Ticia

It's a minor point (and probably doesn't change the rankings at all), but [Loop of the Agile] is from 10 Man Hard-Mode Iron Council, so probably shouldn't be in your "Best before Hard modes" gear set.

 

Mavanas

Good point, I am guessing the replacement will be Metallic Loop of the Sufferer for mutilate and Band of Draconic Bile
or Godbane Signet for combat, depending on amount of expertise in BbH gear.

 

strawberryfm

Any chance you could include a non ArP combat simulation in your next go around? It is of interest if you're main specc is going to be mutilate without losing the flexibility to be able to go combat when needed.

Thanks for the informative simulation summaries so far, keep up the good work

 

Blizisyimhot

Please also add [Magnetized Projectile Emitter] to the next version.

 

Mavanas

Sure, I'll add it. If it did not have a socket, it would be trivial to add yourself, just insert a row and enter the stats. But socketed item also require some work at the bottom of the gear sheet.

As for non ArP setup and any other tweaks to BiS setups, you should be able to run it yourself. From memory though, combat BbH with agility gems was only 30 dps below.

 

Jeppathum

I'm intrigued by your best before hard mode set, is there really no cloak upgrade in Ulduar? According to Aldrianna's mutilate sheet Drape of the Faceless General would be the only one, but if you think it's not as good, then you're probably right.

 

• Aldriana

Drape of the Faceless General is from Vezax 10 Hard, thus is excluded from the best before hard mode upgrade list. Drape of Icy Intent is similarly an upgrade over the KT cloak, but is, again, from a hard mode (Hodir 25 Hard). If you're going to exclude all hard mode loot, then yes, KT cloak is probably the best option.

Of course, one can debate to what extent a "best before hard mode" list actually makes sense, as, for instance, many of the 10-man hard modes (and even some of the 25 man ones, at this point) are probably easier to kill than Yogg 25. So I personally disagree with the premise of the list, though given said premise it looks more or less correct if less than wholly useful.

 

Mavanas

Don't read too much into it, it's just an easy to define dividing line. While I agree most people will see some 10-man hard mode loot before 25 man Yogg, it will really depend on their raiding schedules and quality of their groups. In my personal case, we just did out first 10 man hardmodes last week and are still working on 25 man Yogg, but we are very close. So I would not say it's totally out of order.

 

Jeppathum

I didn't realise that cloak was from hard mode, I'll need to update my list. My raid group, and I suspect many others, are working on the 25 man content, we have killed mimiron twice but haven't had time to try the general yet, and we aren't going to be spending time learning hard modes until we have killed everything on normal mode, so to me this is the most useful list.

 

Tofuu

I have a question regarding serrated blade in my 51/7/13 build. can you please tell me where I can find infos regarding what percentage of dps increase does 3/3 of this talent provide? Assuming fully raid armor debuff (sunder+FF).

if You don't consider dark matter as the choice of your trinket, would 51/7/13 outperform 51/13/7 by a significant margin? (not within RNG variance)

 

Istaril

You're posting this question with regards to the DPS increase of a talent in a thread that provides a spreadsheet which allows you to do just that. I strongly recommend you use the spreadsheet.

In addition, the two specs treat Dark Matter almost identically; one has 3% less Hit and 3% less crit... essentially not affecting your crit cap.

 

catheryna

Thank you for the sheet, I'm finding it useful, particularly as I can add gear that was not in there by default.

Without having read all pages of the thread, I'd be interested in seeing an option for +40 crit food, or someone pointing me in the direction of a howto for adding that myself.

Also I'd be interested in seeing Overkill modelled with offensive use of Vanish - e.g. opening from stealth, and vanishing every 3 min to re-proc Overkill (which would give 2 Overkill periods in the default 5 minute fight) if it is not already.

Many thanks again

 

darkspiritz

So what you guys are saying is TtT is better then MP ? only if the DP can be applied back fast to 5 stacks? cus ive been reading up on wither to keep MP or just go TtT anyone wanna give me advice or suggestions.. ? Im a mut rogue with a slow mainhand and fast offhand.

 

Istaril

Advice/Suggestions; Try them out in the spreadsheets to see which one will work better for you. It depends on your hit chance and OH weapon speed. The slower your weapon and the worse your hit, the more beneficial MP is. The faster your weapon or the better your hit, the less beneficial it is.

The difference between the two isn't big, though. You may find 1/3 MP and 2/3 TTT, or 2/3 MP, 1/3 TTT are optimal... it boils down to a matter of preference. I prefer MP for the ability to bring the 3% crit buff to 10 mans etc.

