3.1 Rogue Changes - Early Preview - Page 93

kaojinn · 03/29/09, 6:35 PM

Has anyone run the numbers, or determined at what point it becomes better to begin switching to Terrorblade pieces? Just eyeballing the Terrorblade stats, each of them looks like (with proper gemming) they've got potentially better stat allocation than the 3 popular ilevel 226 leather "off set" pieces available. But at what point in BIS gearing does it become advantageous to break the T7 bonuses to pick up the T8 bonuses?

The first set bonus for T8 looks like its leveled mostly toward Mutilate rogues, but if the real world energy returns turn out to be really good, it may draw Combat rogues back into using Deadly Poison on their offhands again. By the time you have 4 pieces of terrorblade, hands down, massive upgrade. But I'm just wondering if I should wait til I have 2 pieces of terrorblade to break the 4pc set bonus of T7, or wait till I have 4 pieces. I'm coming from the perspective of 15/51/5 CQC with Chestguard of the Recluse as my offset piece.

Neto- · 03/29/09, 7:08 PM

For what it's worth, I'd think almost all rogue specs would use Deadly Poison now, since it's been buffed to 12% of AP instead of 8% per stack. And considering how close 4pc T7 is to 2pc T7 + 226 pieces, I'd imagine upgrading your T7 is a good idea, as long as you keep the 2pc and every other piece is 226+/T8. Of course, we'd have to wait until a 3.1 updated spreadsheet is available to be sure.

winst · 03/29/09, 8:17 PM

Originally Posted by Kalisia

I still dont see how Combat is that much higher then Mut in raid. Comparitively, on the heroic dummy, I'm seeing approx 300 more dps with mut then I am with combat. Im using a 51/13/7 mut build with SR/WD (instant/deadly), and a 4R/4E/CTTC rotation. For combat I used 7/51/13 with Greed/WD (deadly/wound) and a 4S/4R rotation. Is my combat cycle wrong ? or is it a different combat spec that is beating mut in raids ?

Sorry to jump back, but gin makes me forget that I ever actually posted. I'm not sure about you but I almost never get to use Killing Spree on test dummies as it warps me all over, and some of the key to combat's success is the snd/bf/ks burn (which kinda makes you feel like you're titans grip, for 2.5 seconds). Also, combat relies a fair amount more on armor debuffs than mutilate. There is no doubting that both specs are very close, I just feel in practice due to fight dynamics, combat will come out decently ahead, which I really don't see as a problem. Mutilate isn't really 'harder' to play, it's just a little more awkward in add situations.

This doesn't even consider that Savage Combat will pretty much become an absolutely essential raid buff so you'll always need someone to spec it.

Wookiechunks · 03/29/09, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by winst

Sorry to jump back, but gin makes me forget that I ever actually posted. I'm not sure about you but I almost never get to use Killing Spree on test dummies as it warps me all over, and some of the key to combat's success is the snd/bf/ks burn (which kinda makes you feel like you're titans grip, for 2.5 seconds). Also, combat relies a fair amount more on armor debuffs than mutilate. There is no doubting that both specs are very close, I just feel in practice due to fight dynamics, combat will come out decently ahead, which I really don't see as a problem. Mutilate isn't really 'harder' to play, it's just a little more awkward in add situations.

This doesn't even consider that Savage Combat will pretty much become an absolutely essential raid buff so you'll always need someone to spec it.

Plus, there is a discrepancy in DPS comparison if you're just DPSing the dummies with only self-buffs like poisons, buff food, flasks, etc. The specs scale differently in a raid situation with full buffs and such.

Originally Posted by winst

Sorry to jump back, but gin makes me forget that I ever actually posted.

god I lol'd

amafi · 03/30/09, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by winst

Sorry to jump back, but gin makes me forget that I ever actually posted. I'm not sure about you but I almost never get to use Killing Spree on test dummies as it warps me all over, and some of the key to combat's success is the snd/bf/ks burn (which kinda makes you feel like you're titans grip, for 2.5 seconds). Also, combat relies a fair amount more on armor debuffs than mutilate. There is no doubting that both specs are very close, I just feel in practice due to fight dynamics, combat will come out decently ahead, which I really don't see as a problem. Mutilate isn't really 'harder' to play, it's just a little more awkward in add situations.

This doesn't even consider that Savage Combat will pretty much become an absolutely essential raid buff so you'll always need someone to spec it.

Use the Thunder Bluff dummy.
Heroic dummy is out of range of all the others, and there's not a whole lot of people there most of the time unlike orgrimmar which tends to be fairly crowded.

