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Old 03/09/10, 11:28 PM   #1076
Abyssalhand
Glass Joe
 
Abyssalhand
Undead Rogue
 
Non-US/EU Server
Feint is like an main-hand attack without direct damage. While glyphed, it's like you get a new ability to proc poison/weapon-enchant/trinkets every 10 seconds.

However, we have only 3 major glyph slots, which to give up?
Mut-spec: 1) ToTT 2) HfB 3) Mut
Combat-spec: 1) ToTT 2) KS 3) SS

In terms of DPS, Glyph of Feint wins none of those.
 
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Old 03/10/10, 11:49 AM   #1077
Crevan
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Originally Posted by Abyssalhand View Post
In terms of DPS, Glyph of Feint wins none of those.
But you wouldn't be using it to boost your dps, now would you? Take Sindragosa as an example: here damage output is not as important as coordination and survival. So, while you'll be lowering your dps by using glyph of feint, you'll lower the pressure on your healers, and probably live (and hence deal damage) for longer. So, if your healers are struggling to keep you alive on a fight like this one, it's a viable option.
 
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Old 03/10/10, 3:54 PM   #1078
 Maestroquark
What would you have me do?
 
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Orc Rogue
 
<SCP>
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Crevan View Post
But you wouldn't be using it to boost your dps, now would you? Take Sindragosa as an example: here damage output is not as important as coordination and survival. So, while you'll be lowering your dps by using glyph of feint, you'll lower the pressure on your healers, and probably live (and hence deal damage) for longer. So, if your healers are struggling to keep you alive on a fight like this one, it's a viable option.
There is nothing stopping you from using Feint when you don't have the Feint glyph. The glyph does not increase your survivability.

Before you start to drift, and your soul begins to scream.
I just wanted to tell you, that you're listening to a dream.
 
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Old 03/10/10, 6:12 PM   #1079
Rahdik
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Rogue
 
Earthen Ring
Originally Posted by Maestroquark View Post
There is nothing stopping you from using Feint when you don't have the Feint glyph. The glyph does not increase your survivability.
It does, however it is minimal. If you don't have the energy to use Feint, you can't get the benefit. With the glyph you can use it immediately off cooldown if necessary. Though the argument can be made, you should anticipate having to use Feint and make sure you have the energy to do so.
 
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Old 03/10/10, 9:22 PM   #1080
Joigahdenn
Piston Honda
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Turalyon
The point here is that a diligent player can Feint when needed without incurring the DPS loss of using the glyph, especially since it only requires the foresight to have 20 energy. Since the glyph only affects dps and not survivability for those players, switching from a higher dps glyph to Glyph of Feint isn't worthwhile.
 
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Old 03/11/10, 3:08 AM   #1081
Ubergeek248
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Stormscale
Originally Posted by Joigahdenn View Post
The point here is that a diligent player can Feint when needed without incurring the DPS loss of using the glyph, especially since it only requires the foresight to have 20 energy. Since the glyph only affects dps and not survivability for those players, switching from a higher dps glyph to Glyph of Feint isn't worthwhile.
From the other side of the looking glass however, a prepared player can Feint when needed without incurring the DPS loss of a 20 energy cost, especially since it only requires the foresight to change your glyph before the pull.

On any fight where you plan to feint on cd, the new glyph of feint has got to be worth more DPS than glyph of mutilate. This is assuming you are not mutilating more than once every 2.5 seconds of course.
 
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Old 03/11/10, 10:12 AM   #1082
 gwystyl
Circus Peanut Quality Control
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by Ubergeek248 View Post
From the other side of the looking glass however, a prepared player can Feint when needed without incurring the DPS loss of a 20 energy cost, especially since it only requires the foresight to change your glyph before the pull.

On any fight where you plan to feint on cd, the new glyph of feint has got to be worth more DPS than glyph of mutilate. This is assuming you are not mutilating more than once every 2.5 seconds of course.

Swapping out that glyph will cost your raid quite a bit of dps no matter how you slice it. For Combat, your best choice is to swap out Glyph of Sinister Strike for it. Mutilate would drop Glyph of Mutilate. Combat pays a smaller price for it, but it's still a pretty big sacrifice. We have yet to see a fight with a need to Feint on cooldown. Using Feint situationally doesn't require sacrificing a major glyph slot. It requires watching your boss timers and being in melee range when you need to Feint.

Let healers do their job, which is to keep you alive. You do your job and help out on big, timed, spike damage that's inescapable by Feinting before it hits. Your other (and primary) job is to make the boss's health hit 0 as fast as possible.
 
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Old 03/11/10, 12:33 PM   #1083
Lightshadow
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Stormrage
It's worth noting that the usual analysis for the glyph of killing spree really only applies to pure tank and spank fights. On fights with adds like deathwhisper or dreamwalker, it's often better to save KS so it lines up with BF. On fights with adds that you don't want to hit (the timing for saurfang's beasts is particularly bad, but princes and LK phase 1 also come to mind) you often need to waste some of the glyph anyway. The spreadsheet analysis is all well and good for the general case, but optimization really requires some fight-specific thinking.

As long as you know someone that does inscription, the cost of swapping glyphs between progression fights should be well below the cost of speed pots.
 
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Old 03/11/10, 2:17 PM   #1084
liftir
Glass Joe
 
Troll Rogue
 
Lethon
There's only three fights/situations that I can think of where Glyph of Feint would possibly have a higher benefit than other glyphs available.

1) Heroic Deathwhisper during phase 2. Energy shortages can become problematic since you might be expected to interrupt frostbolts, DPS the boss/adds and Feint whenever a ghost wave is coming in.

2) Heroic Saurfang, however this would only be useful if you get a Mark of the Fallen Champion on you. Glyph of Feint would be a huge gain since you can Feint on CD to reduce the damage you are taking from Mark of the Fallen Champion at no energy cost. A large benefit but obviously dependent on if you get a Mark on you or not.

3) Lich King during phase 3 when Vile Spirits are being spawned. Depending on your raid's strategy, if they have rogues staying on Lich King you can safely eat a few Vile Spirit explosions if you have Feint up. Glyph of Feint would allow you to use more energy for DPS'ing LK.

2 and 3 are highly situational and not at all necessary. I can see someone switching to Glyph of Feint if they have a problem with energy conservation or raid awareness, but it seems like most of the glyph's benefits can be negated with awareness and forethought.
 
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