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Old 02/01/10, 3:15 PM   #736
Mavanas
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
3.3f - Target switching and fight interruptions

3.3f download link

I have implemented a new module that allows you to measure the impact of target switching and fight interruptions on your dps. As a user you can enable the module in DPS Strat tab and choose the following three parameters:

Travel time = time it takes a rogue without run speed buffs to reach the add (1-10 seconds). Any run speed buffs, such as Fleet Footed and Cat's Swiftness, reduce the time it takes you to reach the add and then back to the boss.
Add dps time = time spent attacking the add (0-30 seconds)
Time between adds = intervals between add spawn times (50-180 seconds)

When you enable fight interruption, first add is programmed to spawn 20 seconds into the fight (hardcoded). Then there is first travel period furing which you reach the add, followed by add dps period, followed by second travel period and finally back to boss dps. The cycle repeats itself and the length of the cycle is equal to time between adds you choose. If you choose 0 add dps time, then there is only one travel period up to 10 seconds and you go back to the boss. Thus by setting add dps time to 0, you are effectively simulation a small fight interruption.

Details of modeling:
1. Right before each run phase, provided you have the energy and DP stacks for it, your combo points are spent on either an eviscerate or an envenom depending on your dps settings. This is done so that your combo points are not wasted and you get an envenom buff when switching to a new target.
2. The add is assumed to not be sundered, but its armor is fully exposed one second into add dps time. When you go back to the boss, it still has full sunders.
3. It is assumed that the add has all other debuffs as chosen by you in the Inputs tab, in particular, it is assumed that when you start dpsing the add, it is already poisoned.
4. While you are running and dpsing the add, your DP stacks on the boss are not wiped immediately, DP continues ticking and if you get back to the boss fast enough, you will have a chance to refresh DP and not allow it to fall off. Regular tick reset rules still apply, so if you refresh DP after 4 DP damage ticks, the next DP tick will be reset. Similarly, while you are running to the boss, DP continues to tick on the add until it runs out.

When referring to simsheet results, I want to introduce new notation regarding the interrupted fights. (5/30/50) interrupted fight is a fight with 5 second travel time, 30 seconds add dps time, and 50 seconds between adds. In terms of examples, I'd say closest you can get to Putricide fight is (5/20/50), Jarraxus is close to (2/6/50), and Blood Queen is somewhat like (10/0/120).

P.S. I changed Troll Berserking to start at the same time as other cooldowns. I also moved the starting time of Shard of the Crystal Heart to occur after Hyperspeed Accelerators.

P.P.S I know the file gets bigger and runtime increases, it's the price I have to pay for added functionality. I am constantly thinking of ways to reduce the running time.

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Old 02/04/10, 9:31 PM   #737
ABUSEDGOAT
Von Kaiser
 
ABUSEDGOAT's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Jubei'Thos
I recently plugged my combat gear into the simsheet to play with target switching. My gear is mainly itemized towards mutilate, so I don't have a lot of arpen in my gear. I assumed that since ap vs arpen has been close for my combat build, arpen would be ahead for any fight with switching. Since there will be a few times where poison stacks have to be refreshed, my assumption was that arpen would pull ahead due to poison not scaling with arpen.

I'm a little stumped by the results I saw. 20/51/0, 1000 iterations for each. The only 'gear/input' changes made were the gems used. Red gems (including JC ones) were either all ap, or all arpen. I used my gear obviously, but otherwise nothing changed. The only 'dps strat' change was either a 1 or 0 for target switching.

Regular dps with all ap gems in red sockets: 11110.
Regular dps with all arp gems in red sockets: 11128.

Target switching dps (5/30/50) with ap gems: 9252.
Target switching dps (5/30/50) with arp gems: 9248.

Based on the results I saw, my assumption was completely backwards. I'm a little bit confused by this.

