Rogue DPS Simulation Spreadsheet - Page 36

Sabrelime · 11/20/09, 9:21 PM

Are there any plans to fix the problem with iterations with GO Open Office, whenever you run dps sims you just get the same number over and over again. I might be doing something wrong or If there was a work-around it would be very nice, because I have not been able to theory-craft correctly for weeks now being this is the only sheet with weapon-swapping mut that I know of.

Mavanas · 11/20/09, 9:37 PM

As far I know GO OpenOffice is a fan project aimed at enhancing open office by adding support for VBA among other things. I personally do not have any experience working with GO OpenOffice and apparently the support they added for VBA is not complete or is bugged. It is currently not on my to-do list to add support for GO Openoffice. If someone else has experience with both Excel and GO Openoffice and wants to make a fan update of the simsheet that would work in GO, feel free to do so; however I will not take any responsibility for it.

Sabrelime · 11/20/09, 10:26 PM

Hmm ok. I have no idea how any of the spreadsheet stuff really works or what macros really do so I didn't know which side of the problem was the problem. At least next patch we won't have to worry about weapon-swapping anymore.

Rogi · 11/21/09, 4:51 PM

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but with weapon swapping you also benefit from 3 stacks of moongoose/berserking, and if you also start swapping your mainhand that will mean you'll benefit from 4 stacks of moongose/berserking, am i right?

Mavanas · 11/21/09, 6:48 PM

Yes it's possible. We talked about it before. But in light of the PTR changes, I am not going to make any improvements to the weapon swapping module. In fact I am finishing a 3.3 version of the spreadsheet with all the new gear but without weapon swapping.

As for both hand swapping, the idea is to swap both mainhand and offhand weapons at once, and have DP on both swap-in weapons, so that DP is restacked faster and the only real cost is a potential loss of MH poison proc while refreshing DP. There is no additional swing reset when you swap two weapons at the same time. At least two factors that are not modeled in the spreadsheet can make it better. First is the one you are bringing up, a chance for an extra weapon enchant proc. Second is that you can use a fast weapon as MH swap weapon and avoid using any combo point building moves while DP is restacking. This technique could potentially increase your dps by restacking DP faster and by avoiding some of white damage lost.

Halens · 11/22/09, 3:07 AM

Originally Posted by Mavanas

Mutilate

Assumptions: Best 3.2.2 gear, with weapon swaping, using same offhand for both DP and IP
Spec: 51/18/2
Professions: JC/BS (LW, enchanting, or alchemy)
Gear:
Steel Bladebreaker MH (mongoose, IP)
Steel Bladebreaker OH (mongoose, DP/IP swapping)
BRK-1000
VanCleef's Helmet of Triumph
Charge of the Demon Lord
VanCleef's Pauldrons of Triumph
Vereesa's Dexterity
VanCleef's Breastplate of Triumph
Armbands of Dark Determination
VanCleef's Gauntlets of Triumph
Belt of the Merciless Killer
Legwraps of the Broken Beast
Treads of the Icewalker
Planestalker Signet
Ring of Callous Aggression
Comet's Trail
Death's Choice

Enchants and gemming: Standard enchants, six 20AP/10haste gems, three 68AP gems JC-only, 1 prismatic gem, rest are 40AP gems. AP food.
Rotation: Envenom-only (4+), 60 energy pooling, no extra priority if envenom buff drops. Swap offhands with 3 seconds remaining.

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Combat

Assumptions: Best 3.2.2 gear, with weapon swaping, using same offhand for both DP and WP
Spec: 18/51/2
Professions: JC/BS (LW, enchanting, or alchemy)
Gear:
Stormpike Cleaver (berserking, WP)
Lionhead Slasher (berserking, DP/WP swapping)
(the rest of the gear is the same as for mutilate)

Enchants and gemming: Standard enchants, six 20AP/10haste gems, three 34haste gems JC-only, 1 prismatic gem, seven 20hit gems, the rest are 20 haste gems. Haste food.
Rotation: 3/5/5 with eviscerate and rupture, 60 energy pooling, refresh SND 2 seconds before expiration or 5 seconds early if it is due to expire at the same time as rupture, pause eviscerate if rupture is due in 2 seconds. Swap offhands with 3 seconds remaining.

