Are you quite sure the Shiv is a clear upgrade for a combat offhand? Cause I'm not. It seems like speed -- always potent there -- will be more so than ever. And given the minimal direct damage contribution from your OH and the nice but not exactly incredible stats upgrade (especially if you can't use all the expertise on the shiv), I would not be slightly surprised to see Webbed Death wielded over either.

I'll await the modelers confirmation, but we haven't seen a clear combat OH upgrade yet, I'm afraid.

That is a trend which has been going on since WotlK (and partially before that, using Apolyon as an example). The only 1.5 sword before ulduar is hailstorm, most other combat offhands (not including daggers) are also 1.5 or even slower speeds. Combining this with blizzard clearly not understanding how broken mutilate was (LPC) our weapons haven't been very well itemized as a whole.

Not only that but out of all the loot we've seen for PTR testing, we've seen 1 dagger, I am sure more loot is to be found still but...1 dagger is not promising.

As far as I know we didn't get to test the end bosses, which is where we would want our weapons to drop anyway.

Why do people keep complaining about 1.5 speed daggers in Ulduar? If the stats are better, and the damage range is better, a 1.5 speed dagger can easily outperform WD. You guys are making it sound like the class is unplayable without a 1.4 speed dagger (which is just not true). Sure, if DaggerA and DaggerB have the same item level, and one is 1.4 speed while the other is 1.5, the 1.4 speed dagger is preferable. But if they never made another 1.4 speed dagger in the rest of the Wrath raid instances, would you still be clinging to you WD as you battle Arthas? That's cool, keep your WD, I'll take that 200 dps 1.5 speed dagger.

Got on the PTR and tried out 51/13/7 w/o points in Imp SnD, figured I'd share my observations. A straight 20 minutes of testing on the test dummy and this is what I came up with.

The rotation is extremely tight. While the extended time on H4B + mutilate glyph certainly makes it possible on a test dummy, I have a feeling that in practice going with a point in Imp SnD is going to be a virtual necessity, especially if your not expertise capped (my live char is but ptr isn't). Any type of movement or loss of dps time can easily evolve into a rotational nightmare if your unprepared for it, or it's timed badly, especially if your the only source of a bleed. While raid buffs will help this situation (a lot more crit specifically) it still seems that attaining a stable 4+ cycle is difficult at best. It seemed like the best way to swing it was to play conservatively with your energy, pooling as much as possible. While the longer H4B time was helpful, if your the only bleed it takes a lot of planning to refresh it in the optimal timeframe (<2 seconds) without sacrificing SnD uptime. The obvious answer was to post a 1pnt rupture, but the loss of the RS proc hurts.

Hope this is helpful. I strongly suggest getting on the PTR and trying it for yourself if your debating going w/o the point in Imp SnD.

If it's barely possible to keep it up on the training dummy, then for all intents and purposes that should mean it's not a problem when you're in a raid. In 25 you aren't going to be the only bleed source (hunters are going to permanently have one up, for instance), and you'll generate a lot more energy from FA due to haste/crit being higher.

Without a point in Imp SnD, Ruthlessness is absolutely essential, I think. I'm pretty sure we drop TtT for Master Poisoner (as TtT is really pretty weak), and if we want Murder, just live without Fleet Footed. I mean, lets be clear: Fleet Footed is a nice talent to have, but the actual DPS increase on most fights simply isn't there. For most fights, simply enchanting Cat's Swiftness will result in overall higher DPS than dropping a legitimate DPS talent for Fleet Footed.

Not sure why, but when I log into the PTR the tool tip for Master Poisoner is not changed. Is this a bug or is it yet to be implemented?

Yet to be implemented. Current build precedes the latest patch notes.

Most of those fights you listed though, Imp. SnD or not isn't going to affect you. Maexxna, just Envenom right before wrap if you're low. Gluth and Anub, the vast majority of the time you're on the boss. Even Sarth 3d you have nearly 100% uptime for the first two drakes before taking portals (and that's the hard part anyways). Really only Malygos do you run into a lot of cycle issues based on Vortex

Even in most movement fights, we have a high percentage time on target. There are only a handful of fights where I'd suspect Imp. SnD would make a difference. Rather than optimize for the edge case fights, you should rather optimize for the majority of fights.

The worst that I could see happening with no SnD glyph and no Imp. SnD is that it will slightly reduce your rupture uptime. But it shouldn't ever cause you to drop SnD or HfB. Now whether or not the Rupture uptime loss is significant might be a point of discussion.