Only issue is the lack of a nearby rogue trainer for talent respecs, but it's not a huge problem.

korendir · 03/31/09, 4:14 AM

am a new poster, but have been following this thread with great interest for quite some time.

my main's a priest, and my rogue alt hasnt been played a lot, so forgive any noobness on my part, as I have a few questions on post 3.1 pve dps. I'm also unable to log on to ptr, so have not been able to do any testing of my own.

1. are the "cookie-cutter" specs (mut , combat and hat) the best ways for speccing pve? I've been looking at some ass/combat specs (here) but am not sure if it is viable.

using ssas combo points (possible 3 cps with 1 ss crit) , with vitality and combat potency for faster regen, however it loses several critical late tree talents on both sides; anybody good at number crunching can help?

2. what glyphs should a combat spec use? i've tried all 3 specs in live, and much prefer the combat play-style (probably will have to try mut again after 3.1 after the hfb changes, but for now i'm sticking to combat). i'm leaning to ss glyph, rupture glyph, but am confused abt the 3rd glyph. should i use snd (though with 2 points in improve snd i dont see if this helps much), ks or adrenaline rush glyph, or even tott/fok glyphs.

3. will combat shiv be dead after the shiv nerf?

thanks in advance

Eggi · 03/31/09, 7:53 AM

Is there somewhere a blue response that the envenom glyphe was removed?

Because there is a comment at wowhead (Glyph of Envenom - Item - World of Warcraft) that it still exists.

Len · 03/31/09, 8:02 AM

Originally Posted by Eggi

Is there somewhere a blue response that the envenom glyphe was removed?

Because there is a comment at wowhead (Glyph of Envenom - Item - World of Warcraft) that it still exists.

It was removed from the PTR patch notes, and it's not on glyph seller on PTR. For all purposes, it's as it has never existed.

Eggi · 03/31/09, 8:32 AM

Originally Posted by Len

It was removed from the PTR patch notes, and it's not on glyph seller on PTR. For all purposes, it's as it has never existed.

Then it is somehow strange that it is still possible to be produced in 9733.

Aorin · 03/31/09, 8:44 AM

Originally Posted by Eggi

Then it is somehow strange that it is still possible to be produced in 9733.

Not entirely strange. Blizzard has often taken items out of the game by simply making them impossible to obtain. They are still a legitimate item in the item database, however. In this case, the glyph seems like it will not be able to be learned by Scribes and so there is no way for us to actually get it.

ArashikageClan · 03/31/09, 10:47 AM

Hello, I am a first time poster as well. It didn't seem overall clear to me if you folks knew, but someone did get the Envenom Glyph learned from one of the inscription books on the PTR. Last I checked, there were a ton going for 100g on the AH on the PVE server.

Not that I think it's going to be available when 3.1 goes live, just thought I would say you can get it for kicks right now.

Thanks for all the hard work.

molson · 03/31/09, 12:11 PM

Is there any way to make Fist/Sword work in 3.1? From what I've read, the addition of haste to LR makes it hard to free up any points for hybrid weapon specs. I've always been of the belief that you should spec into the best weapons you have (KT reach/hailstorm for me) and as my rogue is my alt, I have a hard time rolling on WD/SR (which I lost to a hunter in a pug =O) over the mains in my guild. My rogues armory The World of Warcraft Armory and I apologize for some of the terrible level 70 gear, I just dinged 80 a week ago

chalon · 03/31/09, 12:42 PM

You only have 1 free point in a single weapon combat spec. So you could put 1 point in Sword Spec, but for all intents and purposes it's not going to be practical to be dual weapon spec in 3.1. You could always buy an LPC off the AH until you get a better OH dagger.

Kilgore · 03/31/09, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by Zahra

I haven't been keeping up with 3.1 stuff lately but is Sr / Sr still the best for post 3.1? I just picked up my second SR mostly for pvp but wondering if its still better for pve.

I believe the current mutilate weapon layout would be: Slow(IP) / fast(DP)

because of the proc per minute change coming in 3.1.

I'm sure some more digging can comfirm/deny this.

amele · 03/31/09, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by Kilgore

I believe the current mutilate weapon layout would be: Slow(IP) / fast(DP)

because of the proc per minute change coming in 3.1.

I'm sure some more digging can comfirm/deny this.

Offhand is largely speed agnostic now, although all other itemisation being equal fast is still better*, currently the best itemised/budgeted dagger on live is slow (SR) but that is subject to change once 3.1 and ulduar releases. In either case, you want IP on your mainhand and for your mainhand to be your harder hitting dagger, regardless of speed.

*assumes IDN with talented Master Poisoner.