I'm posting this about a potential bug in the simulator. I'm using a 51 13 7 mut rotation with swapping that is ruptureless. Placing a talent point in vigor results in a very large dps loss. Most of the pre averaged DPS values are around 9000, as expected, however about 25% are around 4000, which makes no sense. Note that I did not change the pooling values at all. Glyphing vigor did not help/made it worse. Did I miss something?

Hey Mavanas... I do have some weird issues. Last night I got the new 2.2b version of the sheet, plugged my gear to test how good weapon swapping will be for t9 evisc-only setup. I did a run, saved dps, and decided to just run simulation again to see if I will get same dps. The difference was 230 dps down. Tried 4 times in total and 2 of the tries got over 200 dps difference, the other 2 - barely 5. Calculation is looking strange too - it is random at the start, the current dps, then, about 60% and up it starts going towards some number. For example it is floating about 8900 dps, then at 60% starts going towards 9200 with exactly 1 dps on each iteration. Have seen the other case too - from 9300 to go to almost 9000 with exactly 1 dps down each try after 60%. Have you seen such thing?

combat provides 4% physical dmg buff as well, which is not to laugh at, at least in 10 mans.

The only thing this reminds me of is the 2003 bug with RAND function in excel. See if this post helps you.

If you are using 500+ iterations, your dps from try to try should not change by more than 20. More likely it will be within 10. So if you are seeing 230 dps changes, there is definitely something going wrong with either your version of Excel or your version of the spreadsheet. If reading that post does not help, I can try to download your version of the spreadsheet and see for myself. You'd need to share it somewhere.

I am having a hard time understanding why -Deaths Verdict/Mark of Supremacy- is coming out 41DPS higher than running -Deaths Verdict/Darkmoon Greatness-
Is it the massive amount of hit on M.O.S that outwieghs DMC's stats and proc? But with the 2min cooldown on M.O.S I would think DMC would come out ahead.
I ran into this prob before getting Deaths Verdict also---Why does M.O.S come out ahead of Pyrite Infusor? Is it the hit again outwieghing the AP and uptime that P.I. has?

I would really appricate any light you can shine on this. And keep up the Awsome work!!!

--Also all these numbers are using your spreadsheet uding a ruptureless Muti weapon swap cycle.

The World of Warcraft Armory

Depending on your gear, it's easily possible that MOS is better than DCG. Not accounting for synergies, DCG is about 190 agility. MOS is 129 hit and 174 AP. If you have weapon swapping and you are in BiS gear, 129 hit is worth 220 dps, and 174 AP is 173 dps, for a total of 393 dps. DCG's 190 AG is worth 372 dps. So there is an example where DCG is easily behind MOS. Plus, if you are mutilate and gem for agility, then you will probably hit the crit cap if you wear both DV and DCG, so that's a reason number 2 why DCG is a worse option.

Hello Mavans, read through the last 4~ pages and been testing the whole weapon swapping thing and finding it working out quite well. One question though, when do you swap them exactly? I've been doing it at 4-5 seconds remaining on DP, if I wait till 3 I end up loosing it roughly 1/6 of the time. Do you suggest having the IP OH equiped during the Envenom buff? Say I have 5-6 seconds left on DP, and 2-3 seconds left on SnD, I would envenom with IP OH untill 3-4 seconds DP correct, at which point I would switch to DP untill it applies, then back to IP?

Also the following items are missing off your spreadsheet,
Orcish Deathblade and the alliance version, Dirk of the Night watch. Drops from Lord Jaraxxus in toc10 (as well as heroic versions)
Vest of Shifting Shadows/Armor of Shifting Shadows. Twins toc10 (as well as heroic versions)

This is to Mavanas, had a couple questions for you that i could not quite understand myself. I pulled up an Armory on you the other day when you were running in your Mut spec.

I pretty much figured you were running with the Runestone due to your high hit rating, what i didn't understand was your Expertise. On one instance i pulled your armory you were running with 13 expertise and another you were running with 9.

Has something changed with the importance of Expertise to Mutilate? With or without Rupture i was under the impression that you still needed it to be capped or near cap to prevent envenom from being dodged and snd falling off and wasting energy.

If you were just running this gear and stat setup for testing then disregard.

On a personal note with me i tried running the wep swap-ruptureless mut and the mechanics behind it i found way to "clunky" to be optimal for me in my role with my guild on the fights we are working on, so i went back to the 51/13/7 spec, still running ruptureless. My question here is if i should swap all my yellow gem slots back from agi/haste to agi/crit, i actually like the haste, just trying to find the best dps setup possible. Thanks for your answers in advance, feel free to armory me and let me know.

Great post, let's break it down.

1. My personal spec has nothing to do with what's optimal for you.
2. Nothing changed about the importance of expertise. If it shows as a suboptimal spec, it is that.
3. Clunky is the word of the day, BUT if you manage to live with it, you might be able to beat your guildmate rogues by 500 dps.

Without Regemming Ap/Haste (Currently have Agi and Agi/Crit) Would a 51/18/2 still be better than 51/13/7? If using the weapon swap? Will be using Norm Twin Spike MH/Heroic Steel Bladebreaker OH and Switching to another Norm Twin Spike with IP to OH.

Never had 4pc T8 and at this point have quit trying to obtain it. But I am getting 245/258 pieces already, and would like to go ruptureless. Not sure if the spec's are set up in the SIM sheet already, or if I'm messing up the settings but trying a Rupture Less rotation with or without weapon swapping seems to show up as 1k DPS less than using a rupture rotation. Same gear/enchants. Which doesn't seem right. As with my current gear and no Blood Splatter talent Envenom is already outscaling Rupture unbuffed.

Holding off on regemming AP as I may go combat if I ever get a MH and will have to regem then anyway.

Edit: Manually re entered my stuff and running now. Now it's showing a 1-1.3k DPS upgrade. Running a few to see difference between 51/18/2 and 51/13/7

Edit 2: With my gear/gemming it's showing 51/13/7 is ~40DPS more than 51/18/2 even going ap and ap/haste gems so guess I'll stick with it for now. Done raiding for the week so won't be able to actually test it until later.

I found a bit of Stuff to add to the Spreadsheet:
Bloodfang mask (10 man Onyxia)
Shard of the Crystal Heart (50 Triumph emblems)
Cloak of the Silver Covenant (alliance)/ Cloak of Serrated Blades (horde) (10 man 45 attempt Tribute Chest drops)
Thanks for all the hard work on this