I tried Vanish-immune on the blistering cold, and for some odd reason every time I did that Sindragosa would screw up her positioning and the tank would have to re-position her. Not sure if this is because of the vanish or something else, but over 9 attempts it did seem like there was a pattern that every time I vanished the aoe she would move weirdly.
Doubt it had anything to do with you. Her positioning behaviour is very temperamental after a blistering cold cast, and the tank needs to move into her hitbox a little during when she pulls everyone else in, otherwise she tends to shift forward. This was occuring almost every time that I forgot to step in a little when tanking her on 10 and 25 this week, regardless of our rogues vanishing or not. There's some sort of hitbox issue in play, I don't think my druid co-tanks had the same issues that I did as a blood elf.
Hm, I wonde, is vanishing Blistering Cold really worth it? I normally use CloS at around 8 stacks, and by the time she grips everybody I'm back at 3-6 stacks. Meaning that if I don't stop attacking and reset my debuff I might get in trouble and would have to stop attacking anyway if I'm unlucky with procs.
On the other hand, there's absolutely no other use for vanish in that fight as combat, so maybe these 3 or 4 extra seconds aren't that bad. Is it the normal behaviour, e.g. use vanish just when the cast finishes?
Has anybody tested whether Defile can be vanish-immuned? The location is dependent on the end of the cast, not the beginning, and since it is cast on a player, not on a specific place, it very well might be. I'll do some testing on 10 next week, but I'm too nervous to try it on 25 tonight.
I found that Sindragosa doesn't have to be such a pain once you get a system rolling.
My fight sequence:
Start all out blow cd's (with first tott on tank no threat worries)
Get to ~7 stacks use CoS and reset stacks
Get to ~5 stacks and this is when she uses her pull (causes a reset of stacks)
DPS hard again after pull then she flies up and you will have 5-6 stacks (easily heal able during air phase)
Now what I was wondering is weather SnD is better off not used (I know blasphemy right) because it will give us more time on target due to less debuffs stacking?
Hm, I wonde, is vanishing Blistering Cold really worth it? I normally use CloS at around 8 stacks, and by the time she grips everybody I'm back at 3-6 stacks. Meaning that if I don't stop attacking and reset my debuff I might get in trouble and would have to stop attacking anyway if I'm unlucky with procs.
On the other hand, there's absolutely no other use for vanish in that fight as combat, so maybe these 3 or 4 extra seconds aren't that bad. Is it the normal behaviour, e.g. use vanish just when the cast finishes?
I do play as combat currently and yes, there's no other use for vanish and I only use it when I get lucky on the lack of procs. When we pull I pop bf/ks with tricks on the tank then I pop AR once i hit 5-6 I cloak, and continue and once in a while that I get lucky where I have 3 stacks around 2 sec to falling off I'll just stop and let it fall off and then that's usually when she grips and I just vanish and continue.
From what I heard from rogues that are playing as assassination, it's a lot faster stacking up the debuff which sounds painful for that fight.
Now what I was wondering is weather SnD is better off not used (I know blasphemy right) because it will give us more time on target due to less debuffs stacking?
It is not a DPS increase to remove SnD from your rotation on this fight.
I found that Sindragosa doesn't have to be such a pain once you get a system rolling.
My fight sequence:
Start all out blow cd's (with first tott on tank no threat worries)
Get to ~7 stacks use CoS and reset stacks
Get to ~5 stacks and this is when she uses her pull (causes a reset of stacks)
DPS hard again after pull then she flies up and you will have 5-6 stacks (easily heal able during air phase)
Now what I was wondering is weather SnD is better off not used (I know blasphemy right) because it will give us more time on target due to less debuffs stacking?
You're not going to get enough added time on target without S&D for it to be anywhere near worth it. You just said yourself that you almost never have to stop attacking outside of the blistering cold and the air phase. The only time it would really matter is in phase 3 when you can easily die if you get above 3 or 4 stacks, but for the most part, in all the videos I've seen and things I've heard, rogues tend to spend most of their time attacking the frost tombs in phase 3 because of their stacks.
During P1 of the Litch King on 25 man when the 3 ghouls spawn I thought of a little trick if you have a pally OT.
We were having problems with tricksing/FoK the ghouls to the OT because one of the melee would pull one of the ghouls almost every time.
The fix: Had a ret pally try to get agro on 3 adds and I would tricks them to him also. Once the ret pally had agro the pally OT would taunt the 3 ghouls off him with his taunt that pulls up to 3 mobs off any one target.
