My 10 man is starting hard modes this cycle and Putricide is on the list of hard modes we'll be working for the cycle. Can Unbound Plague be Cloaked off or maybe Vanish immune if the first person choosen?

We were having some trouble with the slow organisation, i hope you know how the priority system of snare effects works.

For Example:
On a Valkyr that is slowed by crippling poison, no one can apply a weaker snare effect. Of course Snare effekts don´t stack.
So here comes my question:
The daze effect by Blade Twisting apperently don´t count as a snare effect and you can apply other snare effects to the targets, that are alredy dazed by Blade Twisting. Does Blade Twisting slows a Valkyr to their minimum of 50% respectively works it as intended ? :-)

That last sentence made my brain hurt. I understand up to the point where you said that Blade Twisting and other snares are able to stack. Are you saying that (a) Blade Twisting *alone* slows the Valkyr to 50%, (b) Blade Twisting plus some other snare slows the Valkyr to 50%, or (c) Blade Twisting plus some other snare slows the Valkyr *more than* 50%?

The reason blade twisting can be applied to a target with a more powerful snare is that it is considered a "daze" effect, which has secondary implications for certain abilities (e.g. Heroic Strike, Steady Shot). A few other snares with secondary effects will behave the same way, such as frostfire bolt, frostbolt with permafrost, and infected wounds. As you noted, the effects still don't stack and only the most powerful snare actually affects the target's movement speed.

I haven't ever tried to rely on blade twisting as the only snare on the valks--and I never would because of its unreliable nature--but I don't see why it wouldn't slow them the full 50% like you'd expect. Surprisingly, wowhead claims that it's a 70% snare, though I've never tested this.

More to the point, this means that there is no specific advantage to Crippling Poison on this fight. Other snares can be applied at a far lower DPS cost in many cases, and leaves us free to focus on the primary utility that we bring to the Val'kyr - stuns.

Sorry I wrote so confusing. Of course I wanted to ask, if Blade Twisting alone can slow a Valykr to 50%. That is interesting, because Crippling Poison block and delete weeker slows. Blade Twisting don´t do that. When you use Crippling Poison on the first valkyr and the second take you for a ride, the first will be without a slow after 12 seconds, because no one can apply an other (weeker) slow until Crippling is gone. This can cause problems, but it don´t have to.

So I was just wondering, if Blade Twisting works just fine as well. We work with Frost Traps and an AOE Stun after the spawn, so Blade twisting is reliable for me.

It's a 10% chance. How could it possibly be considered reliable?

You can not cloak Unbound Plague off.


For one, there's several Valk phases that coincide very closely with Defile. Meaning, as a rogue, you need to preemptively run out of melee range of the Valks as soon as they swoop. Due to this, it can be unreliable to depend on a rogue to provide any type of slowing effect consistently. Stuns are a different story, but make sure you aren't DRing anyone else assigned to stunning.

Summary to Date. Heroic are not included. Updated for fixes, thanks peoples.

Entrance Hall.

TRASH before Marrowgar:
-Marking traps with flares if you want the rep, otherwise still not a bad idea until you disarm the trap.
-Traps Respawn after 1hr
-Two traps spawn in either of the rooms.
-Total of 4 possible traps. Traps will trigger the nearest sentinel, one you clear the left or right side of a room, a trap will not respawn in that section (as that Ward has been activated).
-Triggering a trap spawns the next trap.
-Disarming a trap does not spawn a new trap.
-Deathbound Wards can be dismantled. (use before KS so you don’t et cleaved).
-NPC’s can trigger the traps.

TRASH before Deathwhisper:
-CoS works on the Nerubian's annoying spell of doom, moving the timer to zero. Distance yourself from the group before hitting CoS.

MARROWGAR:
-Has a huge hitbox. No reason for melee to EVER get hit by flames, as they spawn outside his hitbox.
-Feint and Evasion both work on BONESTORM!!