Does the gemming for mutilate BIS, still hold true?

Yuntiff · 11/22/09, 11:22 AM

Nothing has changed since then. If you mean for the incoming patch 3.3, then it is still up in the air whether we'll have enough hit to keep gemming AP/haste rather than AP/hit, but AP will most likely still be on top for red gems.

InFi · 11/24/09, 7:06 AM

So I got a friend's laptop to run the simulation and I was searching for the best ruptureless non weapon swapping spec. When disabling the use of Rupture I get 1 % dps increase as a result. I ran this more than once to make sure there was no mistake with my configurations.

So could this be true? I thought the DPE of Rupture would not be beaten until weapon swapping or 3.3 but the simulation shows otherwise. Can this be correct and I would actually be doing more dps just leaving rupture out?

Mavanas · 11/24/09, 9:09 AM

It can be true even without weapon swapping. Envenom-only cycles pull ahead when the value of the envenom buff increases enough. That happens when more of your attacks start landing, in other words when you pick up enough hit and haste gear.

InFi · 11/24/09, 9:27 AM

I can't say that I have a bunch of hit and/or haste.

I jost got the poison hit cap (237 rating) and got 323 haste. To me these numbers do not seem to favor Envenom a lot.

I always thought the DPE of Rupture was so good that without weapon swapping it would always be ahaed of Envenom.

Sadly I can't compare the results with any other tool. Ald's spreadsheet doesn't have the options and I get weird results when using the simcraft tool.

I will be testing 51/13/7 ruptureless now but I was just wondering whether you thought this should be correct despite having low hit and moderate haste.

Mavanas · 11/24/09, 9:57 AM

It is not as simple as comparing the DPE of the two moves because finishers is only a tiny portion of your energy's use. So if you improve the effeiciency of your finisher, you cannot use the saved energy to do that many more of that efficient finisher. If you save energy on efficient finishers, you end up adding more cycles consisting of inefficient in terms of DPE mutilates and a finisher, envenom or rupture depending on the situation.

Since I am lazy to look up your gear, I am going to give you an example with what I have in the simsheet right now. Looking at the simsheet backup sheets, in a five minute fight with a rupture rotation, you can land somewhere around 17 ruptures and 25 envenoms. Alternatively you can land around 41 envenoms in an envenom-only cycle. In a rupture cycle you also get enough energy to do 4 mutilates to support the extra finisher with combo points. Since mutilating till 5 combo points is not optimal for mutilate, you end up doing 4+ cycles, which results in approximately 4.5 combo point finishers. So the first combination costs you 310 energy in finishers and 220 energy for the extra mutilates and does 426k damage from finishers and 23k damage from the extra mutilates.

Alternatively if you drop rupture, you just do 41 envenoms that costs you same 530 energy and does 449k damage. So in this example, direct damage in both scenarios is the same, but the envenom-only scenario has the advantage of a higher envenom uptime, so it easily comes out ahead.

Grunge · 11/25/09, 5:43 PM

Mavanas, you mentioned some time ago that the swapped offhand is assumed to be the same as the normal offhand, does this include enchants?

I wonder, since atm I'm getting the best results from using Mongoose MH, Berserking OH.

Is this because the simulator accounts for the possibility of 2 berserking buffs from the offhands?

Mavanas · 11/25/09, 11:27 PM

No it does not account for the possibility of the 2 berserking buffs. I never implemented that.

Sabrelime · 11/26/09, 9:42 PM

Is there any way to calculate the ep values of stats using the simsheet? I have been trying to figure out exactly what haste would be worth for me, because on the regular spreadsheet says its worth 1.74 which is very high but I know would be higher then that for the mutilate weapon swap spec.

Axodry · 11/28/09, 6:37 PM

Hi Mavannas,

I was wondering if could help me model the Shard of the Crystal Heart in the your simulator if possible? {I noticed that you are using that in your combat spec...I assume because of Wpn Swapping?). Due to bad luck with Death's Verdict, I'm still using DMC-G and the Mark of Supremacy. I thought I read though that the the MoS came out ahead EP wise somewhere, but I can't remember for sure. Regardless, I wanted to test it out.
Thanks,