Hi there first time post but ive been lurking for quite a while, great job keep up the good work,

I have a small problem which hopefully you can help me with, Ive been using your spreadsheet for a bit but just recently when ive re inputted my gear etc it wont let it calculate(run simulation) Im not a spreadsheet wizard but know my way around excel and what ive noticed is instead of where it has Set bonus -4 piece T7 on inputs page it actually reads #Value! now this happens when i input my gear, Im using 4 piece t7 so dont know why its not coming up? any help would be great as i love using the spreadsheets on here,

My armoury profile is The World of Warcraft Armory

retrying combat spec again so ive replaced sinster wiith CG and mirror with Grim troll, but i wouldnt think that would make a difference on that formula.Just got infuser but i know thats not in so running with grim/fury.

Thanks in advance for the help

Nargoth,

while I don't know the exact reason why you are observing a #value problem, I do notice that you are using an outdated version since your t7 bonuses show up on the inputs page. I have made some improvements to the spreadsheet and a new version is available on the front page of this post, look for the 3.1h version. Especially since you are modelling combat dps, I added an option to delay lower priority finishers if rupture is about to expire which is a rule people use empirically a lot to increase rupture uptime and which actually increases dps by a fair amount, so I strongly suggest using the new version.

I also inputed your gear into a fresh 3.1h copy and did not see any errors. I hope that fixes your problems.

I can't seem to open the file once downloaded. I get an error saying "Rogue Simulation cannot be accessed. The file may be read only or you may be trying to access a read only location. Or, the server the document is stored on may not be responding." I've redownloaded, same problem. Any ideas?

thankyou Mav, I was using the 3.1h version i think i downloaded it from front page, Ill check later ,

Once again thanks

ok it was the 3.1h version i was using, because of what was happening i decided to change 1 thing at a time, what ive found is that when i change my weapon it puts the #value in the inputs page under (double check this is what youve selected)

Not sure why this changes as im not altering my armour and this is where it normally says 4 piece t7?

once again thanks in advance, i cant see what im doing wrong if its not letting me run simulation after only changing weapons?

Nargoth, you have to redownload 3.1h and then check if you getting this error. It's really hard to say what's wrong if you are not even sure if you redownloaded it or not.

As far as formulas go, the order in which you choose weapons and gear should not matter. #value in that cell can appear if cells in avdamage column J, where bonuses are flagged are not numeric, which in turn would mean you have a somehow corrupt file.

If you redownload and the problem keeps occurring, send me a pm and we'll figure it out.

Thanks for the quick reply, Ive managed to download the new version at work and its working fine , must have just got a corrupted file on pc at home.

Thanks for the help.

(p.s. Infraction for not starting a sentance with a capital seems a bit harsh)

Just curious, but at my level of gear, which is fairly entry level, your spreadsheet suggests that I should simply stack agi/ap gems and enchants, instead of immediately trying to reach the expertise cap (already at hit) as many guildies and people on this site have suggested. I'm Mutilate btw. I'm just curious if this spreadsheet should really only be used at near BiS level of gear, or if accurately simulates lower gear levels as well? I am showing a difference level of around 500dps with my level of gear between expertise capping and just stacking agi/ap (I'm at only 62 expertise without enchants/gems). Is the "common wisdom" wrong (mutilate rogues cap expertise asap), or is there perhaps an issue with the simulation itself?

I believe from testing that AG and AP are better than expertise for mutilate now. Aldriana's FAQ seems to suggest the same for mutilate.

Expertise only pulls ahead for HaT-based specs.

The spreadsheet does not assume any level of gear. It will work with BiS gear just as well as with any other level, just enter the stats of your own items properly, and it will work. Right now I don't know of any problems with the spreadsheet other than that I need to properly model Grim Toll / Mjolnir combo, to see how some high levels of armor penetration will work. I think I am going to use the potential of the simulation method to its fullest by using RNG to model when each trinket will proc, and perhaps implement that together with executioner.

P.S. Actually if you are timing your envenoms to use them right after poison ticks (micromanaging DP damage), the value of expertise might be slightly higher (risk of getting an envenom dodged and not having enough time to do another one could be higher), but it's not going to surpass agility. Timing envenom relative to DP ticks is something that I have not implemented yet; right now it is triggered by your energy, combo point and DP stacks settings, as well as SND running out.

So basically people saying expertise cap ASAP are simply doing so because it allows them to run tighter rotations and not have to readjust things if something misses. I personally run a little loser of a rotation, because I like to pool energy for use during procs/etc. so I imagine that for me I should simply stack agi/ap then. Thanks for the help as always.

If anything I'm finding with Ulduar gear that I could have too much expertise. I don't see any reason for anyone to gem/enchant/food/pot for expertise with the current gear/weapons.

Don't under estimate the value of the expertise when you attack something in the front. In some situations you are forced to do that, in some others, while running around the boss you can attack from the front side. These situations effectively double the value of expertise. Also, getting parried can cause all kinds of problems to your healers for some bosses.