Worked great! Only time it did not solve our agro problem was going from P1 to P2. The ghouls seem to go a bit crazy and makes it hard to dps spirit.
One of the problems we have with Arthas currently is that he moves around a LOT in P1. And by that, I mean he spins around in circles and walks back and forth, parrying half the melee's hits that aren't AOE. Is there some sort of scripting bug going on? In fact, the only times I can remember him remaining stationary was when he summoned ghouls. Granted, we get past P1 fine, but it's incredibly annoying.
One of the problems we have with Arthas currently is that he moves around a LOT in P1. And by that, I mean he spins around in circles and walks back and forth, parrying half the melee's hits that aren't AOE. Is there some sort of scripting bug going on? In fact, the only times I can remember him remaining stationary was when he summoned ghouls. Granted, we get past P1 fine, but it's incredibly annoying.
Arthas does not take positioning priority over the ghouls. They all jockey for position on your tank using some weird (and totally unnecessary) collision code. Since Arthas has the same priority as the ghouls, the ultimate boss of the expansion ends up stumbling around like some dopey freshman coming off a 3-day bender.
This is easily fixed by having your shambler tank get the ghouls too and be a few yards away from Arthas. Just make sure he's not too far that your tricks won't hit him.
Anyone know if Val'kyr Shadowguards are affected by crippling poison? I'm considering dropping 1 point in fleet footed and picking up 1 point in deadly brew to further help slow these mobs. Thoughts?
Is there any reason NOT to vanish immune the frost tomb on Sindragosa? I was hesitant to use it on Blistering Cold 1) in case it failed and I looked like a scrub 2) Sometimes I accrued the debuff stacks quickly and had to stop DPS, so I decided to give it a shot when I was targeted for being tombed.
I managed to pull it off and then our MT yelled at me for doing it. I see no reason not to and think it's because he keeps giving this excuse of being snared the entire fight and can only make it to 1 frost tomb (the one where I was) so he was going to get gibbed by a blast. I told him poppycock use Hand of Freedom >.>
If his excuse is valid, and it is okay to Vanish immune the tomb, I'll just make sure not to place myself where he needs to go.
Is there any reason NOT to vanish immune the frost tomb on Sindragosa? I was hesitant to use it on Blistering Cold 1) in case it failed and I looked like a scrub 2) Sometimes I accrued the debuff stacks quickly and had to stop DPS, so I decided to give it a shot when I was targeted for being tombed.
Use Vanish on Blistering Cold. If you're taking too much damage from your stacks, throw on another piece of FR gear. If you run out of range when Vanish is on CD, you should only have to run out twice during the entire fight. With a couple of pieces of FR gear, you can easily stack up to 7 or 8 before you cloak. P3 you will still have to switch to every second frost tomb to drop your stacks of Mystic Buffet.
During P1/P2, there is no reason NOT to be tombed. It's not like you can continue DPS on the boss or something while waiting for people to break the tombs. If the tombs aren't being broken on time, you have a lot more to worry about than whether or not you were tombed yourself. P3 you still need to take the tombs or you might break the tanks rhythm of dropping Mystic Buffet. That might be why he yelled at you.
Anyone know if Val'kyr Shadowguards are affected by crippling poison? I'm considering dropping 1 point in fleet footed and picking up 1 point in deadly brew to further help slow these mobs. Thoughts?
Yes they are affected by crippling poison.
I usually equip a 2nd dagger with crippling poison on it and when they spawn and are attackable, I use 1-3 Foks to apply the crippling poison on them then I switch back to my normal dps poison daggers. But this requires all your raid members to stand close to Lich King in order for your FoK to hit them.
Use Vanish on Blistering Cold. If you're taking too much damage from your stacks, throw on another piece of FR gear. If you run out of range when Vanish is on CD, you should only have to run out twice during the entire fight. With a couple of pieces of FR gear, you can easily stack up to 7 or 8 before you cloak. P3 you will still have to switch to every second frost tomb to drop your stacks of Mystic Buffet.
During P1/P2, there is no reason NOT to be tombed. It's not like you can continue DPS on the boss or something while waiting for people to break the tombs. If the tombs aren't being broken on time, you have a lot more to worry about than whether or not you were tombed yourself. P3 you still need to take the tombs or you might break the tanks rhythm of dropping Mystic Buffet. That might be why he yelled at you.
Sorry should have specified, this was all for P1 and 2. P3 we're still working on, we seem to have some issues on where people need to be when they get tombed.
