In mutilate build 18/51/2, would it make sense to use weaponswapping on mainhand to get different echantmentprocs?
Like having one dagger with blackmagic(does IP or DP trigger the haste proc?) and the other one with Zerker or Mungo,
Or for example, swapping the "zerkerdagger" after a proc with a "mungodagger", or would the gcd, cause more trouble and result in decreased DPS, then rather improve it?
If, by any chance swapping is still going to be a thing to think of, has anyone an idea for a macro that swapps my daggers on an enchantmentproc?
So I picked up Heartpierce yesterday played around on how effective it could be. On a dummy without using SnD and a 1.4 speed OH, uptime of the buff was around 45% (6 procs./min quite some overlapping) on a 5 minute session. Then I did another 5 minutes session with me doing my regular rotation (3+ CP envenoms, SnD up) the buff uptime was 72% (9 Procs/min) then finally, I did reg ToC25 tonight and decided using it, the buff uptime for NB was around 74% (gotta consider the downtimes tho), had a 89% uptime on Jaraxuss (Stayed on boss the whole time, never got legion flames) and 83% on twins. We have an enhacement shaman in raid (so 20% haste) and BL was used on every fights. I also raid with a retarded amoutn of hit due to my guild having pretty lame drop and death's choice dropping 1 time on regular and twice on heroic. I was pretty surprised on the proc rate espeically after reading the earlier posts.
I picked one up tonight, and after playing around with it for a couple fights, I wasn't at all impressed with the proc rate, I had one time where it overlapped, but never procced again the rest of the fight.
I didn't do any real intense testing, so I'm glad to see positive results from somebody with it. Time to go beat on a dummy.
One question I have is, due to mutilate having a bit less energy regen with the current build, does the added energy regen have a bit more importance than we're imagining? I mean sometimes with bad luck I find myself sitting for like 3 seconds with no envenom buff because I didnt proc a ruthlessness or RS.
Last edited by Sebastionleo : 12/10/09 at 2:56 AM.
Other DPS in my guild insist /startattack changed in patch 3.3. I see notes on Attack changing but nothing to indicate /startattack shouldn't work exactly like it did before. However, when a target switch happens and I am spamming my /startattack macro'd Mutilate button, it seems like I never actually start attacking the new target.
Has anyone else seen this behavior? If it did change, is there an equivalent macro command we can use? I've tried /autoattack and /cast !Auto Attack but they still don't seem to function the same as my beloved /startattack...
Or... are my guildmates on drogas and nothing actually changed?
Last edited by Professor Hurt : 12/10/09 at 11:23 AM.
Other DPS in my guild insist /startattack changed in patch 3.3. I see notes on Attack changing but nothing to indicate /startattack shouldn't work exactly like it did before. However, when a target switch happens and I am spamming my /startattack macro'd Mutilate button, it seems like I never actually start attacking the new target. Has anyone else seen this behavior? If it did change, is there an equivalent macro command we can use? I've tried /autoattack and /cast !Auto Attack but they still don't seem to function the same as my beloved /startattack...
Or... are they on drogas and nothing actually changed?
I had a issue last night in ICC10 with a start attack macro. It seemed like it didn't activate multiple times and it waited for my energy pool to return to actually do the special attack later in the macro. I thought this was a isolated incident, or my user error, but maybe not. Has anyone experienced this or heard anything?
I had a issue last night in ICC10 with a start attack macro. It seemed like it didn't activate multiple times and it waited for my energy pool to return to actually do the special attack later in the macro. I thought this was a isolated incident, or my user error, but maybe not. Has anyone experienced this or heard anything?
Hi, new poster here, but i've been following EJ rogue forums for several months now.
i personally did not notice this issue with my /startattack /cast mutilate macro, but looking over the patch notes i saw this:
Attack is now called Auto Attack. The tooltip has been changed to reflect that the player will continue automatically attacking a target
Other DPS in my guild insist /startattack changed in patch 3.3. I see notes on Attack changing but nothing to indicate /startattack shouldn't work exactly like it did before. However, when a target switch happens and I am spamming my /startattack macro'd Mutilate button, it seems like I never actually start attacking the new target.
Has anyone else seen this behavior? If it did change, is there an equivalent macro command we can use? I've tried /autoattack and /cast !Auto Attack but they still don't seem to function the same as my beloved /startattack...
Or... are my guildmates on drogas and nothing actually changed?
I noticed this too. I would FoK'ing and I wouldn't autoattack even though I have that as part of the macro. Not until i actually pressed the 'attack' button did I start autoattacking. Whatever it is, I did notice weirdness and a difference in how it is activated. I just don't know what that is.
Tested just the /startattack in a macro on a frog in Dalaran; I killed the frog.
When targeting it (not right-clicking it), this line still put a red ring around the frog. When in melee range, I whacked the frog.
/cast !Auto Attack performed the same action. /autoattack did/does nothing.