I disagree about itemization of expertise. I am currently running mutilate with 5 expertise. Some expertise heavy items also have high hit rating, but since I am already above the poison cap, the value of hit is not very high. And when you get to T8, unlike t7 they took away expertise from the helm, so you end up with even lower values of expertise.

Kologarn argument regarding expertise still stands. Reducing parries makes expertise a big deal, but I have not done any math nor modeled attacking from the front.

Except they added 76 expertise onto the chest.. so you have a net gain of 34 expertise compared to T7..

I was comparing it to 4-piece t7 with the Chestguard of the Recluse as the off piece, which has 83 expertise. So if you start with that (which was arguably the best pre-Ulduar setup for mutilate), then you do lose some expertise switching to t8. But like I said, it appears that loss of expertise is no big deal since agility is a better stat for mutilate.

Luckily Kologarn can't parry, though there are definitely other bosses where expertise is going to help alot, like Freya's adds, Hodir etc.

I added Mjolnir Runestone, so now you can see the effect of having both Grim Toll and Mjolnir. In order to implement this change, I changed all trinkets to simulation as opposed to using average effect like other spreadsheets do. Proc-based weapon enchants are also done using simulation as opposed totheoretical modelling. This change removed last pieces of theoretical modeling in my spreadsheet and moved everything to pure RNG simulation, similar to actual combat. In my mind if done right, this is a more accurate method in terms of tying the procs to the timing of your abilities, albeit not as precise due to RNG. It will also allow me in the future to provide an option to tie usage of abilities to trinket procs.

I also added an option to time envenoms to DP ticks. I did not test it extensively, so there may be some errors. In particular with 4/5 t8 I actually see a decrease in dps by enabling such timing. I notice that deadly poison damage properly goes up, but the delay of envenoms to wait for DP ticks has adverse effects on other dps sources. For instance IP damage goes down, and the likely reason is lower envenom buff uptime. Also an earlier envenom will cause an earlier 1-stack DP tick, which with 2-piece t8 will mean more energy. I will continue investigating this and trying it with and without t8 bonus.

With the t8 bonuses, I also found that MP performs slightly better than TtT, probably due to higher DP uptime and higher energy income from 2-piece set bonus.

I updated the main post with a new version 3.1i.

If you are talking about Aldriana's Mutilate Spreadsheet, this is the wrong thread, post should be here: http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t39136-c...updated_3_1_a/.

That said, Aldriana's spreadsheet doesn't have a selection for Glyphs because it assumes you are using HfB, Mutilate, and Rupture Glyphs as those are the optimal ones for a Mutilate rogue (With the exception of the TotT Glyph discussion that hasn't been included into that spreadsheet yet).

If the sheet is showing that SR x2 is better for you, then it probably is. You say "Obviously SR/MH and WD/OH is the way to go..." but clearly that isn't obvious for your gear. While it's possible that there is a bug in the sheet, it's just as likely (if not more so) that it is right and your preconceived notions of what is better are just wrong.

Mavanas can't see the reason not timing DP ticks should be better, I mean:
00:00 - DP applied
03:00 - DP tick
06:00 - DP tick

Now going for timed envenom:
00:00 - DP applied
03:00 - DP tick
03:10 - Envenom
03:20 - DP applied
06:20 - DP tick

Random one, on half of the tick
00:00 - DP applied
03:00 - DP tick
04:50 - Envenom
04:60 - DP applied
07:60 - DP tick

Thats the same damage, but for 1.4 seconds more time, i.e. dps drop. And makes T8x2 effect less often too.
The only issue I can see is that having pooled a lot of energy and getting good luck on the combo points you might end up having 80 energy, 4cp, rupture up and envenom buff up, so you have to clip it. Other than that, if you don't poll much energy (i.e. don't wait for 60+ before envenom) and still time the DP ticks should be best dps. Or I'm missing something...

The point he was making wasn't that timing Envenoms does less DP damage, in fact he specifically said that DP damage went up when he simulated that. The problem is that delaying your Envenoms for up to 3 seconds to wait for a DP tick will spread them out more, which will reduce your Envenom buff uptime and also possibly reduce your Rupture uptime as your finishers start to spread out.

The other problem with it is it's just another layer of micromanagement that even if it is a DPS increase isn't a significant one, and it just might impact your survivability on fights where you have to keep track of a lot of non-dps factors.

I was wondering if anyone knew how to tweek the spread sheet to add a TotT buff from another rogue, glyphed or not glyphed. I have been looking around for it but could not find it.

You can't spread envenoms Ticia, you have a constant flow of energy which you can use for same numbers of envenoms no matter if one is done 1.5 second later and the next - 1.5 sec earlier. You are not "losing" finishers by timing envenoms :p

Depending on the strategy the spreadsheet employs you could "loose" those envenom to achieve higher Rupture uptime. But then the strategy without waiting for DP-Ticks should probably pool more to achieve the higher uptime anyway.

What I could see happening is the timing for Ticks happen to force the sheet to clip the envenom buff at a later point and thereby loose DPS.