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Old 02/05/10, 1:06 PM   #738
Mavanas
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
Looking at your results, it appears that your armor pen and ap based setups produce about the same dps. I would be surprised if 18 dps difference were significant at 1000 iterations. The target switching mode does not change that balance. So basically what you are seeing is the two setups are equal in both modes.

As to which one should be theoretically higher and by how much, it depends on interruption parameters. Don't forget that with haste-based gear you stack up DP pretty fast and resume your poison damage, but at the same time your DP continues to tick on the boss adding that much of AP based damage to the mix. So it's not entirely clear that target switching favors arpen setups.

P.S. I am finishing analyzing BiS lists with Lich King gear, so expect some results over the weekend. I will also analyze various target switching modes.

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Old 02/06/10, 8:05 PM   #739
Mavanas
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
3.3 BiS (Updated for LK)

Combat: 13668

Spec: 20/51/0

Gear:
  • Havoc's Call, Blade of Lordaeron Kings Heroic
  • Scourgeborne Waraxe Heroic
  • Windrunner's Heartseeker Heroic
  • Sanctified Shadowblade Helmet Heroic
  • Sindragosa's Cruel Claw Heroic
  • Sanctified Shadowblade Pauldrons Heroic
  • Vereesa's Dexterity
  • Sanctified Shadowblade Breastplate Heroic
  • Toskk's Maximized Wristguards Heroic
  • Aldriana's Gloves of Secrecy Heroic
  • Astrylian's Sutured Cinch Heroic
  • Sanctified Shadowblade Legplates Heroic
  • Frostbitten Fur Boots Heroic
  • Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance
  • Frostbrood Sapphire Ring Heroic
  • Tiny Abomination in a Jar Heroic
  • Deathbringer's Will Heroic

Gemming: 20arp x 15, 34arp x 3, Nightmare Tear, 10hit/10exp x 2. Optimal gemming is based on achieving armor penetration hard cap, while staying under the crit cap and almost reaching the expertise cap. Armor penetration food.

Professions: JC/Engineering

Alternatives: Other items, professions and gemming choices produce very close dps results for combat (within 20 dps). In particular:
  • TAJ+Engineering vs Herkuml War Token+Blacksmithing
  • Fal'inrush, Defender of Quel'thalas Heroic vs Windrunner's Heartseeker Heroic (requires regemming)
  • Band of the Bone Colossus Heroic vs Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance (till you reach exalted)



Mutilate: 13855

Spec: 51/18/2

Gear:
  • Heaven's Fall, Kryss of a Thousand Lies Heroic
  • Lungbreaker Heroic
  • Fal'inrush, Defender of Quel'thalas Heroic
  • Sanctified Shadowblade Helmet Heroic
  • Sindragosa's Cruel Claw Heroic
  • Sanctified Shadowblade Pauldrons Heroic
  • Shadowvault Slayer's Cloak Heroic
  • Ikfirus's Sack of Wonder Heroic
  • Toskk's Maximized Wristguards Heroic
  • Sanctified Shadowblade Gauntlets Heroic
  • Astrylian's Sutured Cinch Heroic
  • Sanctified Shadowblade Legplates Heroic
  • Frostbitten Fur Boots Heroic
  • Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance
  • Band of the Bone Colossus Heroic
  • Whispering Fanged Skull Heroic
  • Tiny Abomination in a Jar Heroic

Gemming: 20haste x 9, 34haste x 3, Nightmare Tear, 20ap/10haste x 7, 20hit x 1, 20ap/10hit x 1. Optimal gemming is based on staying under the crit cap and almost reaching the expertise cap, while maximizing haste and AP as secondary stat.

Professions: JC/Engineering

Alternatives: Very few alternatives within 20 dps. In particular:
  • Agility/haste vs AP/haste (requires adding hit gems)


All results were obtained for a 5 minute fight without target switching.

Last edited by Mavanas : 02/09/10 at 7:32 PM.