I then fought Segacedi (the sewer shark in Dal). Tab targetted him, and used both macro lines (on two separate occasions) paired with /cast Mutilate. I observed in my combat log that I attacked him FIRST with a normal melee attack and then Mutilate.
I would assume from this that /startattack and /cast !Auto Attack still work as intended and that it might have been lag, or the drogas. But if anyone has actual instance evidence of /startattack not working, that would probably be more substantial.
Tested just the /startattack in a macro on a frog in Dalaran; I killed the frog.
When targeting it (not right-clicking it), this line still put a red ring around the frog. When in melee range, I whacked the frog.
/cast !Auto Attack performed the same action. /autoattack did/does nothing.
I then fought Segacedi (the sewer shark in Dal). Tab targetted him, and used both macro lines (on two separate occasions) paired with /cast Mutilate. I observed in my combat log that I attacked him FIRST with a normal melee attack and then Mutilate.
I would assume from this that /startattack and /cast !Auto Attack still work as intended and that it might have been lag, or the drogas. But if anyone has actual instance evidence of /startattack not working, that would probably be more substantial.
I ran these tests also, and noticed the same results you did. In fact, I did a multiple-target test by pulling a bunch of adds in Icecrown and letting my macro move me from one to the next. It seemed to function fine. However, in every raid/5-man group it's happening constantly, where I'll just be standing there doing nothing but specials.
One thought: didn't /startattack put you in attack mode pre-3.3? As far as I can tell, this doesn't happen anymore...
Anyway, it doesn't look like anyone heard of it changing. Perhaps it has to do with that autoattack bug they reported...
Last edited by Professor Hurt : 12/10/09 at 4:00 PM.
Other DPS in my guild insist /startattack changed in patch 3.3. I see notes on Attack changing but nothing to indicate /startattack shouldn't work exactly like it did before. However, when a target switch happens and I am spamming my /startattack macro'd Mutilate button, it seems like I never actually start attacking the new target.
Has anyone else seen this behavior? If it did change, is there an equivalent macro command we can use? I've tried /autoattack and /cast !Auto Attack but they still don't seem to function the same as my beloved /startattack...
Or... are my guildmates on drogas and nothing actually changed?
I had the same thing happen mutiple times last night in raid and in 5man. My poisons would drop off and I tried like hell to get some damage going so I could reapply and nothing would happen. At times it seemed like I couldnt even use mutilate. All my abilitys have macroed:
Showtooltip#
/autoattack
/cast "special"
If it was lag, then I would think my damage output wouldnt tapper off as much as it did. Typically would drop 5+ spots on the meter within the time it took to start attacking again.
Last edited by skorpeo : 12/10/09 at 5:56 PM.
Reason: info
I had the same thing happen mutiple times last night in raid and in 5man. My poisons would drop off and I tried like hell to get some damage going so I could reapply and nothing would happen. At times it seemed like I couldnt even use mutilate. All my abilitys have macroed:
Showtooltip#
/autoattack
/cast "special"
If it was lag, then I would think my damage output wouldnt tapper off as much as it did. Typically would drop 5+ spots on the meter within the time it took to start attacking again.
/autoattack doesn't exist. If that is the exact line that all your abilities have, then that would be your problem. I can't say for sure... but you might have started attacking again because you hit right click on your mouse or something that would naturally induce auto attacking.
@Prof. Hurt- If by attack mode you mean as soon as you come close you'll start attacking with melee swings... yes it did, and I think the frog tests proved it still does. If you mean it put you into combat (locking out stealth) when you pressed it... I'm not sure, but to the best of my knowledge it never did that until you actually hit the mobs.
So I picked up Heartpierce yesterday played around on how effective it could be. On a dummy without using SnD and a 1.4 speed OH, uptime of the buff was around 45% (6 procs./min quite some overlapping) on a 5 minute session. Then I did another 5 minutes session with me doing my regular rotation (3+ CP envenoms, SnD up) the buff uptime was 72% (9 Procs/min) then finally, I did reg ToC25 tonight and decided using it, the buff uptime for NB was around 74% (gotta consider the downtimes tho), had a 89% uptime on Jaraxuss (Stayed on boss the whole time, never got legion flames) and 83% on twins. We have an enhacement shaman in raid (so 20% haste) and BL was used on every fights. I also raid with a retarded amoutn of hit due to my guild having pretty lame drop and death's choice dropping 1 time on regular and twice on heroic. I was pretty surprised on the proc rate espeically after reading the earlier posts.
I'll post the reports as soon as I get back home.
I've been doing more dummy testing. The latest test used identical gear to my previous tests; this time I added poisons (IP MH, DP OH). Since my test setup uses a 1.3 base speed OH dagger and 22.45% total haste, DP only fell off twice during 54m30s of autoattacks. Previous autoattack sessions with identical gear but no poisons had uptimes around 30%. With poisons, it's 51.8%.
I also did a little bit of testing in full raid gear with poisons, doing my normal cycle (4+ envenom). That test was only about 16 minutes long, but uptime for it was about 74%, similar to your ToC25 result.
