Anub'arak Hard Mode Tips - Page 5

Leto · 11/06/09, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by MassMan

The reason no sort of consensus on what weapons are ideal for anub is that no clear winner exists. I've yet to see an example combatlog blowing all other weapon combos away. Personally I use mace spec and fast offhand with no weapon switching for FoK. I did try some 1.8 offhand switching but the lesser combat potency procs more than countered the increased FoK offhand damage. Plus, fidling with weaponswitching wasting gcds when you're supposed to Tott adds off healers isn't ideal.
I've rather consistantly broken 10k dps using mace+1.4dagger and my gear level seems on par with the other log examples given in here.

I just compared off hand weapon speed differences with mine and Aldriana's spreadsheet and saw the following results for me:

1.4 speed to 1.8 speed was about a 430 dps increase in sustained aoe dps on 5 targets.
1.4 speed to 1.8 speed was about a 200 dps decrease in sustained single target dps.

I would imagine the actual results on anub would be skewed in favor more of the aoe increase, since burst aoe would favor a slower weapon, though it would vary with how fast your raid kills adds. If you are constantly aoeing, it would likely be best to just keep the 1.8 speed off hand equipped.

I'm unsure what difference weapon swapping would make, but I imagine it would be worthwhile.

Leto · 11/06/09, 12:41 PM

Ok, I just did some preliminary modifications to my spreadsheet to account for mace spec, and it looks like with my gear, using Remorseless with mace spec and 1/5 cqc is likely a 100 dps increase for FoK over using Spinebreaker with 5/5 cqc. I used Heroic Twin Spike as the off hand for both setups.

• Feist-Mok · 11/06/09, 2:49 PM

Originally Posted by Leto

Ok, I just did some preliminary modifications to my spreadsheet to account for mace spec, and it looks like with my gear, using Remorseless with mace spec and 1/5 cqc is likely a 100 dps increase for FoK over using Spinebreaker with 5/5 cqc. I used Heroic Twin Spike as the off hand for both setups.

How does Double Mace compare out of curiosity to the dagger OH? Swapping to a fast OH for single target and a 245 mace for AE seems ideal for FoK damage when the AE is as bursty and spread out as it is on Anub.

Also, is there any particular reason you'd compare Remorseless to the Spinebreaker? Why not use the Heroic Grinder to make it an apples to apples comparison with 245 weapons in both cases.

Leto · 11/06/09, 3:03 PM

When I reconfigured it, it showed remorseless in the oh as well being ~160 dps less sustained than twin spike, and about the same while AR is active. There was a larger discrepancy while using deadly poison in the off hand though: about a 500 dps difference. A dagger will hit harder, but the mace has more poison procs, though that is counter-acted by the loss of combat potency procs.

I would imagine if you pool energy before an AR, the slow mace would be slightly more effective, but for every other wave the dagger would be.

I compared Remorseless to Spinebreaker because those are the two main hands I personally have to choose from.

I just did a comparison between Spinebreaker and Heroic Grinder, and it looks like Spinebreaker barely came out ahead, though largely due to its better stats.

Hassam · 11/09/09, 9:59 AM

Originally Posted by Lokthra

Since I am using tricks on add tanks, I am unable to tricks the MT, and often find myself pulling aggro during my opening sequence (3pt SnD, BF, KS, [pull aggro] then ss->evis). I have never died from this, and more recently have started using evasion prior to the KS, but I was just thinking that there may be a better way to do this. This is mainly regarding KS usage, and if anyone has a better way of doing things. I generally find myself popping it on the pull, at the beginning of every P1, and between add waves in P3. Obviously in my case a lot of this is a result of our group comp and specific circumstances, but if anyone raids in a similar situation I would love to hear it if you have a different (preferably better) way of using CDs.

Co'ordinate with your hunters to have the first group of adds MDed to your tanks. If you pop TOTT on the MT pre-KS in the first few seconds of the fight (3pt SnD, BF, TOTT, KS) it should be off CD by the time your DPS clues in to taking down the adds and so you will be able to use it on the OT in order to keep his threat topped off.

If no hunters, it may be best to try your chances with the evasion OR save Killing Spree until P2 to nuke down the remaining burrower(s). If you're glyphed for KS and are moving for a single P2 then you will have KS ready for P3 if it is used on borrowers on P2. Whether you can use it in P1, 2 and 3 really depends on how long your team keeps the burrowers alive for (I'd presume not long but you never know) but it's feasible with a 1.15min cool-down.

