Rogue DPS Simulation Spreadsheet - Page 32

Sabrelime · 11/03/09, 3:43 PM

Your also forgetting combat gets an automatic 4% damage increase.

Mavanas · 11/04/09, 12:20 AM

Also when replicating mutilate, don't forget the simsheet assumes you are using vanish with garrote offensively. First vanish is done as soon as overkill buff runs out and conditions for a garrote are satisfied.

siralop · 11/04/09, 2:31 AM

Would it be possible to add the 10 man tribute cloak to the list, as I am trying to decide whether the Heroic Cloak of the Untamed Predator or the Cloak of Serrated Blades, is better for 51/18/2 with weapon-swapping

My simple assumption is that the Untamed Predator cloak would be worth the stat loss due to the fact that it has haste, and weapon swapping mutilate benefits very well from haste

theminor · 11/04/09, 8:16 AM

Originally Posted by Istaril

It could be as simple as you having murder selected as a talent; the combat dummies are not murderable but the spreadsheet will list DPS assuming the target is murderable. Other assumptions the spreadsheet makes; like the uptime of turn the tables; may similarly be false in your case.

Your tests might also be quite biased by buffs/debuffs on the mob (are you fighting a dummy that has no one else attacking it?), length of tests, accurate glyphing... mistakes entering your gear/enchants etc in the spreadsheet. On the whole dummy-tests aren't considered very reliable evidence of anything.

Also when replicating mutilate, don't forget the simsheet assumes you are using vanish with garrote offensively. First vanish is done as soon as overkill buff runs out and conditions for a garrote are satisfied.

Thanks these are quite helpful and probably where the discrepancy lies.

Mavanas · 11/04/09, 9:20 AM

Originally Posted by siralop

Would it be possible to add the 10 man tribute cloak to the list, as I am trying to decide whether the Heroic Cloak of the Untamed Predator or the Cloak of Serrated Blades, is better for 51/18/2 with weapon-swapping

My simple assumption is that the Untamed Predator cloak would be worth the stat loss due to the fact that it has haste, and weapon swapping mutilate benefits very well from haste

3.2.2c has it. Make sure you have the latest version.

Zky · 11/04/09, 12:20 PM

Excuse my slight ignorance however - I cannot seem to get macros working without a scripting error in the 3.2.2c spreadsheet. I am using openoffice, as I do not have access to Microsoft Office at this point in time. So I decided to try to kill two birds with one stone and ask the question here, and hopefully find someone with the same macro issue.

I have been taking a gander at the Mutilate cycle analysis thread in hopes of getting a more firm understanding of how(if) the 3.2 cycle has changed and how it changes relative to gear. Right now weapon swapping isn't an option for me, as I don't have a firm grasp on it nor do I have the required gear for it. I would just to know that if the same guidelines stated in the pocket guide thread still apply, or is rupture-less the way to go, regardless of having T9/9.5.

As I said, I attempted to model these scenarios, unfortunately my office isn't allowing me to do so or I'm doing something direly wrong. I appreciate the work you all have put into the community to help keep rogues educated.

sinapse · 11/04/09, 4:58 PM

Requirements: Excel 2003 or later. Only tested in Windows OS. Prior versions of Excel are not advisable due to deficient RNG.
If you are using release version of Excel 2003, you might have to run a hotfix to RNG available here: The RAND function returns negative numbers in Excel 2003.
The file does not work in Standard Open Office, but works in GO Open Office.

From the front page.

Milou · 11/04/09, 5:01 PM

Testing Mongoose on the sheet and it does not affect the crit cap though trinket procs are being calculated. Cell C7 has the current crit, adding to the trinket procs and appending the mongoose procs fixed that. I assume this should be in there as standard.

Original

($U$217*$E$217+$U$228*$E$228+$U$229*$E$229)

Updated for Mongoose

($U$217*$E$217+$U$228*$E$228+$U$229*$E$229+$E245*$U245+$E247*$U247)

Also in regards to [Cloak of Serrated Blades] ([Cloak of the Silver Covenant]) in 3.2.2c I'm not seeing it there either in the copy I just download today.

siralop · 11/04/09, 6:05 PM

Originally Posted by Mavanas

3.2.2c has it. Make sure you have the latest version.