 

Mavanas

Personally I prefer MP, not only because it provides slightly more dps for my level of gear but because of raid buffs, especially with 10-mans in mind. The difference between TtT and MP in all sources I've seen is so small that raid buff comes as strong argument for the latter.

As far as Overkill used offensively, it is already modeled in conjunction with Garrote. DPS Strat page has a list of abilities used and if you select Garrote (put 1 in the appropriate field, or just use a preset for your spec), the simulation will automatically time vanishes. If you have Overkill, the first vanish is done when conditions for a garrote are satisfied; however, it will not happen while the previous Overkill buff is still active. For all other specs, the first vanish will not happen while a previous garrote is still ticking. If you have preparation talent it too is timed in a similar fashion, maximizing the number of vanishes and making sure garrote is not overwritten. Master of Subtlety is also modeled and becomes active after each vanish.

If you select 0 for garrote, it effectively disables offenive vanishing and garrote is only applied once in the beginning of the fight.

 

Tofuu

Does the position that MP outperforms TtT assume that the 3 percent crit does not already exist in the raid? So when there's already a ret pally in the raid, will I be able to conclude that TtT will be more valueable than MP?

 

Ticia

No, TtT and MP are about equal assuming that you are already getting the 3% crit from somewhere else in the raid. If you aren't getting it anywhere else, then MP is very clearly better, which is why a lot of people choose it for flexibility in 10 Man groups.

 

Mavanas

I have added more support of other professions in anticipation of 3.2. In particular, I modeled the proc of Swordguard Embroidery (Tailoring), added Hyperspeed Accelerators, Nitro Boosts, and even Saronite bombs. To activate the enchants, use the Gear tab. To use the bombs, go to Special buffs in the input tab. The latest version of the spreadsheet can be found in the main thread of this forum, or you can follow this link.

 

Loot

Mavanas, I have been wondering which is best for start - using BF+AR and when AR done KS at the start, using KS+BF at the start and AR at the next time trinkets proc or using them all at second time trinkets proc. Thing is, the target is not sundered or not fully sundered at the very start and takes like 10 seconds to become sundered, but that time is enough for the trinkets procs to drop.

 

Mavanas

There are two questions in one here. First is which cooldown is more valuable in terms of dps, AR or KS. Depending on which one is better, you may want to time your cooldowns in a way that the best ability is used when raid buffs and procs are at the maximum. The answer to that is KS is a better dps increase by a big margin when measured over the buff duration.

Second question is when do raid buffs and procs reach their highest potential. On one hand sunders reach 5 stacks in about 10 seconds (actually probably faster in my experience, perhaps somewhere around 6-7). On the other hand trinkets and berserking take time to proc. Based on the simulation, trinkets like mjolnir runestone take on average 11 ticks or 2.2 seconds to proc. Berserking takes on average 100 ticks or 20 seconds to proc. So your choices are to use KS right away, use it 3 seconds later when trinkets proc, use it 10 seconds later when you have full sunders and Mjolnir is still up, wait and use it when Berserking procs. Out of these options, using KS when you have full sunders and your trinkets still have at least 3 seconds left is the best option. If your trinkets proc late and you have to choose what's better full sunders or utilizing the Mjolnir proc, the proc is about 3 times more effective, so you'd want to use KS before the proc runs out even if sunders are not full yet.

So the best strategy is to use BF and KS right after with 3 seconds before the trinket buff runs out, regardless of how many sunders are up at the moment. Then after KS is over, spend your energy and use AR. It's also better to use KS first for another consideration. If you use it first, you only delay AR by 3 seconds. If you use AR first, you are delaying KS by 15 seconds. For purposes of using as many cooldowns as possible in the duration of the fight, the first scenario is normally better.

 

Zzmoke

I keep getting

"C:\Users\****\AppData\Local\Temp\cpLeyMMe.xls.part could not be saved, because the source file could not be read.
Try again later, or contact the server administrator."

**** the name of the user. Is there currently a problem with the link or is it on my end?

 

Mavanas

Anyone else getting this problem with the latest file? I have no idea what the problem might be. cpLeyMMe does not return any results in Google search, and obviously it's not the file name of the simulation spreadsheet.

Edit: searching for a similar problem, I found this link which basically explains that the file was not fully downloaded to your computer. So you have to redownload it.

Also if this link works better, I added a filefront mirror link.

 

Loot

Thanks for the extensive reply Mavanas, will adjust my playstyle to match your findings, squeezing a bit more dps is always good

 

nepsi

Mavanas, wouldn't it be optimal to get S&D running first, before you KS?

 

Loot

Oh of course, s&d is first thing you need to do always, it is so huge dps loss to even be a second without