Maltese · 11/10/09, 9:40 AM

Does Feint work on reducing damage taken by leaching swarm like I assume it does? If so then best case scenario if a rogue is under 2k health thats an effective swing of 600 dps for 6 seconds for 20 energy (minimum tick for 600, reducing healing done by 300 hps and the 300 dps you'd need to overcome that). Obviously more if the rogue is over 2k health while getting healed through penetrating cold.

khaavren · 11/10/09, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Lokthra

With that out of the way, I do have a question about the beginning of the fight. Out of habit I tend to use my cooldowns as early as is plausible for the fight in order to use them more. Due to the unpredictable nature of KS (jumping to burrowers and getting slowed on the ice, etc), I unload that along with blood fury at the beginning, while saving the rest for the first wave of adds. Since I am using tricks on add tanks, I am unable to tricks the MT, and often find myself pulling aggro during my opening sequence (3pt SnD, BF, KS, [pull aggro] then ss->evis). I have never died from this, and more recently have started using evasion prior to the KS, but I was just thinking that there may be a better way to do this. This is mainly regarding KS usage, and if anyone has a better way of doing things. I generally find myself popping it on the pull, at the beginning of every P1, and between add waves in P3. Obviously in my case a lot of this is a result of our group comp and specific circumstances, but if anyone raids in a similar situation I would love to hear it if you have a different (preferably better) way of using CDs.

I have tried a couple of different ways in TOGC10. I am most comfortable with popping KS after I get snd up and the boss is sundered. Immediately after KS I vanish. By then the adds are up and I TOT, BF and start FOK.

animagic · 11/10/09, 11:11 AM

Feint does not work on Leeching Swarm

Stybba · 11/17/09, 2:11 AM

So all in all it´s best as a Rogue in 25man Hero to use a 18/51/2 Combat Spec, WP/DP on a Slow Mainhand and fast Offhand, with AR or KS + SS + FoK Glyphs?!

You should also use AR+BF on the first addspawns and KS on the 2nd (while following the boss) ?!

And does the 18/51/2 rly do significantly more dmg than the 15/51/5 or only slightly? Thanks already.

zhrgg · 11/17/09, 8:44 AM

My 'rotation' for Anub would be simply getting a 5pt SnD up first then Tricks to adds tank -> BF+KS -> FoK, and for the second wave, Tricks -> AR+FoK. He burrows, and the third wave is met again with ToTT -> BF+KS -> FoK, but no CDs for the 4th wave. By the 5th wave, we'll have him down to 30%, and constant management of BF+KS/AR+FoK for separate waves gets aggro to the tank well. I find glyphing SS for Anub wasteful, and AR/KS/FoK are the most beneficial. Bear in mind that this glyphing applies only to Anub and no other fight.

Leto · 11/17/09, 9:53 AM

There isn't a clear-cut "best" way to do the fight, as it varies depending on your guild's strategy and what is most difficult for them to overcome.

Quinine · 11/17/09, 9:57 AM

I personally disagree with that,

1) You should use KS right after the pull, and BF+AR on the first wave
2) When the submerge phase ends, you should KS before the wave, use BF on the first wave, and save AR
3) When the second submerge phase ends, use KS before the wave, and use AR+BF on the first wave again
4) Now you should be in p3, use KS when there are no adds, and AR/BF on CD
5) Glyphing on SS is nice, allows you to keep SND more easily. I personally use AR SS and FOK glyphs

Edit : Was respondig to zhrgg

Yuntiff · 11/17/09, 12:08 PM

With permafrost slowing you to the extent it does, KS seems too risky when adds are up because of the the (high) chance you'll end up stuck in frost, wasting much of the time you could be spending FoKing. Granted, this would be much less of a problem on a one add tank strat, but KSing with adds up in any other scenario (BF or not) is just too RNG based for my taste.

dazed420 · 11/17/09, 1:10 PM

Originally Posted by Yuntiff

With permafrost slowing you to the extent it does, KS seems too risky when adds are up because of the the (high) chance you'll end up stuck in frost, wasting much of the time you could be spending FoKing. Granted, this would be much less of a problem on a one add tank strat, but KSing with adds up in any other scenario (BF or not) is just too RNG based for my taste.

But its not risky and the reason for that is that KS will break snares allowing you a second after it ends to have normal run speed to get out and if you do it early enough that you end up in the middle of a patch you still have time to slowly strafe out to be able to tot the enxt set of adds.

Kalebdarkkat · 11/17/09, 4:28 PM

I am aware of the apparent Savage Combat bug occurring with the dual wielding of Wound Poison. Here is a thread briefly discussing it in case you missed it:

World of Warcraft (en) Forums -> [bug] Savage Combat & Wound Poison

I am wondering if this in any way affects the healing debuff applied to Anub'arak? Any knowledgeable feedback here would be greatly appreciated, as we have 3 rogues in raid using Wound Poison.

