Actually, there is some items with a blue socket and a +8 agility socket bonus. Depending on the value of agility, the socket can be very close to the 20 EP value by itself.
Coupled with an Enchanted Tear, you get 14 agi and 6 strength, which can be equal or even slightly superior (depending on the agi value) to the 20 EP mark.
I've never seen Agility anywhere near 2.5 EP, and certainly not since we all lost 4p T8. The break-even point for Agility EP would be 8x + 6x + 6.6 = 40, or x ~= 2.386. I suppose that's possible, but my personal Agi EP is still far short of that at 2.007. Agi is generally better for Mut, but then you're introducing more crit, something which is already problematic in a lot of high-end Mut setups.
In general, I don't think it's really worth adding a gem that can only be useful in the extremely limited case where you have an 8 Agi socket bonus (that isn't already filled with a Nightmare Tear), and an Agi EP close to 2.4.
An enchanted tear is then 19.2 EP. The Socket bonus would have to be 20.8 EP. 8 AGI or 16 AP, the two strongest socket bonuses, are both a mere 16 EP. Stronger than an enchanted tear is any dreadstone, clocking in at basically 20 AP. The socket bonus would still have to be 20.
Unless socket bonuses increase, or the value of agility skyrockets (it won't), you only want one blue gem. And even if you were to want 2, it wouldn't be an enchanted tear.
Note: Even if you want to use a stat like Expertise, which could have a higher value than 2, the estimation still holds true because you're only getting half as much from a dreadstone as you would from an equivalent red/yellow gem. The socket bonus has to be worth half your strongest red/yellow gem by itself to warrant considering a dreadstone, and none of them do.
Note: Even if you want to use a stat like Expertise, which could have a higher value than 2, the estimation still holds true because you're only getting half as much from a dreadstone as you would from an equivalent red/yellow gem. The socket bonus has to be worth half your strongest red/yellow gem by itself to warrant considering a dreadstone, and none of them do.
Unless all you required to reach the cap is 10 EXP or less. At least with a purple gem, you can get a few AP/AGI/ArP back instead of going 10 or more over the cap.
Unless all you required to reach the cap is 10 EXP or less. At least with a purple gem, you can get a few AP/AGI/ArP back instead of going 10 or more over the cap.
In which case you should use 10exp/10hit gem.
There's really no reason to use a Purple gem as a rogue.
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The only reason you would ever use two blue gems is if you had more then one +10 stats socketbonus triggered by a blue gem. Or if they somehow make Spirit or Mp5 a dps stat for rogues. And even if the socket bonus was 20 ap or 10 agi, you would need very high EP values for those stats.
Briefly stated: so far as I know, there has only been one item, ever, with a large enough socket bonus to justify the blue gem it would take to get. And you need two such items in order to optimally use a purple gem, as if you only have one, you just put your Nightmare Tear there. Hence, there is no known circumstance wherein you want to use two blue gems in your gear.
The other circumstance where purple gems might be useful is the odd circumstance wherein a purple gem exceeds the value of a Nightmare Tear - that is, if you were (say) stacking ArPen and got your ArPen EP value over 3.1 (or so), you could get into a circumstances where an ArPen/Sta gem was better than a Nightmare Tear. In practice, this doesn't seem to happen either, for two reasons:
1) ArPen EP tends to still be sub-3 when you hit the ArPen hardcap, and
2) Even were that not the case, you'd swap out all your Yellow gems for ArPen before trading out the Tear, meaning you'd need to keep the Tear to fulfill the yellow portion of your Metagem activation anyway.
Hence, so far as I know, there is no known circumstances under which you use any blue gem other than a Nightmare Tear. Which is not to say that some wierd thing might not turn up at some point, but for the moment it feels safe to omit them from consideration.
My java app was working fine last night, now it's not importing my character and giving me really weird suggestions and numbers, like double equipping items (not just heroic/non-heroic, its telling me to equip two heroic DW),also telling me my dps is 50 fully equipped. Any thoughts on what is happening and why?
Using the latest build (iDPSv0.10-r46): Whenever I create a new profile and start selecting gear and enchants, the DPS output does not work properly outputting some very low random DPS numbers. Looks like it's not importing stats from the gear equipped. However, if I import a character from the armory and start changing gear it works fine.
this is actually the known display issue, where the fields in the middle get not enough space to display fully. Your DPS is possibly 70XX. The quick fix is usually to select a different gear config and then change back, so the display components layout themself again. It will be fixed in the next release.
I really like this tool. As Aldriana said it would be a great progression to the current spreadsheets that are used by many. It is very user friendly.
One thing I am puzzled though is the "suggested dps gain" on items and gems as well as the EP values.
At expertise cap it still values expertise at 2.39 and arp at 2.25. Is it meant to set the value to 0 after reaching hard caps or would it be continuous display?
It seems to me that the dps gain suggestions on items are based upon the EP values so I would assume that some funky suggestions are occurring due to that simple fact.
One thing I would like to see is the addition of sockets directly to the selection screen (on the item).
Otherwise, great job. I <3 java but personally I'm too busy to play with it and spreadsheets, this makes everything rather quick.
No, items arent evaluated by EP weigts. The app basically equips the item, finds the best gem setup for that item, and then runs a dps calc. The numbers you see are dps increases when upgrading to that item.
Also expertise will hit 0 when you are over the cap, if it's not 0 you aren't capped yet. But you are probably less then 10 epertise away from the cap so it's not worth using a gem on it.
