Java App Modelling Rogue DPS (Updated for 3.3.3) - Page 2

Lightshadow · 01/05/10, 12:07 PM

Neat tool. I was curious about the EP values I was getting back though, so I tried plugging my gear into this v0.7, Aldriana's sheet, and Manavas' sheet as a test. Everywhere I could I tried to keep settings exactly the same, though I'm not entirely sure what the 3rd glyph you're using here is. (I also swapped my belt for vengeful noose since I'll be picking that up today and mine wasn't supported here, and yes I let Manavas' sheet run overnight).

 
        Here  Aldriana  Manavas  
Agi     2.05    2.00      2.08
Crit    1.88    1.83      1.84
Haste   1.84    1.94      2.03
Hit     1.83    1.99      2.05
Exp     1.83    2.29      2.43
ArP     2.21    2.03      2.12

Given the circumstances, I'd expect a fair bit of variation in the results, and some things seem to match up pretty nicely. Without knowing anything about the methodology behind this it's hard to say whether the low values for haste and hit are expected or not, but the value of expertise is rather shockingly low and armor pen seems a bit high.

Keep up the good work.

Chack · 01/05/10, 1:25 PM

Hmm that seems to suggest that my armor formula is off. Are you using ARP proc trinkets? Or in the other spradsheets you are getting alot more damage from white mele and poison.

private float calcArmorMod(float arp) {
		float armorC = (467.5F * 83 - 22167.5F);
		int armorDefault = 10643;
		float armor = (armorDefault * 0.8F * 0.95F);
		float armorRemovable = Math.min(((armorC+armorDefault)/3F),armor);
		armor = armor - (armorRemovable * Math.min(arp/1400, 1));
		float dr = armor / (armor + (467.5F * 80 - 22167.5F));
		return (1-dr);
}

About the huge expertise difference, did you spec full weapon expertise in the other spreadsheets?

PS: Combat is using SS, KS and ToTT Glyphs.

robfang · 01/05/10, 1:32 PM

For the muti spec, the biggest difference I have observed with respect to the other sheets is the value of 4 set bonus. Maybe it is because I am experimenting with the BiS items but removing 4 set bonus causes a huge dps loss (270 dps) when using 51/13/7 spec.

Edit: To be exact, after meddling with the other items, I could reduce the dps loss to 224 dps when using 2 set bonus instead of 4.

Neckface · 01/05/10, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by Drakulina

Well, good luck with your application.
But I think it would be much easier for you to fix rogue module in Rawr.
Rawr is an open source project - so you can download it's source code and make it work correct. By the way the latest version of Rawr working rather well, it's dps for my rogue is only 700dps lower than in simulator, but there are some strange things, like using bloodlust\heroism doesn't affect my damage at all о_О
Rawr developers are looking for people who want and can help

It's written on C# it's very close to Java, you will easily understand it.
There are lots of features in Rawr that are already implemented and working so you will save yourself a lots of time.

I tried to edit rogue module in Rawr, and well it's not hard, but the problem is that i don't actually know ALL formulas
for calculating rogue dps... and it takes too much time to find right formula.

I'm pretty happy to have another option for the Mac, actually.

Good work.

Has anybody made comparisons to Aldriana's spreadsheet(s) to see how close the numbers (overall dps, not just EP values) are?

Chack · 01/05/10, 3:36 PM

4 Set Bonus is getting a high score because I haven't properly modelled envenom clipping. Basically my model runs with "perfect" pooling so you can get up to 90% uptime on envenom in 4pT10. I could go the other extreme and cut off envenoms as soon as the energy cost for that cycle is regenerated, which is basically zero pooling. That way you get very little additional envenom uptime from 4pT10.

• Aldriana · 01/05/10, 4:54 PM

Originally Posted by Chack

private float calcArmorMod(float arp) {
		float armorC = (467.5F * 83 - 22167.5F);
		int armorDefault = 10643;
		float armor = (armorDefault * 0.8F * 0.95F);
		float armorRemovable = Math.min(((armorC+armorDefault)/3F),armor);
		armor = armor - (armorRemovable * Math.min(arp/1400, 1));
		float dr = armor / (armor + (467.5F * 80 - 22167.5F));
		return (1-dr);
}

1) armorC should be 467.5 * 80 - 22167.5, not 467.5 * 83 - 22167.5. I realize GC said otherwise. Testing indicates that he was wrong.

2) If you want the exact conversion for things like ArPen rating to ArPen, you can find them in this thread. For instance, ArPen should be divided by 1399.572719 rather than 1400. Not that it will make a huge difference, but I don't see that there's any real reason not to be exact about these things.

Hippofanti · 01/06/10, 10:19 AM

[Planestalker Band] Heroic version doesn't work or is it just me..?

KaAm · 01/06/10, 12:40 PM

No in mine too, this ring is missing... but thanks for your work

Chack · 01/06/10, 12:48 PM

I added a new version with the ring, buffed Heartpierce, Envenom clipping and the altered damage reduction formula.

Jaron · 01/06/10, 2:36 PM

Engineering enchants are missing. Can you please add the cloak and boot enchant? Thanks much.

Elfred · 01/07/10, 12:56 AM

First off great work, this is much easier to work with on the fly!

Seal of Many Mouths is missing its yellow gem socket from the non-heroic version.

Cygany · 01/07/10, 3:26 AM

Gangrenous Leggings actually has 3 gem sockets instead of 2, Yellow, Red, Blue. Socket bonus is +8 Agi. Wowhead is incorrect, Wowarmory shows the correct gem sockets, but no bonus. Stats were modified too. Equip Attack Power is now 200, Crit rating is 108, and hit rating is 84. Agi & Stam are still the same.

