Chack

MH: (5000/14+605)*0.7 = 673
OH: (5000/14+423)*0.75*0.7 = 410

Also FoK will hit 5 targets, but Bladeflurry will copy the 4 FoK hits onto anub, aslong as he is the only target in mele range. And the best weapon setup (in the fok phases) is most likely fist mainhand and a slow dagger offhand.

 

Leto

The 4 FoK's in 6 seconds was with a full energy bar pooled. Without any energy saved, AR would up your regeneration to 22.5 energy/second without combat potency procs. That's one FoK in a little over 2 seconds as opposed to a little over 3 without AR.

You also missed a lot in the calculations... AR isn't normalized to the best of my knowledge, and the debuffs, crits, talents, etc affect the damage a LOT.

You'd most likely get 7 or 8 FoK's off under the effects of AR/BF... at probably somewhere around 2k average phys dmg to each add including crits, etc. That would add up to about ~65 thousand damage to anub from blade flurry under ideal circumstances (waiting to make sure your FoK is hitting all 4 adds and they aren't in melee range).

Rogue at heart.

 

Othieus

Ya, I was afraid that it seemed a little too simple. I'll look up more information about how to do game mechanic calculations for future use.

 

Ends

I fail to see where this is optimal for a 2 add tank fight. The adds need to die evenly and consistently. I don't understand the notion that you are "losing" blade flurry DPS. You gain nothing from having one of the adds die sooner. If anything you lengthen the amount of time it takes for the adds you are shifted from to die. In effect, you are losing single target dps time on Anub which is the most important aspect of the fight. When properly positioned a rogue can stand in the middle of anub and hit all 4 adds having all the blade flurry damage from FoK hitting him. This maximizes single target DPS on Anub and provides the most even DPS on the adds.

I agree that shifting will very likely produce higher DPS numbers for parses, but to me this is simply padding, and bad advice.

 

Killme888

Nowhere in his post does he imply 2 tank, in fact with his advice I'm pretty sure he's talking about 1 add tank in which shifting helps with aggro not damage.

 

Nerio

Even if you solo tank, its very possible to position yourself so that your blade flurry hits will all go to Anub. Throughout about 150 attempts I've had <5% of my blade flurry damage on the adds and we use a solo tank strat. Doing this also eliminates any threat problems all together, along with the benefits of more Anub dps and even add dps.

 

Danen3

I'm curious about how long it takes your guilds to kill the adds?

We haven't downed Anub yet due to player performance issues but our AoE is so solid that we're getting the adds down in about 15-20 seconds leaving us with 10-15 seconds of straight dps on Anub.

We do about...27% average dmg to Anub per up phase.

My guild only has two rogues and I have him single target on Anub while I FoK the adds while targetting Anub. I use SS, Tricks, and FoK glyphs for this fight with the normal combat spec.

Saving BF and KS seems best for at the end of P1 when anub is pulled away so we can BF+KS the adds.

Our dps balance is very good so far, we just need people to stop making silly mistakes.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've found its not as important for us to nerf our single target so much for the sake of AoE.


Thoughts?

 

atroxes

There has already been brought plenty of information to the table regarding optimization of the Fan of Knives damage delivery on this fight, so I won't comment anymore on that.

What I will comment on though, is a Rogue's primary task on this fight, with the 1-tank strategy; Tricks of the Trade. Recently we were able to kill Anub'arak after many days of hard work over 2 resets. What finally made the fight possible for us, were two things.

1. Placing the Tank healers on the very north edge of the icy area, where you tank the adds. This maximizes the travel time for any adds that are accidentally targeting a Healer due to Healer aggro.

2. Bring 3-4 Rogues. With 3 it is perfectly doable, although bringing 4 is the safe route for a first kill. Then assign a "white hit" target for each Rogue. For example, you have a Rogue each targeting the NW, SW, NE and SE adds immediately when they spawn. Making sure that each Rogue makes white hit contact with the adds before it gets anywhere near the raid group, was what made the fight possible for us, with the 1-tank strategy. You lose 1-2 seconds on your TotT time, but if you make sure you have a full energy bar ready, you can still throw 2xFoK while TotT is still up, and that should be more than enough to stick those adds to the adds Tank until they're dead.


Proper use of Tricks of the Trade was what made the difference for our guild. It might be completely different problems you guys are struggling with, but I wanted to at least share the experience I gathered from many many hours of attempts

 

Cyrak

We only run 1 rogue (me), so we had the tank pick up the west side adds and a hunter md'd the 2 on the east. This is perfectly doable, but the aggro is really sketchy, so I can't ever screw up and the raid needs to have a lot of discipline about not dpsing adds till they have been picked up.

