Rogue DPS Simulation Spreadsheet - Page 14

Sarlunas · 06/21/09, 7:47 PM

How would I go about adding an ability like EA to the sheet, or would this be prohibitively difficult? I'm trying to figure out if the EA glyph is at all viable for 10-man raiding without a Warrior. It would be a nice boost for windup and target switching but how would it perform over an entire fight? Would I use something like 3s2e5r? My napkinmath is not up to this.

I guess it's a longshot considering the value of the KSpree glyph but it really sucks to start off with a 6 sec EA, especially in 10-mans where the shorter fights/phases make the windup more significant.

krauz · 06/21/09, 8:08 PM

I see dps/points in the gear sheet, and also in the dps output. Both are different, do they change according to my gear?
Which ones should i use to compare gear?

Mavanas · 06/21/09, 8:22 PM

Yeah I think I had ptr stats for a few items. I found a couple more among weapons.

EA is not trivial to add, it's another finisher that has to be modeled separately.

Gear sheet has most recent dps/point estimates. DPS output does not have updated mutilate dps/point estimates. Keep in mind dps/point estimates have about 0.05 standard error in that despite 10000 iterations I used to estimate them.

Ticia · 06/22/09, 12:42 AM

I can also confirm the murder is not applying to the crit multiplier anymore. I just tested a few times on the Unbound Seers directly below Dalaran. I had Murder and Lethality but no RED or AP procs of any kind.

First against a Level 78 one:

6/21 21:23:06.875  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF13000828E5D0E7D,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1
6/21 21:23:06.937  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF13000828E5D0E7D,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1,1135,0,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
...
6/21 21:23:17.187  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF13000828E5D0E7D,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1
6/21 21:23:17.312  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF13000828E5D0E7D,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1,493,0,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
...
6/21 21:23:27.375  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF13000828E5D0E7D,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1
6/21 21:23:27.703  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF13000828E5D0E7D,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1,493,0,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
...
6/21 21:23:37.593  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF13000828E5D0E7D,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1
6/21 21:23:37.859  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF13000828E5D0E7D,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1,493,0,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil
...
6/21 21:23:47.921  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF13000828E5D0E7D,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1
6/21 21:23:48.093  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF13000828E5D0E7D,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1,1135,0,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
...
6/21 21:23:58.171  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF13000828E5D0E7D,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1
6/21 21:23:58.312  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF13000828E5D0E7D,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1,1135,0,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil
...
6/21 21:24:08.421  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF13000828E5D0E7D,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1
6/21 21:24:08.765  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF13000828E5D0E7D,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1,494,0,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil

So a non-crit value of somewhere between 493 and 494, with a crit value of 1135 = 2.3*(493.478)

Then against a level 79 version of the same mob:

6/21 21:24:58.953  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF53000828E533397,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1
6/21 21:24:59.218  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF53000828E533397,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1,1124,0,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil

6/21 21:25:09.328  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF53000828E533397,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1
6/21 21:25:09.328  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF53000828E533397,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1,489,0,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil

6/21 21:25:19.781  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF53000828E533397,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1
6/21 21:25:19.781  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF53000828E533397,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1,1124,0,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil

6/21 21:25:31.000  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF53000828E533397,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1
6/21 21:25:31.406  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF53000828E533397,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1,1124,0,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil

6/21 21:25:41.328  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF53000828E533397,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1
6/21 21:25:41.328  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF53000828E533397,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1,489,0,1,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil

6/21 21:25:51.562  SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF53000828E533397,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1
6/21 21:25:51.562  SPELL_DAMAGE,0x02000000009A2833,"Ticia",0x511,0xF53000828E533397,"Unbound Seer",0x10a48,1776,"Gouge",0x1,1124,0,1,0,0,0,1,nil,nil

So a non-crit value of 489 with a crit value of 1124 = 2.3*(488.696)

Mavanas · 06/23/09, 5:14 PM

After making the changes to crit multipliers and murder the dps table has changed a bit:

Tree		Spec	DPS	Special Notes
vHaT (1 c/s)	8/20/43	7810	ArPen gems, AG food, MR+DMC:G
Combat		7/51/13	7741	ArPen gems and food, CT+MR
Combat		15/51/5	7753	ArPen gems and food, CT+MR
Combat		18/51/2	7762	ArPen gems and food, eviscerate finisher, CT+MR
Mutilate	51/7/13	7698	Exp capped (from gear), hit cap, AG gems up to crit cap, then AP, DM+CT
Mutilate	51/13/7	7719	Exp and hit capped (from gear), AG gems up to crit cap, then AP, DM+CT
Mutilate	51/13/7	8064	Murder

Combat in BiS gear is slightly ahead of mutilate.