DEATHWHISPER:
-Adds are blindable.
-CoS makes it so you do not get MC'd.

GUNSHIP:
-Rocket packs are ~2000 dmg AOE separate GCD. Also has a slowing effect.

SAURFANG: (sour patch kid)
-If Marked, Feint can help healers.
-Adds can be crippled, still a bad idea unless all your kiters plain suck, at which point it probably still won't help.
-If add pulling is a problem, energy pool to Env + Tricks, FoK works as posions are not reduced by AOE reduction. Still not optimal use of DPS.
-MS effect useful (still? there was a bit of debate earlier). OH shiv swap WP?


Plagueworks:

TRASH:
Stinky & Precious:
-Decimate cannot be COS
TRAPS:
-I have found that I have problems seeing these traps, they tend to either spawn on top of me, or trigger before I see them somehow.
-1 trap will spawn in either hall, second will spawn if first is triggered.

FESTERGUT:
-Feint is your bestest friend. Trivializes Pungent Blight, especially if you somehow missed an innoculated.:\
-Purgent Blight can be vanish immuned.

ROTFACE:
-CoS drops slime from you.
-Feint: Will help reduce slime damage if you have to drop a small in front of the big, especially if the stacks are bulding up. Feint Rotty, sprint over to OT, Cloak drop slime, and back to dps.
-Feint helps against the Ooze Explosion.

PUTRICIDE.
-Vanish drops GREEN slime target. Since everyone stacks on slimes, this is probably a BAD idea as it will pick a new target (probably closer), unless coordinated. If you time it right before the slime hits you, you can also buy your raid about 3or4 seconds on the explosion as it picks a new target.
-Feint Helps vs Green explosion, so healers can get you up faster.
-CoS and vanish drops BROWN slime targeting, since rogues have sprint, you may want to hold onto aggro until it gets close, and warn the raid to spread out when you do drop it..
-TearGas can be vanished out of during the cast (Not Vanish Immune) for extra DPS on any living oozes, or putricde himself. Invisibility works as well for mages. KillingSpree does not work. test Shadowmeld.
-CoS removes 50% miss debuff from flasks, and the Attack Speed debuff from Malleable Goo.
-MS effect is useful phase 3. OH with wound for shiv swap may be a decent idea if there is no other effect. Heals when debuff drops off, so coordinate with tanks as to when they lose their stacks.
-Pushing him into TearGas resets Unstable Experiment timer. If you can push him into phase between slimes, you gain more DPS time on Putricide.


Crimson Hall

BLOOD PRINCES:
-Keleseth, tricks you ranged tank to have him love you long time.
-Valanar, cannot CoS emp. Shock Vortex (but CAN vanish immune)
-Valanar, Feint works on emp. Shock Vortex. Some have recommended staying on boss and just feint. Personally, my MT would kill me for even suggesting this.
-Valanar (uncomfirmed), tanking at the back of the room allows melee to LoS emp Shock Vortex.

BLOOD QUEEN:
-Swarming Shadows can be cloaked (and no fires will be dropped). This is the best use for CoS in this fight.
-It is possible to Vanish Immune first bite by accident. Be careful.
-Fear (in flight phase) can be dropped with a well timed Killing Spree or Vanish. Can be useful to aid in spreading out.
-If possible, tricks should always go to bitten targets. They do the most damage and have no threat gain. If multiple rogues are tricking the same target; make sure you have a rotation.
-Feint reduces the raid damage… surprise. I should just put a big neon sign at the top that says “FEINT WORKS”.
-CoS can prevent damage to you during flight phase from blood bolts. You will still be hurtin other players though, so this remains a non-optimal use, unless you must bite/get bitten/are about to die.

Frostwing Hall

VALYTHRIA
-Feint. It works.