Given these results I think it's likely that Heartpierce is proccing off everything: autoattacks, poisons, CP builders, finishers. Probably bleed ticks too. I'm going to try to do some more autoattack testing without poisons to nail down the proc rate; I'll report back with exact numbers when I'm done.
I've been noticing odd behavior with my /startattack /cast Mutilate macro as well, but it started just before 3.3 for me: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
I had problems with /startattack today in the Deathwhisper encounter. It involves alot of target changing, and once i used my mutilate macro on one of the mobs with high physical damage reduction it would neither cast mutilate (i did not have enough energy) nor did it start attacking. I kept pushing the button but nothing happened and i got stuck on 100 energy not doing anything untill i detargeted completely and retargeted a mob again. It might have been weird lag behaviour tho, our server is working on it's limits.
Only issue I've had with /startattack is on Marrowgar where after I get spiked, I can do specials but white swings don't happen. If I hit escape and deselect/stop attacking, then rehit my /startattack macro, I start swinging again. I've always had the same issue with similar effects, like Slag Pot in Ulduar.
Hunger for Blood now increases damage by 10% instead of 15%. We wanted to increase Assassination rogue damage, and we were succesful, but we overshot the mark. We buffed Hunger for Blood back when Assassination needed a damage boost, so we're more than happy that this talent won't account for such a huge dps increase. Because of the nature of hotfixes, it is unlikely the tooltip will change to 10% right away.
Hunger for Blood now increases damage by 10% instead of 15%. We wanted to increase Assassination rogue damage, and we were succesful, but we overshot the mark. We buffed Hunger for Blood back when Assassination needed a damage boost, so we're more than happy that this talent won't account for such a huge dps increase. Because of the nature of hotfixes, it is unlikely the tooltip will change to 10% right away.
The fun is over
Honestly, a 5% nerf to HFB is hardly 'the fun being over' - it's more in line, but it's still way out in front of Combat, and, for that matter, most other DPS.
Hunger for Blood now increases damage by 10% instead of 15%. We wanted to increase Assassination rogue damage, and we were succesful, but we overshot the mark. We buffed Hunger for Blood back when Assassination needed a damage boost, so we're more than happy that this talent won't account for such a huge dps increase. Because of the nature of hotfixes, it is unlikely the tooltip will change to 10% right away.
The fun is over
Just read this, should count as a straight 5% nerf from damage. Doubt it will make much of a change in mutilate still being the top spec by a fairly large margin. Not sure how I feel about this yet.
BiS estimates had Mut 10% ahead of Combat. This nerf will put Mut 5% of combat single-target, a gap close enough that sacrificing some single target dps for better target switching/ae/cooldowns is much more reasonable. Even 10% was feasible (Blade Flurry hitting two targets alone could make up for it), although the gap was larger with our current levels of gear (and will close as we improve our gear).
They may need to tweak it again as our gear improves, but at least HfB is an easy enough ability to buff/nerf to throttle us up/down.
On purely sustained fights Mutilate will still win. But it trims the margin at high gear levels from 10% to 5%, which is in the range where the practical considerations of fights may make up the difference. It might need a bit more tweaking, but it certainly seems to me that this is approaching the point where Mutilate will own straight up tank and spanks (like Saurfang) but Combat can pull ahead on fights with more interruptions, targets, or other such mechanics (like several of the other fights we've seen).
Hm, the mouseover tooltip for damage reads 104% without HfB active (due to Murder) but 118% with HfB. Is the client rounding something up or is glyphed HfB really 14% and not 13%? Dummies prepare to get Gouged...
edit: 951 non crit Gouge with HfB, 841 non crit without. Definitely 13% despite what the tooltip might say.
On purely sustained fights Mutilate will still win. But it trims the margin at high gear levels from 10% to 5%, which is in the range where the practical considerations of fights may make up the difference. It might need a bit more tweaking, but it certainly seems to me that this is approaching the point where Mutilate will own straight up tank and spanks (like Saurfang) but Combat can pull ahead on fights with more interruptions, targets, or other such mechanics (like several of the other fights we've seen).
Kind of off topic, but is there an easy way to figure out exactly how much savage combat is benefiting your raid? Considering we run caster heavy and in light of the new mutilate nerf it might actually be worth it for us to run one combat rogue but officers would like an exact number first.
Kind of off topic, but is there an easy way to figure out exactly how much savage combat is benefiting your raid? Considering we run caster heavy and in light of the new mutilate nerf it might actually be worth it for us to run one combat rogue but officers would like an exact number first.
If you use World of Logs, on any parse you can go to the dropdown menu, select Analyze->Damage Done, and then enter the phrase "school=PHYSICAL" (without quotes) into the Expression box. Hit Go and you should see a breakdown of physical damage done, along with a total/ dps number at the bottom. Other filtering options are available of course, but that should do it.
12/10/09, 2:03 AM
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