Incoming Rogue Changes Discussion - Page 11

Solitaire · 08/05/09, 2:21 AM

Stats on T9 outweigh T8, though 2p T9 and offpieces may be better than going for 4p

Tinwhisker · 08/05/09, 7:28 AM

Originally Posted by matubah

So now with the new tier 9 set being out, and the 2 piece and 4 piece being not so stellar, is it the right choice to just stick with 4/5 tier 8.5?

While the set bonuses might not be that inspiring, the stat increases could represent a pretty hefty stat upgrade. Although by my estimations, moving from T8/BiS to T9/232 isn't worth it and moving to T9/245 isn't nearly the DPS increase you would expect from a full tier upgrade.

I did some simple stat weighting and some back calculations/estimations on set bonus gains from a recent XT-002 hard mode fight. I came up with T8/BiS -> T9/232 being a DPS downgrade, -> T9/245 being a marginal DPS upgrade and T9/254 being about tier's (or slightly more than a full tier) upgrade.

Of course, that's assuming you have T8/BiS, only uses some simple stat weighting based on estimated EP values (with a lower Agi EP for T9) and not taking into account any other gear interactions from drops we're unaware of. Grain of salt is required.

koaschten · 08/05/09, 2:11 PM

Plugging T9/245 5/5 into Aldriana's sheet is already an upgrade at if you leave out the T9 bonus. That much of a stat upgrade is it that you can swallow the loss of the t8 bonus.

matubah · 08/05/09, 2:13 PM

Originally Posted by Tinwhisker

While the set bonuses might not be that inspiring, the stat increases could represent a pretty hefty stat upgrade. Although by my estimations, moving from T8/BiS to T9/232 isn't worth it and moving to T9/245 isn't nearly the DPS increase you would expect from a full tier upgrade.

I did some simple stat weighting and some back calculations/estimations on set bonus gains from a recent XT-002 hard mode fight. I came up with T8/BiS -> T9/232 being a DPS downgrade, -> T9/245 being a marginal DPS upgrade and T9/254 being about tier's (or slightly more than a full tier) upgrade.

Of course, that's assuming you have T8/BiS, only uses some simple stat weighting based on estimated EP values (with a lower Agi EP for T9) and not taking into account any other gear interactions from drops we're unaware of. Grain of salt is required.

so is it fair to say that I should stick with my t8.5 for now, gain 4 pieces of t9, and wear them then? would just having 3 pieces of t9 and two pieces of t8.5 cut it to make it an upgrade?

Valustria · 08/05/09, 3:35 PM

So, this is probably obvious to most of us, but [Nightmare Tear] is actually really awesome. It's better than [Shifting Dreadstone] for DPS and counts as a blue gem for activating our RED meta, effectively removing any need to socket purple gems at all.

Kjaska · 08/05/09, 3:46 PM

It's Unique-Equipped though, so you can only use 1 of them per gear set.

Bayushi-ko · 08/05/09, 3:56 PM

Originally Posted by Kjaska

It's Unique-Equipped though, so you can only use 1 of them per gear set.

Seeing as you only need one blue gem to activate the RED, I'd say that's just fine...

Hanos · 08/05/09, 4:43 PM

Originally Posted by Kjaska

It's Unique-Equipped though, so you can only use 1 of them per gear set.

Until there is a socket bonus that is worth 10 stat points, every additional purple gem is a DPS loss, so you use a tear, and gem the rest with reds and oranges.

mdn · 08/05/09, 5:43 PM

Also stating what is somewhat the obvious: it's much easier to get to the point armor penetration becomes better than agility now with epic gems, so it seems like gemming armor penetration in red sockets, agi/crit in Yellow, and 1 Nightmare Tear is by far the best option now as combat.

For mutilate I'd guess agility is still the best choice.

Feist-Mok · 08/05/09, 6:41 PM

Originally Posted by mdn

Also stating what is somewhat the obvious: it's much easier to get to the point armor penetration becomes better than agility now with epic gems, so it seems like gemming armor penetration in red sockets, agi/crit in Yellow, and 1 Nightmare Tear is by far the best option now as combat.

For mutilate I'd guess agility is still the best choice.

In a similar vein, it seems as though in some gear sets Puissant Twilight Opal (10 ArP/15Sta) is better than the Nightmare Tear option for that 1 blue gem.

• Aldriana · 08/05/09, 6:45 PM

That seems... unlikely. Nightmare Tear is worth about 10 + 10*2 = 30 EP, so for Puissant to pass it the value of ArPen would need to be above 3; and, in practice, by the time it hits 2.5 or so, you cap out while your trinket is procced, and that's the end of that. If you could push ArPen up near the cap even without Mjolnir, it might rise to those levels, but it certainly doesn't for any gear I've checked.

Of course, we don't have access to the full loot list, either. We'll have to see how things look in a month or two when we have a better idea what the loot list will look like.

Valustria · 08/05/09, 8:42 PM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

That seems... unlikely. Nightmare Tear is worth about 10 + 10*2 = 30 EP...

With Kings, wouldn't Nightmare Tear be (10 + 10*2)*1.1 = 33 EP?

• Aldriana · 08/05/09, 9:13 PM

No, because the 1.1 is already factored into the value of Agility. Same reason why strength is worth 1.1 - because it already includes Kings.

Murr · 08/06/09, 3:29 PM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

Of course, we don't have access to the full loot list, either. We'll have to see how things look in a month or two when we have a better idea what the loot list will look like.

Here you go, entire Coliseum 25 loot list, lv258 and lv245, (had to TinyURL it thus the edit, armory filters in URL didn't play nice with forum).

Also the rogue-relevant lv272 Tribute Cloak that doesn't show up in the zone filter..

Rambaral · 08/06/09, 4:41 PM

Stygian Bladebreaker
The World of Warcraft Armory

Those stats look awful high, like Arthas loot high. It seems like a fast offhand dagger is still going to be BiS.

And a Conan reference to boot.