'Needing' multiple rogues is a myth, but it'd certainly make life easier.

 

Veniversum

Most of the discussion is what would boost your dps this way or that way, and what would help aggro here or there...

We have no problem getting the 4 adds to the single add tank. We have no issues burning them down. And when we dont fuck around, we have no issues getting to phase 3. Our sole problem in our attempts is Shadow Strike. We use a ret paladin to holy wrath the adds when the timer is there, we have our BEs stand by for an AE silence if necessary, but when Anub' gets to around 23% or so, for some reason the paladin always misses it. he casts it in time, but it still seems to get off.

Do any of you resort to it being the rogue's responsibility to interrupt the adds? We currently are running with 3 to 4 rogues and 2 to 3 of us have mind numbing equipped on our OH. What strategy do your guilds use for the interrupts that are more efficient, and is it honestly pointless for us to use mind numbing?

The paladin actually tried to blame me today because MNP was on my OH and not my MH and he said if it were on my MH there'd be less of an issue. I explained to him that FoK hits with both weapons and that i have well over 315 hit rating to ensure the poisons wont miss. 3 rogues spamming fok that have MNP guarantees no add will go without it... His response was putting me on ignore.

 

atroxes

Use a boss-mod with a proper Shadow Strike timer. Deus Vox Encounters or Big Wigs did the job for us.

 

Tofuu

There's a reason that the shadow strike timer starts to deviate from the DXE suggested timers. Anub essentially "signals" the adds to cast shadow strike and this action is built in with an internal CD. However, this internal CD timer can be delayed if Anub decides to cast his frozen slash the moment the timer for shadow strike is up. Therefore, you almost never see an early shadow strike or a late shadow strike on the first few sets of adds but the timer problem becomes evident during phase 3. Each time Anub casts frozen slash when the shadow strike signal timer is up, shadow strike timer gets delayed by a fraction of a second and after several adds phase, there will be an evident deviation from DXE suggested shadow strike timer.

The Best way to tank him is just to have two add tanks and do a "butterfly" positioning. Two permafrost on the sides of anubarak where the adds are tanked. The two permafrost and the adds must be positioned in a way so that AOE on all four adds are possible and they only get 2 stacks of haste buff from proximity. With Mindnumbing, shadow strike will no longer be a problem.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/a...34&e=758#Tofuu

I make baby cry.

 

sp00n

With two add tanks, you don't actually need mind numbing to interrupt, as the cast time is long enough for the tanks/holy paladins to perform shockwave/holy wrath.

 

Averiel

Adds shadowstrike based on a timer, which is if I recall, based on when the encounter starts, I think it was every 30s.

Regardless of your tank strat, you just need one ret paladin with HW glyph to stun 1-2s before that 30s pulse. Just make sure no one else stunned the adds (no shockwave either) so there's no DR on the adds. Once the adds come out of stun, it is now past the 30s mark, and they will not cast shadowstrike until the next 30s pulse hits.

 

Cyrak

Have your offtank tank the adds inside Anub's hitbox, and have the entire raid jammed into that area also. Soulstone a single hunter and have him at max range. Shadow Strike is coded to prefer ranged, so this can be used as a failsafe incase the interrupt misses. They will kill the hunter, he can rez, and you can re-stone him or brez if it happens again.

 

Kytrarewn

You have plenty of time to DPS the four adds at the end of P1 one way or another, and KS could throw you onto the frost patch and get you permafrost which could hurt your kiting ability or waste a hand of freedom that might not otherwise be needed.

I tend to use KS after the first set of adds is killed in P1. It's a very solid single target ability, and as such might as well be used for the DPS on the "important" target (ie. getting to phase 3 quickly when the adds die fast enough on their own, and killing the P1-P2 transition adds isn't nearly as important as killing the first set of adds each phase).

Ah well, it's the sort of fight that can be done a whole lot of different ways with different interruptors, block tanks, stunners, number of tanks, kite paths, etc.

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


Jesus don't want me in a sunbeam
Sunbeams are always made on me
Don't expect me to cry, for all the reasons I'm gonna die
Don't ever ask your kick of me.

 

mamapete

Has anybody considered 23-5-43 glyphing FOK, tricks, and rupture?
It is my understanding that the envenom buff applies to FOK, and you should be able get the CBP's to envenom primarily through HaT, and the rest of your energy could be devoted to fanning IP.
Weapon swapping to 2.6/2.6 with double IP after envenom might be alright too. (or maybe 1.8/1.8dags)
Uh.
And the other alteration I would offer is that taking vigor / vigor glyph (over rupture) gives more pooling options and bigger tricks.