I just tried downloading the latest version but I still can't seem to find the cloak.

Zky · 11/04/09, 6:44 PM

Originally Posted by sinapse

Requirements: Excel 2003 or later. Only tested in Windows OS. Prior versions of Excel are not advisable due to deficient RNG.
If you are using release version of Excel 2003, you might have to run a hotfix to RNG available here: The RAND function returns negative numbers in Excel 2003.
The file does not work in Standard Open Office, but works in GO Open Office.

From the front page.

I appreciate you pointing out to me.

Dazink · 11/05/09, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Mavanas

I pulled out some numbers that can help you decide. I am constantly updating my cheatsheet for choosing swap out offhands, but it's not in a shape yet to make it usable for everyone. Here are some numbers from it though:
1. The cost of 0.1 speed for IP dagger is 38 dps
2. The cost of 0.1 speed for DP dagger is 150 dps
3. The uptime of IP dagger is 76%, the uptime of the DP dagger is 24%

So first thing is that you definitely want a fast dagger as DP offhand. Second, by using Twin Spike instead of Steel Breaker in main hand you lose only about 40 dps in BiS gear. At the same time using the DotNW in main hand is about 200 dps loss. Finally, using regular Dirk over heroic Steelbreaker as DP offhand is about 40 dps loss.

All in all, i'd say two choices seem about equal:
- MH Steel, IP OH Steel, DP OH DotNW
- MH Twin Spike, IP OH Steel, DP OH Steel

I'd personally go with the second one because I don't know about you, but I am using the Outfitter script to swap and I am not so sure it reliably swaps my offhands at 3 seconds remaining, which would ensure low uptime of the DP dagger. For me I set the Outfitter to 5 seconds and because of lag it ends up swapping some timebetween 2 and 4 seconds. If you set it to a higher swap time, the cost of using ilvl232 DP dagger instead of an ilvl258 dagger will go up.

I am actually in a different predicament. My MH is the 258 1.8speed. I have a fast 245 and a slow 245. I originally thought using the slow 245 for DP would be wise, but after reading this that does not seem so.

So the slower dagger for IP won't hurt focused attacks and IP procs as much as not getting the deadly stack I am guessing.

Mavanas · 11/05/09, 10:49 AM

Your situation fits case #3 here (Rogue DPS Simulation Spreadsheet). It's still on previous page.

About mongoose and crit cap, I did not include it there on purpose. I suppose you can add both mongooses up if you want to see the worst case scenario. However, the more procs you add to that, the less likely it is to see that scenario. Right now it's simply showing the trinket procs, so you know if some of your procs are wasted. Adding double mongoose to the crit cap indicator will probably make the cap number less informative if not misleading. Consider what happens if you have DCG, DC and double mongoose. Right now the indicator shows only the two trinket procs, so the uptime of that is probably around 15% (an educated guess). If you add double mongoose proc, which is independent of the trinket procs and has an uptime of about 30% for mutilate, then you will likely see a red flag that you are going over the crit cap, but you should know that you are only going over the crit cap during about 5% of the fight.

So I will think how to present the crit cap information better. Perhaps I can show several crit caps with and without the mongoose procs.

sp00n · 11/05/09, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Mavanas

So I will think how to present the crit cap information better. Perhaps I can show several crit caps with and without the mongoose procs.

I think showing exactly these 5% would be the best option.

Mavanas · 11/05/09, 12:15 PM

The problem with showing the uptimes is that to calculate them I need to use the simulation for every combination of trinket procs. Plus I need to use the simulation to find out the uptimes of 1 mongoose and 2 mongoose procs. Of course all these uptimes vary with spec and gear, so there is no easy loop back within the framework of the simsheet to automatically update the uptimes as you change your gear and specs.

If you think it's helpful, I can calculate these values once for mutilate BiS setup and then check that the values do not change drastically for combat (crit capping is more likely for mutilate since it favors agility gemming more).

sp00n · 11/05/09, 12:24 PM

Can you track it while running the simulation itself and display it just like the DPS value?