Russ · 11/17/09, 4:51 PM

There's nothing with the bug that would make me think this has any such effect. The Wound Poison debuff responsible for the -50% Healing Taken effect stays up constantly. it's the Savage Combat debuff (4% physical damage taken) that appears to toggle on and off.

miyazma · 11/19/09, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Quinine

I personally disagree with that,

1) You should use KS right after the pull, and BF+AR on the first wave
2) When the submerge phase ends, you should KS before the wave, use BF on the first wave, and save AR
3) When the second submerge phase ends, use KS before the wave, and use AR+BF on the first wave again
4) Now you should be in p3, use KS when there are no adds, and AR/BF on CD
5) Glyphing on SS is nice, allows you to keep SND more easily. I personally use AR SS and FOK glyphs

Edit : Was respondig to zhrgg

Haven't gotten to p3 yet (45%) but this is generally what I do, instead start by SS 1 CP SnD, then SS to 5 CP SnD, then I SS until 4 or 5 CPs by that time the adds are in place, I'll blow KS, BF, AR FoK spam until adds are dead and I'll use the 4 or 5 CPs that are saved up for SnD once the previous has worn. This is just the fight starting line up. Thought I might share. :P

Flightform · 11/20/09, 7:53 PM

So I've got a question for you all.
How do you guys position yourselves at the beginning of each add phase in a single add tank setup?
Currently I'm my guilds only active rogue, but we usually have two hunters helping to MD the farthest adds.
Some have suggested that I run out and tricks an add while the tank grabs the other one.
I feel that this is a gross waste of potential DPS and AE misdirects because of the time spent mobile.

Do most of you just stack up behind anub and wait for the adds to be brought in, or are you proactive about grabbing them before they reach the patch?

Other than that, this thread has been of enormous help to me! I appreciate all the good information. My guild is now getting him consistently to 30% so we can work out the healing intricacies in that phase. Hopefully we will have him down this week!

Leto · 11/20/09, 11:39 PM

An important thing to consider when deciding how to tricks the add to the tank is the angle that it will approach him. Many different ways will work, but be careful to prevent the add approaching from his side or back, as all the block in the world won't help him then.

We use two tanks though, so I can't suggest anything detailed with regards to timing and positioning, especially since where you drop your patch and position your raid may vary.

dardz · Yesterday, 3:17 AM

We use a single block tank strat.

Hunter MDs back two adds, I do top left/west, warrior taunts top right/east. Since I have FoK glyph I usually still have around 5 seconds to get a few FoKs off on all 4 mobs.

Warrior shoots up in agro once he has 9 stacks and pops his trinket.

Still haven't downed anub, cause of healing issues with penetrating cold in p3. But we basically picked up the strat in say around 2hrs.

Best attempt, 22% so far. We should have him for this lockout hopefully.

Do you guys that down him, use frost protection pots for p3?

greenjello · Yesterday, 4:40 AM

Originally Posted by dardz

We use a single block tank strat.

Hunter MDs back two adds, I do top left/west, warrior taunts top right/east. Since I have FoK glyph I usually still have around 5 seconds to get a few FoKs off on all 4 mobs.

Warrior shoots up in agro once he has 9 stacks and pops his trinket.

Still haven't downed anub, cause of healing issues with penetrating cold in p3. But we basically picked up the strat in say around 2hrs.

Best attempt, 22% so far. We should have him for this lockout hopefully.

Do you guys that down him, use frost protection pots for p3?

We have the majority of our DPS and healers use frost protection pots either once their health drops sub 10% (those with slower reaction times) or the second they get penetrating cold (those with faster reaction times). I personally don't use them on every attempt since I can cloak penetrating cold, but I frequently used them during learning attempts.

I'm always surprised when I hear about guilds using hunters and/or a single rogue to get these adds onto their tank. Our fury warrior, mages, and death knights blow up the adds so fast that even 3 rogues glyphed for tricks of the trade and running out several seconds early to misdirect threat are barely enough to keep these things glued to the add tank.

Aceydubs · Yesterday, 5:32 PM

Originally Posted by JarL

Has anyone tried something like 8/20/43 w/ FoK, Hemo, and SnD glyphed? This fight seems like a perfect one for honor among thieves as your CP generator. Maintain FoK spam while dumping eviscerates into Anub and maintaining SnD solely off of HaT. I think that I'll offspec this for my next 25 anub HM night and see how it performs.

JarL, What were your findings upon use of this spec during the encounter? Has anyone else attempted this spec? If so please report.

Saan · Yesterday, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by dardz

Do you guys that down him, use frost protection pots for p3?

Yeah, my guild lays out a frost cauldron so everyone can grab a pot. I pop it as soon as p3 comes up, unless I already have the frost debuff on me. If it is on me already, it shouldn't be trouble healing me since I'm already at full life anyhow. Once things are clear, I drink it. I try and save my CloS for the debuff as well. This way I can try and CloS it off before the first tick so I still have the frost pot on me in case I get it a second time. If I get it a third time (and it's happened) then I pop my healthstone as a buffer for the healers.

We generally only have one rogue (me) and two hunters for agro redirection when we do this fight, so learning to keep ourselves alive was key.