Also for those who haven't noticed, i released a major new version with some changes:
- Talents, Race and Professions are now saved with the gear setup. You will have to reselect them.
- Changed Combat specs to 4 points Improved Poisons
- Loot Filter Added
- Fixed Display Issue
- Improved Gem selection
- WoW-Style extended ToolTips
- added Rigid Dragon's Eye
First off, let me say thank you for making such a clean implementation of a java based calculator. The exact upgrade paths, as opposed to EP valuation, are a welcome treat and make fiddling with gear sets significantly easier/quicker. I really think that this application shows a lot of promise for the future.
That being said, looking at my current sets that I use for both combat and mutilate, I have to wonder what type of modeling differences exist between your program and those utilized in Aldriana's spreadsheet. From what I've seen in general, combat tends to be modeled showing a higher result in your program as opposed to Ald's work, and mut's results are lower than in Ald's sheets. For example, Aldriana's modeling has my mutilate set pulling almost 400 dps higher than my combat set; alternatively, your app has the same combat set ~75 dps above the same mut set. While I appreciate differences in modeling, this represents a ~4-5% swing that definitely gives me pause. Is there anything that would make sense of the relatively drastic swing for combat that I'm seeing from the program?
I realize 4-5% is not huge in itself, but it feels significant given that we are making min/max decisions on individual upgrades that average less than 1% a piece AND, more importantly, that there is such a discrepancy between the results of each spec. The real sticking point is simply the fact that the difference between this app and Aldriana's work for both specs aren't uniformly higher or lower. I really, really want to use this app b/c of how much simpler and cleaner it is, but at the moment I feel that I still have to use the spreadsheet because the results just don't match up and I've trusted the math behind them for quite some time.
(Oh, and just in case it was wondered, I do not have any racial bonuses that would be at issue- undead, sigh. Although racials are another feature that I have to say is a great addition!)
The code is available and people are welcome find errors in the model.
There is not much point in comparing final DPS results in this app and the spreadsheets and saying 'i get 5% more dps here/there'. Different models will give you different dps results, and if they are only 5% apart then they are actually quite close. It's not like people are going to compare setup A that did 9000 dps in the spreadsheet with setup B that did 9100 dps in the app, and then come to the conclusion that setup B must be better. Worrying problems would be an item that is a huge upgrade in the app, but a downgrade in the spreadsheets (or vice versa).
If you want exactly the same dps results as Aldriana's spreadsheet, then you will have to use his spreadsheet. I am not going to to compare each formula in spreadsheet/app and look for differences (I doubt it is even possible for most of them, as there might be completely different approaches). Making iDPS give 100% the same results as Aldriana's spreadsheets is not on my ToDo-List, and will most likely never be.
Nice work, between the Combat spreadsheet and this tool the difference is only about 180 dps for me (10621 vs 10437) that is a very close modeling I would say!
EDIT: Is it possible to have a bit more transparency? I would like to see what poisons the modeling is using, what buffs etc are being accounted for and what the talent spec's are specifically.
With the latest build, since my gloves come out as a giant "?," I can't left click and select another pair to look at numbers with. Right click still does enchant selection, but leftclick does nothing.
Sorry, would maybe help if you tell me which gloves, and also a link to your armory page. Otherwise I can't do anything.
@kddn
Not really sure what you mean with "latest discoveries". I use 4.8% crit depression for white and specials, 3% crit depression for spells and also the 4.8% enforced hit on white mele that cannot be overcome by crit. So your crit cap is 100-glance-dodge-miss-4.8 = 71.2-dodge-miss (actual) or 76-dodge-miss (before depression). If the crit cap looks low to you, then it's because the app shows your actual crit when hitting the boss, not the one you have when you look in your character info.
Current understanding of crit cap is that it is equal to 100-glance-dodge-miss+4.8 for melee attacks. There is no longer any evidence of forced 4.8% hit, and old evidence is believed to be a recount reporting deficiency (partial blocks reported as hits).
So to sum up, there is no crit'-to-hit conversion, but there is still a 4.8% crit depression. Class mechanics has a thread that you can follow directly for most recent findings on crit depression.
Sorry, would maybe help if you tell me which gloves, and also a link to your armory page. Otherwise I can't do anything.
I think he wanted to report a bug, in prev. versions you was able to leftclick an item with "?" and select new one from your database, but in latest version if you leftclick on this item nothing pops in the right row, so you can't select any item to replace.
This bug and a couple of others a fixed in the new version. Significant was especially the bug that overvalued ARP on mid-high arp levels. I also changed the LK loot according to MMO Champion.
This tool is a wonderful addition to the myriad of things we have for maximizing setups, and I'd like to add my thanks for your time and skill in creating it.
That said, it appears that it's not adding the blacksmithing socket on some items in the latest build (r64). So far, I've seen it not appear on the following:
Wrists
• Heroic Toskk's Maximized Wristguards
• Heroic Vambraces of the Frost Wyrm Queen
• Armbands of Dark Determination (heroic or normal)
• Bracers of Swift Death
• Fluxing Energy Coils
• Solar Bindings
Gloves
• iLvl 277 Sanctified Shadowblade Gloves
• Heroic Aldriana's Gloves of Secrecy
• all levels of T9 Gloves
• Heroic Scourge Stranglers
• Both versions of Sunreavers Assassin Gloves
Just throwing this minor one in for you. Hope it helps!
EDIT: it seems to be happening inconsistently. I'll see if I can find some pattern to it.
02/01/10, 11:23 AM
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