 

Leto

I considered that, and it appeared to be inferior in almost every way to the standard specs. It lacks the high damage enhancing talents from the top of the assassination and combat trees (hfb, find weakness, prey on the weak) and the energy regen talents (focused attacks, vitality, and combat potency).

Rogue at heart.

 

Mideci

What makes the fist the MH weapon of choice? Is it just that you are assuming CQC because there's a dagger OH and the best OH-es are daggers?

 

Leto

CQC interacts with FoK while HnS does not. Mace spec is technically better for FoK than CQC, but it does not affect the dagger off hand. I have not yet determined whether mace mh, dagger off hand would be better than fist mh... partially because it is low priority since the only mace better than the fist drops off anub anyway.

Rogue at heart.

 

Danen3

I really don't think there needs to be a focus for rogues to do as much AoE as possible on anub. It's nice to be able to help out somewhat with FoK glyph but a rogue is most effective during the burn phases while the adds are down.

You'll never be the heart of the raids AoE. It's better to be strong at single target and have decent AoE than to have poor single target and above average AoE.

 

fnfal

I've done 3 HM 25 Anub kills now, including Insanity(25). Pretty much the fight for us as a class is about aoe and threat transferrence, while piling as much white hit/poison procs on Anub as humanly possible. I have the luxury slot as far as tricks goes, I hit another dps becuase the other two rogues are capable of putting out enough threat on the add tanks that the raid dps benefit is higher if I focus on boosting some insane DK cleave action.

Rogues are in the near-top slots on damage done to Anub while aoe spec'd on the parses I've run (2 of 5 top slots, and within 2% of each top dpser except for the insanely scaling TG warrior). On the last kill, 67.7% of my damage was to Anub himself. I used 3 damage-causing finishers the entire fight. So did another rogue on the kill.

That said, we're attacking and killling adds until nearly the very end of the fight - the only 'burn phase' that matters is at the end and represents a small, tiny, horrible portion of the damage. To use "burn phase" before the end of P3 is a practical misnomer: Anub is taking enough damage that it's often more beneficial to let accumulated bug P2 add debuffs fade than go all-out into p3 as fast as possible. Add damage to the offtanks and getting adds down before the next wave comes is still a significant issue until the last 10% or less of Anub's health.

Executive summary from multiple kills: Tricks on target, keep S&D up, cleave off Anub, FOK, repeat. Throw a few finishers as Anub burrows or at the tail end of P3.

 

Danen3

Actually, we downed Anub tonight and its incredibly important for single target.

But I think I've been misunderstood. I'm not saying the AoE isn't important for the fight. What I'm saying is that its not necessary to put in a weird spec just to boost AoE.

The only spec change necessary is to take 3 from Relentless Strikes and put them into Vile Poisons.

Tricks your add to the tank, use those CPs you gained from that to SnD and target Anub and FoK until the adds are at 10% while keeping SnD if necessary, then switch to single target burn. Also, keep BF on cooldown. Repeat.

The best times I found to save AR for are on the very first wave of adds and then on the first add phase AFTER P3 starts.

We actually hit P3 halfway through our first add phase after the 2nd burrow.

Ignoring the second wave of adds and burning Anub until he burrows for every class is a big help as well.

 

Jarush

But not so helpful before second burrows if anub is going under 40% or so. What usually have happened to us is that Anub is already around 40% when second burrow ends so p3 hits when first wave of adds is still around 50%.

The perfect case would be that p3 starts at the same second you have killed first wave of adds after second burrow. Ignoring boss dps (if boss is already around 45%) and focusing last wave of adds before second burrow not only helps in before mentioned but also helps you clearing swarm scarabs faster.

 

Andeh

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet is Blade Twisting. The guild I'm in only has 2 Rogues, so our Tricks is used for both picking up the south adds and helping build threat for AOE. We consistently ran into problems where adds would get dazed by Blade Twisting, slowing them in, and thus the tank wouldn't build enough threat by the time AOE started. Last night, after 2 attempts in a row where the Rogues (!) managed to pull agro during AOE after 1 or 2 of the adds were slow getting in due to Blade Twisting, we both respec'd out of it. After that, we noticed our overall AOE was better due to all the adds getting in at the same time, the Rogues getting more FOK off on all of the adds while under Tricks, raid AOE being able to start sooner, and less chance that 1 or 2 adds would remain at higher health requiring single target burns. Although, I might also be a little bit biased because 2 or 3 pulls later, we had our first kill.

Of course, if you run 3 or more Rogues, this probably doesn't matter as much, since at least one of them can hold off on using Tricks + FOK until all of the adds are in range.