-70% of mutilates damage, is it worth backstabbing once to get that last point or 2 and then refresh rupture back to full uptime to avoid the HfB dropping and needed to be re applied?

In theory that would equate to saving energy wouldnt it?

You could always refresh rupture with less combo points but that is less damage for each point and less time before needing to refresh it again.

Pretty obscure reason to put in glyph of backstab over any useful glyph though, it would seem as though backstab is still useless =(

That's not how HfB works. It works identically to Live (i.e. needs to be manually refreshed every 30 seconds). The only differences are that it's a single stack, and that your target has to be bleeding for you to use the ability.

Ahh, sorry, my mistake, evidently i need to check my facts =S

Hey Aldriana,
i would like to know which talentspec you used for the IP/IP/Evis build. Did you use Improved Eviscerate ?
Im generelly wondering where to get the 3 points for Improved Evis in a "IIV" build.

Thx so far

To clarify:

The concept of Proc Per Minute means that the chance to proc on a successful melee attack is a function of the weapon's speed. If say Berserking has a proc rate of 1.2PPM, then your chance to proc (unhasted) on any given landing attack is 1.2/(60/WeaponSpeed), or in words, the PPM divided by the number of swings you make in a minute. I believe that the chance to proc Berserking is effected (affected?) by haste effects, so your chance to proc goes down as you gain more haste but the average number of procs you get stays the same.

My data is showing that poison procs are normalized around the idea that they should have the 3.0.8 proc rate if you are using 1.4 speed weapons. This means that if you use Wounding Poison with a [Webbed Death] you will proc it on 50% of all landing attacks, and likewise will proc Instant Poison 20% of the time. When you use a weapon that is slower than 1.4, your proc chance goes up - [Sinister Revenge] will proc WP at 1.8/1.4*.5=64.29% and IP at 1.8/1.4*.2=25.7% chance. This goes up to using a 2.8 speed weapon - [Warglaive of Azzinoth] will proc WP at 2.8/1.4*.5=100% and IP at 2.8/1.4*.2=40% chance. This particular proc chance seems unaffected by haste, so the proc chance will not go down as you gain more haste, and the average number of procs you get increases.

I'm not sure about Mongoose or Berserking, but special attacks like Sinister Strike are procing poisons at a chance equal to white hit proc chance. A 2.8 speed mainhand will proc Wounding Poison at a 100% rate (minus some small percentage, my small test run of 500 hits showed 2 non-procs). Going dual IP with SR/WD for mutilate means that the mainhand will proc IP 25.7% of the time and the offhand will proc IP 20% of the time (not counting talents, multiply the chances by 1.5 to account for Improved Poisons, which is apparently currently broken).

The bottom line for the Combat spec is that you gain damage, period. If poison damage or the scaling coefficients haven't changed, then Wound Poison will still be the mainhand untalented poison of choice. This model also vastly prefers slower weapons in the main hand for several reasons: the number of Sinister Strikes you perform is independent of mainhand weapon choice, the damage of your Sinister Strike is higher with a slower weapon, and poisons will proc more often on Sinister Strike with a slower weapon. There is no upside to using a faster weapon in the mainhand that I can see. In the offhand, however, faster weapons will still be preferred. Other than Killing Spree you don't do any instant attacks with the offhand, so if you use WP or IP in the offhand the number of poison procs you have in a minute is independant of weapon speed. However, Combat Potency accounts for a large amount of your energy generation, so you will still want a very fast weapon in the offhand to proc it more often. Since you're using a fast weapon in the offhand, you will use Deadly Poison (a non-PPM effect that is already better than WP at its 3.0.8 proc rate) to complement it.

Minor detail: What are your premisses for disregarding Fan of Knives and Shiv as instant off hand attacks in this context?

My two cents on the Backstab discussion. I decided to try out a backstab build after picking up a Sinister Revenge just before the SnD increase. I attempted a Mutilate build first but found the rotation quite unappealing (I had been combat swords forever before now). By the speadsheet Mutilate was a slight increase over backstab but it was within a margin that I found acceptable 1-2%. The result I found was a very relaxed rotation with high damage from backstab, dreadfully low amount of rupture uptime and a solid amount of damage from wound poison on both weapons. After the SnD changes I ended up dropping relentless strikes to get vile poisons and saw a DPS increase on both the spreadsheet and in practice.

The glyph I think would help improve Rupture uptime that is as previously mentioned pretty abysmal. I am curious to see how the other changes affect this cycle.

The the build is really only challenged by low combo point generation.

Below are my WWS parses from the last few raids. Including a parse of patchwork kill with a 4899 dps from me.

Wow Web Stats