I suppose your right on not really having much to do by vanishing a tomb, I'm certainly not the deal breaker of whether people die from lack of Tomb breakage. Although I do have Sprint and Rocket Boots so getting back from a Blistering Cold isn't too bad, but I see what you mean. I don't wear any FR though (don't have any >.>). Is that the only way Vanishing the BC will work?
You don't need FR to Vanish BC, no. Wearing FR allows you to stack Permeating Chill higher before needing to cloak or run out.
The stacks are going to fall off under one of these four conditions: (conditions are in a sequential order, not priority)
1) Your cloak and Vanish are both off cool down, and you're going to stay in for the BC. Let the PC stack as high as possible relative to your FR gear (they say 6 stacks for no FR gear) and then cloak when necessary.
2) Your vanish is down and you have to run out for Blistering Cold. You should only have to run out of the second Blistering Cold of each ground phase (see condition 1). The stacks will be gone by the time you're back in melee range. Do not cloak if vanish is not on CD unless you're about to die and you've already used your Healthstone.
3) After the second Blistering Cold each ground phase, Sindrigosa is going to start a flight phase soon, so hold off on using cloak if you didn't use it for condition 1 for any reason. When she lifts off and the raid moves to the stairs, the stacks will fall off on their own. If you have too many stacks, have your finger on your Healthstone.
4) During P3 you will have to switch to every second frost tomb to drop your stacks of Mystic Buffet. PC will fall off as well while killing the frost tomb.
I stack up to 12 stacks with 0 FR gear and don't really have trouble, but because of it I HAVE to cloak when he does the pull, because nobody is healing 6k hps while running away from the boss.
Here is how I do the fight:
Start off, we blood lust, I pop berserking, hyperspeed accelerators, and a speed potion, vanish when my overkill buff drops off. I stack up to 12 stacks, and cloak. that's usually seconds before the first BC. I run back in and get to attack for roughly 10 seconds before the air phase. When she comes back down I pop my hyperspeeds again, stack up to 12, cloak, stack up to 4 or 5 before the BC, and run out. There's about 25 seconds left, so just go all out until the air phase, no big deal.
This works well every attempt for phase 1 and phase 2. Doing it this way I can keep myself up around 8-9k dps without ever chancing dying, and I've never had my healers complain. Phase 3 is when it becomes a problem, as getting more than even 4 stacks likely means you're going to die. Really the only way to do phase 3 safely is to go for 5-8 seconds, stack up to 2 or at most 3, and run back behind a block. What we've found in our attempts is that phase 3 is all about slow and steady, don't risk distracting healers from the tanks and themselves, and just whittle her down. We got her below 1 million life on 3 different attempts before our kill, and every time we had over a minute left on enrage, simply had tanks die or a boss turning issue breathing on our healers.
While I know people can check other's armory, it would probably help if everyone said what spec they use if they are going to describe their personal strategies for Sindragosa. Mutilate will gains stacks much quicker than combat, as will someone who is using Hyperspeed Accelerators. If I understand Permeating Chill correctly, the the faster you get stacks the safer it is to let Permeating Chill stack higher, since you won't be getting many ticks of Permeating Chill at any given stack (say maybe 1 tick at 10stacks).
As combat spec, I gain stacks at a rate of 1 every 3-5 seconds. This means I cannot let my stacks get up to 12 as I'd be taking several ticks of Permeating Chill at 9, 10, 11, and finally 12 stacks. Maybe other healers could, but our healers most certainly cannot heal through a progression of 9000, 9000, 10000, 11000, and 11000 damage ticks occurring every 2 seconds, at least not while keeping other DPS and tanks alive. Thus, while you may be able to get high stacks a mutilate or using other means to increase attack speed, I don't believe the same is universally true for rogues on this fight.
The point of my explanation was more to say that if you cloak every time she does her pull, you can really DPS without stopping until either she pulls or until you get to 12 stacks. The mechanics of the sindragosa fight works well with our cloak CD as you can cloak right before the first pull, and it comes back up right before the next one, every time. Phase 1 and 2 are very easy for rogues because of our cloak cooldown, and the only part of the fight that is actually difficult for us is p3 if you know how to manage the first 2 phases.
I'll have to do more testing next week, but we specifically had our 3 rogues cloaking it off (if it got onto them) if a melee got it right before the transition and accidentally got it into the raid. May have been that it just happened that there was nobody else in range each time this occurred. I retract my statement until next Tuesday.
02/08/10, 6:04 AM
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