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Old 02/07/10, 9:34 AM   #740
Johanna
Glass Joe
 
Troll Rogue
 
<WTF>
Eredar (EU)
It would be very amusing if it were intended, in your sheet there actually is a "Steakthrower", although the real name is Stakethrower...dont know if you're aware of that.

Last edited by Johanna : 02/14/10 at 8:32 AM.

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Old 02/09/10, 7:49 PM   #741
Mavanas
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
3.3f - updated with LK loot

The file is now updated and can be downloaded from the front page. In the new file you will find all LK loot after the recent adjustments. I also added Battle Squawk buff in the Inputs page.

Target Switching

Based on the recent simsheet, I ran an analysis of target switching. In general the effects of target switching on gear choices are not very big. For each spec, I have testes several points of contention and tried some common sense alternatives. I tested these alternatives for three interrupted fight modes: (5/20/50) Putricide, (2/6/50) Jarraxus, and (10/0/120) Blood-Queen.

Mutilate

Spec: 51/13/7 vs 51/18/2 - the latter is firmly ahead by more than 100 dps
Tier boni: choosing 2/5 with head, shoulders, and chest offpieces is still lower than 4/5, however the gap is smaller
AG vs AP: AG/haste is slightly stronger than AP/haste (change requires adding 2 hit gems), however, haste remains the main stat for mutilate.
Herkuml vs WFS Heroic: the latter is still ahead by more than 30 dps

Combat
Spec: 5/5 improved poisons and 0/3 vile poisons is ahead of 4/5 and 1/3, by the order of 30 dps
Tier boni: the gap between 2/5 and 4/5 is smaller, but the latter is still ahead by at least 70 dps
TAJ+Eng vs Herkuml+BS: for target switching in all modes, Herkuml pulls ahead by less than 20 dps


Adding a DPS table below:

Simsheet Mutilate Combat
Base 13855 13668
Blood-Queen 10/0/120 12579 12230
Jarraxus 2/6/50 12308 12476
Putricide 5/20/50 11078 11146

The effect of fleet-footed and cat's swiftness varies by the type of fight. For a Putricide type of fight, Fleetfooted is worth up to 286 dps for two talent points. For combat Cat's swiftness is worth 40 dps on top of Icewalker enchant. However for a fight like Jarraxus, Cat's Swiftness is a downgrade of 40 dps relative to Icewalker.

Last edited by Mavanas : 02/16/10 at 6:17 PM.

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Old 02/12/10, 1:10 AM   #742
Gmpotu
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Shattered Hand
Mavanas does your sim sheet take into account the 4.8% crit reduction like Ald's sheet?

In Ald's sheet
Rib Spreader (264)
Stygian Blade Breaker Heroic (258)
Shrapnel Star (264)

is better than
Rib Spreader (264)
Orcish Deathblade Heoric (245)
Njordnar Bow (251)

by about 95dps with my other gear and without changing gems, since his includes the 4.8% and therefore allows me to still be under the crit cap.

In your sheet it's like 40dps loss unless I gem hit up to the crit cap for your sheet.

I see on the AvDmg tab there is a place where it shows the Crit Reduction but was wondering how it is modeled in the sim.

Last edited by Gmpotu : 02/12/10 at 1:31 AM.

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Old 02/12/10, 9:38 AM   #743
Mavanas
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
If you are seeing crit reduction in AvDamage tab, you are looking at an older version. In the latest version, crit depression is directly incorporated in your effective crit rate. Also in your gear tab, 4.8% is part of your crit cap formula, which now equals to 100%-D-M-G+4.8%.

So redownload the sheet from the front page.

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Old 02/12/10, 5:10 PM   #744
Miltrath
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Earthen Ring
3.3f has an error on discarded bag of entrails. socket bonus is listed as 8 AGI, correct bonus is 8 ARP.