In addition to BiS gear, I did some analysis of BbH (Best before Hard modes) gear, which is more applicable to the majority of rogue population. The dps table for BbH gear looks like this:

Tree		Spec	DPS	Special Notes
vHaT (1 c/s)	8/20/43	7208	AG gems and food, DMC:G+GT
Combat		7/51/13	7027	ArPen gems and food, DMC:G+GT
Combat		15/51/5	7023	ArPen gems and food, DMC:G+GT
Combat		18/51/2	7033	ArPen gems and food, DMC:G+GT
Mutilate	51/7/13	7210	Hit cap from gear, AG gems and food, DMC:G+BotOG
Mutilate	51/13/7	7183	Hit cap from gear, AG gems and food, DMC:G+BotOG
Mutilate	51/7/13	7487	Murder

At that level, mutilate pulls ahead by a sizeable margin. vHaT has higher dps with agility gems. Gemming for agility and ArPen gives almost equal dps output for combat. Also interestingly, 51/7/13 outdpses 51/13/7. The difference is significant at 10% confidence level.

The BbH gear list for Combat and Mutilate obtained using the simulation is given below:

Combat					Mutilate
Insanity's Grip				Daschal's Bite
Golem-Shard Sticker			Golem-Shard Sticker
Giant's Bane				Siren's Cry
Conqueror's Terrorblade Helmet		Conqueror's Terrorblade Helmet
Favor of the Dragon Queen		Favor of the Dragon Queen
Conqueror's Terrorblade Pauldrons	Conqueror's Terrorblade Pauldrons
Drape of the Deadly Foe			Drape of the Deadly Foe
Winter's Icy Embrace			Conqueror's Terrorblade Breastplate
Mechanist's Bindings			Mechanist's Bindings
Conqueror's Terrorblade Gauntlets	Conqueror's Terrorblade Gauntlets
Relic Hunter's Cord			Death-warmed Belt
Conqueror's Terrorblade Legplates	Conqueror's Terrorblade Legplates
Footpads of Silence			Footpads of Silence
Loop of the Agile			Loop of the Agile
Cindershard Ring			Godbane Signet
Darkmoon Card: Greatness		Darkmoon Card: Greatness
Grim Toll				Blood of the Old God

Ticia · 06/23/09, 5:26 PM

It's a minor point (and probably doesn't change the rankings at all), but [Loop of the Agile] is from 10 Man Hard-Mode Iron Council, so probably shouldn't be in your "Best before Hard modes" gear set.

Mavanas · 06/23/09, 5:36 PM

Good point, I am guessing the replacement will be Metallic Loop of the Sufferer for mutilate and Band of Draconic Bile
or Godbane Signet for combat, depending on amount of expertise in BbH gear.

strawberryfm · 06/24/09, 6:42 AM

Any chance you could include a non ArP combat simulation in your next go around? It is of interest if you're main specc is going to be mutilate without losing the flexibility to be able to go combat when needed.

Thanks for the informative simulation summaries so far, keep up the good work

Blizisyimhot · 06/24/09, 3:22 PM

Please also add [Magnetized Projectile Emitter] to the next version.

Mavanas · 06/24/09, 5:15 PM

Sure, I'll add it. If it did not have a socket, it would be trivial to add yourself, just insert a row and enter the stats. But socketed item also require some work at the bottom of the gear sheet.

As for non ArP setup and any other tweaks to BiS setups, you should be able to run it yourself. From memory though, combat BbH with agility gems was only 30 dps below.

Jeppathum · 06/24/09, 5:58 PM

I'm intrigued by your best before hard mode set, is there really no cloak upgrade in Ulduar? According to Aldrianna's mutilate sheet Drape of the Faceless General would be the only one, but if you think it's not as good, then you're probably right.

• Aldriana · 06/24/09, 6:28 PM

Drape of the Faceless General is from Vezax 10 Hard, thus is excluded from the best before hard mode upgrade list. Drape of Icy Intent is similarly an upgrade over the KT cloak, but is, again, from a hard mode (Hodir 25 Hard). If you're going to exclude all hard mode loot, then yes, KT cloak is probably the best option.

Of course, one can debate to what extent a "best before hard mode" list actually makes sense, as, for instance, many of the 10-man hard modes (and even some of the 25 man ones, at this point) are probably easier to kill than Yogg 25. So I personally disagree with the premise of the list, though given said premise it looks more or less correct if less than wholly useful.

Mavanas · 06/24/09, 6:53 PM

Don't read too much into it, it's just an easy to define dividing line. While I agree most people will see some 10-man hard mode loot before 25 man Yogg, it will really depend on their raiding schedules and quality of their groups. In my personal case, we just did out first 10 man hardmodes last week and are still working on 25 man Yogg, but we are very close. So I would not say it's totally out of order.

Jeppathum · 06/25/09, 5:52 AM

I didn't realise that cloak was from hard mode, I'll need to update my list. My raid group, and I suspect many others, are working on the 25 man content, we have killed mimiron twice but haven't had time to try the general yet, and we aren't going to be spending time learning hard modes until we have killed everything on normal mode, so to me this is the most useful list.

Tofuu · 06/29/09, 6:34 PM

I have a question regarding serrated blade in my 51/7/13 build. can you please tell me where I can find infos regarding what percentage of dps increase does 3/3 of this talent provide? Assuming fully raid armor debuff (sunder+FF).

if You don't consider dark matter as the choice of your trinket, would 51/7/13 outperform 51/13/7 by a significant margin? (not within RNG variance)