Rogue DPS Simulation Spreadsheet - Page 42

• Andeh · 12/24/09, 1:19 PM

Originally Posted by Mavanas

It'sa bug. I forgot to delete the old implementation. You are probably looking at the energy regen column. The implementation that takes into account tick timer reset is in column DR and it adds to your energy. However, that also means that in the last implementation, energy from HP was double counted. When I fix the error, HP scores below same ilvl daggers by about 140-150 dps. I have updated the uploaded file, so you will need to redownload it from the front page.

Yeah, I'm getting it as about a 130 DPS loss from the heroic 258 dagger (0.0% Pvalue) as well. That sort of jives with my gut instinct that the 258 heroic weapons would be nearly as good as the 264 weapons with stats, and that even with pretty high uptime HP won't hold up.

Mavanas · 12/24/09, 1:58 PM

Indeed Twin Spike Heroic appears to be far superior to HP normal.

As for Vigor, first make sure you are doing it right. Whenever you change total energy, you need to change "Do not use if energy is above (HaT only)" setting in the DPS rules. It's there to prevent energy capping in GCD-starved situations, but in this case, you need to change it from 100 to your total energy (110 if you have vigor, 120 if you have it glyphed too). I am seeing the following regarding Vigor:
- dps with Heartpierce increases by 70 when you have glyphed Vigor
- dps with Twin Spike increases by 30 when you have glyphed Vigor
The effect if Vigor on dps is higher for Heartpierce because you have higher energy regen and therefore higher chance to get energy capped. Vigor+glyph reduces the chance to get energy capped. This may also indicate that reducing or eliminating energy pooling may be beneficial to your dps. Check "Do not use if energy is below (energy pooling)" setting for envenom. By default it is set to 60.

P.S. I was right about energy pooling. Consider this table:

Energy Pooling	Vigor+Glyph	Heartpierce	Twin Spike
Yes		No		12998		13148
Yes		Yes		13069		13181
No		No		13021		13153
No		Yes		13047		13181

As you can see, the effect of vigor is seriously diminished when you do not have energy pooling. Also energy pooling is definitely limiting the effectiveness of Heartpierce. Also energy pooling is still effective for Heartpierce, but only when you have more energy. It's probably worth also trying an intermediate energy pooling case, say 50 energy.

Blakcghost · 12/25/09, 10:00 PM

I noticed on the table that the dps with h twin spike is the same for energy pooling with vigor+glyph as it is for no energy pooling but vigor+glyph. Is this because pooling energy is less significant because your not getting the extra energy regen from heartpierce?

Mavanas · 12/26/09, 12:22 AM

It's basically not significant. It neither helps nor causes you to get energy capped.

Nekrosis · 12/28/09, 12:50 PM

I downloaded the current 3.3c but when trying to use it is giving me an error that it cant access /corrupted or is located on a server that is not responding or ect. I've never ran into this before is it on my end or yours?
-Thanks again for the #1 sheet i.m.o Mavanas!

Mavanas · 12/28/09, 6:09 PM

Could be neither end. Most likely it is a corrupted download case, try downloading again please. If the outcome is the same, I will create a filefront mirror.

Nekrosis · 12/28/09, 8:15 PM

Tryed downloading agin (5 times) to be total and still the same outcome--May be corrupted, located on a server that is not responding, or readonly.

Mavanas · 12/28/09, 10:23 PM

Try this mirror.

Nekrosis · 12/29/09, 8:48 AM

That one works perfect thanks alot!

Mavanas · 12/30/09, 11:12 AM

I find the following sets to be best in slot:

Mutilate DPS: 13682

Profession: JC/Engineering (bombs and hyperspeed on cooldown)

DPS Strat: classic 4+, ToTT used on cooldown, no energy pooling, 51/18/2 spec

Gear:
Lungbreaker Heroic (DP)
Heartpierce Heroic (IP)
Gluth's Fetching Knife Heroic
Sanctified Shadowblade Helmet Heroic
Sindragosa's Cruel Claw Heroic
Sanctified Shadowblade Pauldrons Heroic
Shadowvault Slayer's Cloak Heroic
Ikfirus's Sack of Wonder Heroic
Toskk's Maximized Wristguards Heroic
Sanctified Shadowblade Gauntlets Heroic
Astrylian's Sutured Cinch Heroic
Sanctified Shadowblade Legplates Heroic
Frostbitten Fur Boots Heroic
Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance
Band of the Bone Colossus Heroic
Tiny Abomination in a Jar Heroic
Deathbringer's Will Heroic

Gems and enchants:
Double berserking, 1 prismatic in the chest, 34 haste x 3, 20 haste x 11, 20 ap/10 haste x 6 - basically gemming ap/haste in red slots and haste elsewhere. Haste food.

