Are there any plans to fix the problem with iterations with GO Open Office, whenever you run dps sims you just get the same number over and over again. I might be doing something wrong or If there was a work-around it would be very nice, because I have not been able to theory-craft correctly for weeks now being this is the only sheet with weapon-swapping mut that I know of.

As far I know GO OpenOffice is a fan project aimed at enhancing open office by adding support for VBA among other things. I personally do not have any experience working with GO OpenOffice and apparently the support they added for VBA is not complete or is bugged. It is currently not on my to-do list to add support for GO Openoffice. If someone else has experience with both Excel and GO Openoffice and wants to make a fan update of the simsheet that would work in GO, feel free to do so; however I will not take any responsibility for it.

Hmm ok. I have no idea how any of the spreadsheet stuff really works or what macros really do so I didn't know which side of the problem was the problem. At least next patch we won't have to worry about weapon-swapping anymore.

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but with weapon swapping you also benefit from 3 stacks of moongoose/berserking, and if you also start swapping your mainhand that will mean you'll benefit from 4 stacks of moongose/berserking, am i right?

Yes it's possible. We talked about it before. But in light of the PTR changes, I am not going to make any improvements to the weapon swapping module. In fact I am finishing a 3.3 version of the spreadsheet with all the new gear but without weapon swapping.

As for both hand swapping, the idea is to swap both mainhand and offhand weapons at once, and have DP on both swap-in weapons, so that DP is restacked faster and the only real cost is a potential loss of MH poison proc while refreshing DP. There is no additional swing reset when you swap two weapons at the same time. At least two factors that are not modeled in the spreadsheet can make it better. First is the one you are bringing up, a chance for an extra weapon enchant proc. Second is that you can use a fast weapon as MH swap weapon and avoid using any combo point building moves while DP is restacking. This technique could potentially increase your dps by restacking DP faster and by avoiding some of white damage lost.

Does the gemming for mutilate BIS, still hold true?

So I got a friend's laptop to run the simulation and I was searching for the best ruptureless non weapon swapping spec. When disabling the use of Rupture I get 1 % dps increase as a result. I ran this more than once to make sure there was no mistake with my configurations.

So could this be true? I thought the DPE of Rupture would not be beaten until weapon swapping or 3.3 but the simulation shows otherwise. Can this be correct and I would actually be doing more dps just leaving rupture out?

It can be true even without weapon swapping. Envenom-only cycles pull ahead when the value of the envenom buff increases enough. That happens when more of your attacks start landing, in other words when you pick up enough hit and haste gear.

I can't say that I have a bunch of hit and/or haste.

I jost got the poison hit cap (237 rating) and got 323 haste. To me these numbers do not seem to favor Envenom a lot.

I always thought the DPE of Rupture was so good that without weapon swapping it would always be ahaed of Envenom.

Sadly I can't compare the results with any other tool. Ald's spreadsheet doesn't have the options and I get weird results when using the simcraft tool.

I will be testing 51/13/7 ruptureless now but I was just wondering whether you thought this should be correct despite having low hit and moderate haste.

It is not as simple as comparing the DPE of the two moves because finishers is only a tiny portion of your energy's use. So if you improve the effeiciency of your finisher, you cannot use the saved energy to do that many more of that efficient finisher. If you save energy on efficient finishers, you end up adding more cycles consisting of inefficient in terms of DPE mutilates and a finisher, envenom or rupture depending on the situation.

Since I am lazy to look up your gear, I am going to give you an example with what I have in the simsheet right now. Looking at the simsheet backup sheets, in a five minute fight with a rupture rotation, you can land somewhere around 17 ruptures and 25 envenoms. Alternatively you can land around 41 envenoms in an envenom-only cycle. In a rupture cycle you also get enough energy to do 4 mutilates to support the extra finisher with combo points. Since mutilating till 5 combo points is not optimal for mutilate, you end up doing 4+ cycles, which results in approximately 4.5 combo point finishers. So the first combination costs you 310 energy in finishers and 220 energy for the extra mutilates and does 426k damage from finishers and 23k damage from the extra mutilates.

Alternatively if you drop rupture, you just do 41 envenoms that costs you same 530 energy and does 449k damage. So in this example, direct damage in both scenarios is the same, but the envenom-only scenario has the advantage of a higher envenom uptime, so it easily comes out ahead.

Mavanas, you mentioned some time ago that the swapped offhand is assumed to be the same as the normal offhand, does this include enchants?

I wonder, since atm I'm getting the best results from using Mongoose MH, Berserking OH.

Is this because the simulator accounts for the possibility of 2 berserking buffs from the offhands?

Is there any way to calculate the ep values of stats using the simsheet? I have been trying to figure out exactly what haste would be worth for me, because on the regular spreadsheet says its worth 1.74 which is very high but I know would be higher then that for the mutilate weapon swap spec.

Hi Mavannas,

I was wondering if could help me model the Shard of the Crystal Heart in the your simulator if possible? {I noticed that you are using that in your combat spec...I assume because of Wpn Swapping?). Due to bad luck with Death's Verdict, I'm still using DMC-G and the Mark of Supremacy. I thought I read though that the the MoS came out ahead EP wise somewhere, but I can't remember for sure. Regardless, I wanted to test it out.
Thanks,

I've searched the thread for this, so hopefully it hasn't been asked already: is it possible to let the sheet use a different offhand weapon for DP and WP/IP?

I'm asking because my two current 1.4 daggers for weapon swapping are Stygian Bladebreaker (heroic, 258), and Stygian Bladebreaker (normal, 245). I'm trying to figure out whether it would be worth it to weapon swap with those (keeping the 258 version with Wound on it, obviously), or just keep the 258 and use it normally without weapon swapping.