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Old 02/13/10, 11:41 AM   #745
Gmpotu
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Shattered Hand
Got the new version and it worked with the 4.8%. I didn't realize there was update since the letter stayed the same.
The new version gave the expected results similar to Ald's sheet. Is there a way for the gem slots that it could autoselect the bonus if you have the right colors matched? Clicking through each gem and then clicking yes or no with how small the lines in the sim are seems tedius.

Thanks for the excellent sheet and all the hard work.

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Old 02/13/10, 11:48 AM   #746
todemax
Piston Honda
 
Troll Rogue
 
Zenedar (EU)
Originally Posted by Gmpotu View Post
Got the new version and it worked with the 4.8%. I didn't realize there was update since the letter stayed the same.
The new version gave the expected results similar to Ald's sheet. Is there a way for the gem slots that it could autoselect the bonus if you have the right colors matched? Clicking through each gem and then clicking yes or no with how small the lines in the sim are seems tedius.

Thanks for the excellent sheet and all the hard work.
Clicking yes/no only affects the listed gems, such that yes at a blue socket forces only purple/green/prismatic gems to show in the list. The socket bonus is automatically included if the gem matches.

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Old 02/17/10, 4:29 AM   #747
np2k
Glass Joe
 
Troll Rogue
 
<no1>
Kazzak (EU)
Are you sure that the offsets helm + shoulders (Geistlord's Punishment Sack (Heroic) (Cultist's Bloodsoaked Spaulders (Heroic) isnt the bis for mutilate? According to my calculations, running the 2 offset is ahead by 50-60 dps.

Last edited by np2k : 02/17/10 at 4:50 AM.

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Old 02/17/10, 10:37 AM   #748
Mavanas
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
If it is more than 13855 by a statistically significant margin, PM me other details regarding gear, gemming, rotation and professions. From what I have tested 13855 was the highest mutilate result (within statistical significance) and it involved the set that I have posted as BiS above. This result is repeatable within 10 dps, which is the size of the confidence interval.

I just ran 2/5 with your suggested offset pieces and got 13827 with haste/ap gemming and 13804 with haste/ag gemming.

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Old 02/17/10, 11:50 AM   #749
Omniwank
Von Kaiser
 
Omniwank's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by Mavanas View Post
Target Switching

Based on the recent simsheet, I ran an analysis of target switching. In general the effects of target switching on gear choices are not very big. For each spec, I have testes several points of contention and tried some common sense alternatives. I tested these alternatives for three interrupted fight modes: (5/20/50) Putricide, (2/6/50) Jarraxus, and (10/0/120) Blood-Queen.

Mutilate

Spec: 51/13/7 vs 51/18/2 - the latter is firmly ahead by more than 100 dps
Tier boni: choosing 2/5 with head, shoulders, and chest offpieces is still lower than 4/5, however the gap is smaller
AG vs AP: AG/haste is slightly stronger than AP/haste (change requires adding 2 hit gems), however, haste remains the main stat for mutilate.
Herkuml vs WFS Heroic: the latter is still ahead by more than 30 dps
I'm getting significantly different results for non-Heroic gear levels. For example, with my current gear I am seeing 51/13/7 ahead of 51/18/2 on Putricide/Jaraxxus/Blood-Queen, and surprisingly Saurfang as well (@300 iterations each, ~70-80 dps on most). I'm also seeing 51/18/2 with Opportunity behind 51/18/2 with RS on most of the interrupted fights, which contrasts with some other conclusions on target switching. Can anyone confirm getting similar results with BiS outside of hard modes?

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Old 02/17/10, 12:49 PM   #750
Mavanas
Great Tiger
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
Are you using the latest version of the spreadsheet? There were two changes that affected target switching in the latest version and the version number was not changed. Specifically, I made it so that all DP stacks were wiped on the add when the add phase was over, which assumes the add is dead. When you first reported your results re: 51/13/7 vs 51/18/2 while target switching, the DP stayed on the add. There was also a bug with TAJ when used with target switching. If you are getting these results using the latest sheet, perhaps you need to PM me with your specifications, such as gear, spec, etc.

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