Combat DPS: 13480

Profession: JC/Engineering (bombs and hyperspeed on cooldown)

DPS Strat: 5pt eviscerate, ToTT used on cooldown, 60 energy pooling

Gear:
Bloodvenom Blade Heroic
Scourgeborne Waraxe Heroic
Steakthrower Heroic
Sanctified Shadowblade Helmet Heroic
Sindragosa's Cruel Claw Heroic
Sanctified Shadowblade Pauldrons Heroic
Vereesa's Dexterity
Sanctified Shadowblade Breastplate Heroic
Toskk's Maximized Wristguards Heroic
Aldriana's Gloves of Secrecy Heroic
Astrylian's Sutured Cinch Heroic
Sanctified Shadowblade Legplates Heroic
Frostbitten Fur Boots Heroic
Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance
Frostbrood Sapphire Ring Heroic
Tiny Abomination in a Jar Heroic
Deathbringer's Will Heroic

Gems and enchants:
Double berserking, 1 prismatic in the belt, 34 Arpen x 3, 10hit/10exp x 2, 20ap/10hit x 3, 20 Arpen x 12 - gemming hit and accuracy gems almost up to hard crit cap and expertise cap. The rest are armor pen gems, which end up being just below hard cap. Arpen food.

Thus by the time armor pen gains it's full value near the hard cap, combat almost catches up mutilate in single target dps.

Kabuo · 12/30/09, 12:56 PM

I picked up my 2 piece bonus yesterday, and I really don't have anything but my immediate reactions to base this on, but I was wondering how accurately your simsheet accounts for the +15 energy every 30 seconds and heartpierce. I didn't run with vigor yesterday, and after picking up the 2 piece, I'm strongly considering it. There were many instances where I almost capped energy because of heartpierce procs and using tricks on cd. And I know this is easily remedied by me maybe waiting an extra second or so to tricks instead of doing it on cd, but vigor seems like it would have been a significant dps increase last night, and I've just never felt that way before.

So, I guess the question I'm asking is whether or not the simsheet postpones using tricks to avoid capping or not, and, if that is the case, if there could be a greater benefit to vigor and the 2 piece than it shows. (throw me a bone and tell me heartpierce is good; I want to believe!)

Grunge · 12/30/09, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mavanas

...Mutilate DPS: 14542...

Since T10 hc tokens might be rare commodity for some time,
How far behind is 2pc+Cultist's Bloodsoaked Spaulders+Geistlord's Punishment Sack+Ikfirus's Sack of Wonder in heroic versions?

Mavanas · 12/31/09, 12:54 AM

I thought we established that Vigor (and corresponding glyph) are good for personal dps when using Heartpierce. It was a 70 dps increase when energy pooling if I recall, you can check the previous page. Tricks are modeled as used on cooldown, just like it says in the Inputs tab, so I do not model clever waiting on energy to be low before using the tricks when you have 2pt10. There could be adverse effects of that though. First, as soon as you delay on-use cooldowns, you can miss out on one of them if the fight ends earlier. Second, to limit the delay, you might have to use a suboptimal ability to burn the energy, such as a mutilate when you are already at 4 combo points, or an envenom when you only have 3 combo points. If you envenom at 4 to burn it, RS can still put you back where you were in terms of energy and make you delay the tricks even further. Third using tricks in sync with another rogue gives you an idea when to burn your personal cooldowns or when to pool a bit of energy in anticipation of an incoming tott. If you start delaying tott, you are going to get out of sync. Energy pooling before tott is also not modeled in the simsheet, but it is still a valid consideration here.

I haven't raided with a 2pt10 yet, so if it later seems like on cooldown strategy for tott results in substantial energy capping, i'd probably try to model a smart use of tott. However there is at least one thing that is stopping me right now. I think you can be pretty safe from energy capping even with 2pt10 if you do not pool energy. If you have a Heartpierce, you should not be energy pooling since it's a dps loss. Even with a regular dagger, energy pooling gives you an insignificant dps increase, so don't pool energy and reduce the chance to cap. Let envenom buff and number of combo points be your main guidance on when to mutilate and envenom.

Kabuo · 12/31/09, 2:50 AM

I was not pooling energy when I was running into almost capping issues; I was simply trying not to clip envenom with 1+ second left on buff, and doing this and using tott on cd caused me to come very close to capping last night (standard 4+ envenoms with heartpierce and 2 pc).

In your response you say that heartpierce, vigor, and glyph add up to about a 70 personal dps increase when energy pooling (which is not enough for me to stop glyphing tricks, but still good to know). In the 2nd paragraph of your response, however, you say "If you have a Heartpierce, you should not be energy pooling since it's a dps loss." I was not energy pooling to begin with when I was experiencing these near capping problems, but which strategy are you saying is correct with heartpierce, to pool or not to pool? I would imagine the only point of having vigor without considering the potential 2 pc capping problems would have been to pool energy and actually use the extra 10\20 energy.

Rogi · 12/31/09, 8:46 PM

Originally Posted by Mavanas

I think it is time to put up 3.3 best-in-slot gear setups for each spec, with an understanding that Black Bruise and Tiny Abomination in a Jar could potentially change the sets when we know for sure how they work. But for now I find the following sets to be best in slot:

I understand that we don't have much information about Black Bruise but suppose if it had a 100% uptime, do you think that combat would surpass assassination or be at the same level atleast?