No it's not implemented to let you have different offhands. People have asked many times for this, but it's just not worth the effort at this point. I am pretty sure if you have access to 258 gear and you have a raid with full buffs, it's going to be worth it to weapon swap using 258 dagger as wound and 245 dagger as DP.

Crystal Shard will require more than a trivial change because it deals with haste. I will try to get to it when I have a bit of free time. I am personally using it for a slightly different reason. First of all the EP of haste is around that of AP, so either trinket should give a similar result. However, I am also an engineer and I am using hyperspeed on cooldown, so what Crystal Shard does is it levels off the spikes in haste so I can use a single setting such as 4 seconds in the swap macro. If there are big spikes in haste, it would be optimal to shorten the swap back time when haste spikes up, but it's impossible to do if you are using the swap macros. So instead I am evening out my haste buffs and using the 4 second macro.

It's also possible to calculate EP values in the simsheet, but it takes half a day to do it, so I would not advise. It is not intended for a regular user to be able to calculate the EP values using the simsheet. If you still want to do it, I gave an explanation about EP calculation not so long ago, so you can find it in this thread.

Thanks Mavanas...that being said, just so I understand you correctly, how much time do you allow to elapse before you pop the trinket? I am typically waiting 10 seconds into the fight or so (when I have SnD up) before I use the Hyperspeed Accelerator's. Would you recommend waiting 30 seconds to elapse before you use the trinket and go from there to maximize uptime? Are you using the Weapon Swapping Addon or the Blizz UI Macro (I wasn't sure what you were referring to when you say the 4 sec macro unless it was the latter?). I'm also a Troll, so I also have the Troll Berserking Racial .... that even further complicates the rotation. Do you have any suggestions on a rotation? In this case, do you think it would be advantageous to stick with the MoS since I have the troll racial to even out the haste spikes (granted it's a 3 minute CD compared to 2minutes on trinket?)

It seems to me that the cause of the huge patch3.3 theoretical mutilate numbers is the synergy between new Deadly Poison and Master Poisoner. Have you tried testing a hypothetical Combat spec with Master Poisoner (if MP got moved to tier 1 or 2 in the tree, allowing Combat to access it, and thus use Envenom)? I'm aware that it's a relatively pointless exercise but would be interesting to see what dps an Envenom based Combat cycle with Master Poisoner would do.

(I apologise if this post was supposed to be in "incoming rogue changes" topic)

Well you can test it yourself now. I have released a 3.3 version which has all the new changes.
- I have entered all the new items discovered to date but if you find new items please send me a pm and I will incorporate them in later versions.
- There are two items that I have not modeled yet due to lack of proc data: Whispering Fanged Skull and Deathbringer's Will. If you find out their internal cooldowns and proc chances, let me know. Also for Deathbringer's Will we need to find out if the choice of the proc type is absolutely random or if it depends on your class or stats.
- I have a model of Black Bruise proc, but it remains to see if the proc damage can crit and if it is subject to further buffs, such as spell damage buffs.
- 3.3a has the same nice features as the latest 3.2.2e. It runs 50% faster and it has a more user friendly system of activating socket bonuses and adding new gear.
- I have also simplified the presets for specs. Now there are only two types of dps rules: combat and mutilate. If you want to further specify subrules, such as no rupture or different combo point rules, you should change those manually. All talent specs have been updated to 3.3 standards, removing rupture from most of them and glyphing and talenting eviscerate for combat. Also murder is part of every mutilate spec now.
- new 3.2.2e version now has Heart of the Crystal Shard as well. Incidentally it appears to be superior to Mark of Supremacy in 3.3.

All the links are on the front page. Keep in mind that 3.3a is a beta version and it may have data entry errors. if you find any errors or calculation bugs, please let me know. Enjoy your 3.3 theorycrafting!

I did some tests with the new sheet regarding the best combat gems. Gear I used was my current live gear: character planner . 3.3 . chardev seven

gemming for hit in yellow until you reach the hit cap, ap in red and hit food results in 10362 dps. The problem I see here is, that we have to be viable to play both, mutilate and combat, and gemming hit for mutilate is quite stupid. So I tested it again with ap gems in red and everything else except yellow and in yellow I gemmed ap/haste. It was 28 dps behind. I know, 28 dps is still a lot but I think we don't have a choice here. The gap between mutilate and combat single target dps is still too much.

Is 3.3a 26.7 MB? I wanted to make sure before I enable macros...

Yes it's 26.7Mb.

Natox those observations remind me of the results I was getting in 3,2 with weapon swapping. Hit was slightly ahead for combat, but ap and ap/haste gemming worked best for mutilate and reasonably well for combat, so it seemed like optimal strategy for gemming gear that can be used for both specs.

But when I was comparing hit and haste for 3.3 combat in ilvl 264 gear it seemed to me that haste gemming worked better than hit gemming even for combat. In fact haste was slightly ahead of AP even, so in particular Shard of the Crystal Heart beat MoS. At the same time, with ilvl 264 gear, I still end up using a few ap/hit gems for both specs either to reach the poison hit cap or to overcome the crit cap.

Mavanas that sounds very interesting but shouldn't be a problem to play both specs since haste is also good for mutilate with the upcoming changes. Of course haste is inferior to ap but you have to look which spec you have to play in most of the fights in ICC.

I also noticed that Engineering is 70 dps better than BS even without Saronite Bombs (100 dps with Saronite Bomb). Furthermore I changed the combat dps strat to the usual combat cycle with rupture. 4s/5r/5e increased my dps by another 100. Didn't you change that because of the heavy arp on the ilvl 264 items?