Chack · 01/07/10, 10:40 AM

I added a new build with
- Fixed Gangrenous Leggings
- Fixed Plague-Soaked Leather Leggings
- Fixed Seal of Many Mouths (does anyone know socket bonus?)
- Added HP buff tick losses to fast refeshes

I wonder how many more items will be different live.

Elfred · 01/07/10, 1:10 PM

Apologies, Ring of Many Mouths has a +4 Agility socket bonus.

Hulkur · 01/07/10, 1:36 PM

Seems pretty cool, but what's the RS and LR for mutilate specs ? Lighting Reflexes vs Relentless Strikes ?

Also one of the first things I noticed was that if you choose engineering you get engi hyperspeed gloves, but no flexweave cloak enchant ( it's 23 agi, while major agility gives 22 ). Not a major change but still a change.

EDIT: OOPS, sorry I did not notice it was already mentioned earlier.

Guradia · 01/08/10, 6:41 AM

Things i would like to fiddle around with, after obtaining those sources ^^:
- implementing the latest nerfs (just to get familiar with your code)
- remove the radiobutton (those are just a bit awkward) and make the whole item clickable
- adding the "standard" Tooltip
- importing items by itemID through Armory/Wowhead
- keeping gems through item changes, where appropriate
- preserving last gems chosen for specific items
- adding inputs to test things like "what's the benefit of 200 haste" without having to gem those in or find appropriate gear
- provide inputs for theorycrafting-calculation-details
- adding Black Magic (and perhaps lesser enchants)
- ...
*cough* ... exaggerated long term plans :3

Chack · 01/08/10, 9:21 AM

I added the project to google code

idps - Project Hosting on Google Code

Please be aware that it was never intended for anyone but myself to see the source code, so do not except alot of inline comments :P. There is also a new release on google code with the latest nerfs.

Ottosen · 01/08/10, 10:29 AM

Hey,

I have some feedback, that perhaps you can clarify. I'm wondering why nobody else reported this back, so I might just be silly.

However, there are some quite big differences in my in-game stats and those that your application show. My hit rating matches, my haste rating matches, my expertise rating is 20 too high in your application and the crit rating is 8 too high in your application. The crit percent is 54,49% in your application, whereas in game it's only 41%. I've double checked all my gear..2 times, so that's 4 checks. Also looked every gem and enchant after, to see if it matched up, and it does. What causes the diversities? Is your application including raid buffs when it comes to crit, as to check the cap in a raiding situation?

The difference in expertise makes no sense to me at the moment.

Guradia · 01/08/10, 11:11 AM

Thanks for the sources. I hope to have something useful to contribute soon.
Und ich habe das Gefühl, wir können uns auch dieser Art unterhalten ^^.

Cane · 01/08/10, 11:14 AM

Ai nochn paar deutsche.

Anyone know why the Application doesnt work after i opended it once a time?
It just came the download-window(firefox) but nothing happen.

Naja bei mir öffnet zwar das downloadfenster von Firefox, aber mehr kommt auch nicht.
Beim ersten mal hats noch funktioniert. Jemand ne Ahnung woran das liegt?

Chack · 01/08/10, 11:15 AM

To clarify:

The fields under gear stats show your unbuffed stats like in the character sheet. They match my rogue to the last value in both my mutilate and combat gear. Make sure you do not have some gem and/or enchant wrong/missing. Tho some of the new ICC items have possibly wrong stats because they were changed since the PTR, but weren't fixed on MMO yet (where i pull my data from).

The other fields with the percentages show the fully raidbuffed stats, including debuffs on the boss that will not show up in your character sheet ever.

Guradia · 01/08/10, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Cane

Anyone know why the Application doesnt work after i opended it once a time?
It just came the download-window(firefox) but nothing happen.

Did Firefox proposed to open with Java that first time? Then there might be problem with passing a second download of the same file to the JRE ... possible Solution: RightClick, Save As ... and open manually from FF's download history or through your favorite Filemanager
Since i'm forced to save the file i can't test this.

Silverspoon · 01/08/10, 11:29 AM

Thanks for the great tool. It's really convenient to use, so thanks again for all the effort you put into it, striving to make it better.

Problem solved thanks to Guardia. Neglecting the right-click is my fault.

Delete this.

Guradia · 01/08/10, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Silverspoon

but I'm not sure I properly understand this. Selecting and deselecting Leatherworking from the menu does not change any stats and does not show an extra slot for bracer enchant or something similar (like it does, when Blacksmithing is selected).

Question: Do you magicaly get an extra enchant slot for leatherworking ingame, or are there even "slots" for enchants? ^^
Nope, you activate Leatherworking or engineering ... than rightclick on bracers/gloves and *tadaaa* there is your enchant and it's gone again, if you deactive the corresponding profession.

Mortezzah · 01/10/10, 2:28 AM

Great app, thanks!

I don't understand something though -- when I clicked on my ranged Widebarrel Flintlock it shows that Shrapnel Star is a downgrade of 10.59 DPS. That surprised me, because Aldriana's showed it as a 16.8 upgrade, and Mavanas's (after 300 iterations) showed it as a 34 DPS upgrade.

However, when I then selected it in iDPS to see if it actually was a downgrade, my DPS went up by 17 in iDPS. Perhaps it doesn't model in the gem value for the Flintlock when it is estimating the item or something?