SINDRAGOSA
-Feint. Works. (but not on Permeating Chill)
-Much like Put's Tear Gas, Blistering Cold can be evaded by using vanish during any point of the cast. You do not need to be stealthed at the end of the cast, so long as you drop from the list of available targets at some point during the cast.
-Frost Resistance helps immensely.
-Cloak drops Permeating Chill. CoS does NOT prevent Blistering Cold.
-Combat gets stacks of Chilled to the Bone slower than Mutilate. As mutilate it is easy to pull upwards of 15 or more CttB stacks in one ground phase.
-Speccing into Blood Spatter may help if you opt for low stack rotations (no frost res gear)
-You can vanish immune ice-tombs. This will probably get you gKicked in phase 3 (unnecessary in phase2 unless hard modes).
-CloS does not remove Mystic Buffet
-Typical recommended (fast and dirty) is to go to about 7 stacks, cloak and reset and you should end at about 5-6 stacks for air phase. ( I assume this is for combat as mine go higher). FR, Health, and healers all impact how many stacks to take. In 3 piece polar, I can take up to 14-16 stacks. I am now peeling back my FR so increase DPS. I also currently Feint and stay in for Blistering Cold. (I take about 8-10k damage, if I miss immuning).
I save a CoS for bloodlust+haste pot as that builds massive stacks; so if we start getting close to phase, I hold off on CoS and pull back to reset stacks.
-You can LoS the grip in phase 3 with the iceblock, but NOT the BlisteringCold (if iceblock is close)

Current Recommendations on stacking CttB: This information is highly individual, and I honestly hesitated to put it on here. Depending on gear/healers, you may be able to take more, or less. If you are new to the fight, aiming for these numbers may be a good starting point, and then adapt.
Mut:
No FR gear: 8 stacks, CoS, 6 stacks again. If you pick up stacks especially fast, you may be able to go to 8-10 before CoS. Just remember that that isn't an amount that you want to put healers into healing, so its more along the lines of, "2 seconds after I hit 8 stacks, whatever my stacks happen to be at now, I CoS."
FR gear: up 14 stacks, CoS+Feint when pulled in stay in for explosion, then up to 6-8 before air phase.
Combat:
No FR: 6-8, CoS, 5-6
FR: You probably won't get high enough.


Lich King (splitting this guy up between adds for easier reading)

LICH KING
-CoS drops necrotic plague as if it were dispelled. It will jump, it will give LK a buff. Saves healers a GCD.
-do NOT vanish-immune defile. It will simply be recast. DO use sprint/rocket boots to get away from people. (mages get to blink, lucky pricks).
-FEINT WORKS. (On Vile Spirits)
-Frostmourne: apparently stuns do not work on the mob channeling, but kick does.

VAL’KYR
-Cheap Shot is on a separate DR than other stuns. Keep this in mind. (it CAN be overwritten by other stuns though, so save a vanish-CS until AFTER valk is immune).
-Charge is on separate DR as well (?shared with CS?) tell your wanna-be-rogue buddies.

Other classes:
-If dropped off the side, the following work:
-warrior: Charge/Intervene
-warlock: Demonic Portal (lucky bastards)
-Hunter: Disengage (have to be fast on facing)


To test:

-Putricide. Can you shadowmeld during teargas to not be hit?
There is a report of "yes" and a report of "no" after this post. Can we get a secnd verification?
-Valanar (uncomfirmed), tanking at the back of the room allows melee to LoS emp Shock Vortex
-LK: Val’kyr: Does a DK’s Chains overrite all other slow and still wear off over time? If so, probably best to tell them to stop.

EDIT: in bold (sindragosa blistering cold)

Has since the change worked for my second rogue in PvP and I managed to do it last night too on Putricide 10.

Edit: another (arguably trivial) point, I've been vanish-immuning stuff since TBC but I've not managed to do it on Decimate on the dog pets. Is it actually somehow impossible or am I doing it wrong every time?

No. Like on most other encounters, Shadowmeld don't helps.