Cataclysm Rogue Changes - Page 10

sarkastro · 05/06/10, 2:03 PM

I'd venture to guess that we won't see most of the passive damage boosting talents removed until Masteries are implemented. Damage would feel neutered otherwise.

Rambaral · 05/06/10, 2:16 PM

Something fairly vague and open to speculation, but a list of UI strings was listed for some of the UI changes in regards to new features like the Druid and Warlock bars. One was referring to "Poison Power". Might this suggest our poisons will build up in a target over time, making them do more damage, or conversely do less damage as our poisons fall off? Maybe an easier way to show exactly what poisons are ticking and when they fall off, possibly to provide an alternative to some mods.

If this falls into too broad a speculation then please remove it, I just saw this and it peaked my curiosity. For all I know it has absolutely nothing to do with us and could be part of some encounter.

Here is the link:
Cataclysm: Initial User Interface strings

Wodahs · 05/06/10, 2:40 PM

Originally Posted by Rambaral

Something fairly vague and open to speculation, but a list of UI strings was listed for some of the UI changes in regards to new features like the Druid and Warlock bars. One was referring to "Poison Power". Might this suggest our poisons will build up in a target over time, making them do more damage, or conversely do less damage as our poisons fall off? Maybe an easier way to show exactly what poisons are ticking and when they fall off, possibly to provide an alternative to some mods.

If this falls into too broad a speculation then please remove it, I just saw this and it peaked my curiosity. For all I know it has absolutely nothing to do with us and could be part of some encounter.

Here is the link:
Cataclysm: Initial User Interface strings

I believe it refers to mastery bonuses, one being poison damage.

• Andeh · 05/06/10, 4:42 PM

Wouldn't Restless Blades make Relentless Strikes more valuable, since the extra energy would essentially increase the rate at which you perform finishing moves? Also, it will go up in value to Combat if they're changing it's focus to more heavy hitting yellow attacks and finishers, since those all are energy limited.

gurglblAt · 05/06/10, 6:46 PM

Originally Posted by Valustria

Nobody has mentioned yet that Combat can now get Fleet Footed. That's the biggest reason I smiled while looking over it.

Conversely, Blade Fury is within reach in a Mutilate build, while being able to put 4 points into Relentless Strikes.
Mut/Cleave Sounds Tasty, but hopefully there will be something new to work with in the Assassination tree. As it stands now, I'm taking the exact same talents as I'm using now. *Yawn*

• Aldriana · 05/06/10, 7:05 PM

Just to get ahead of the issue: please note that these are only the first few changes. It is highly likely that the other trees will soon receive remodels on the order of what combat received already. Never mind the fact that influences like masteries are totally unknown as yet. Hence, while it is useful to assess talents in terms of figuring out whether they're at a reasonable balance point or not, worrying about how our overall builds will change (or not) seems severely counterproductive at this point in time. Yes, our ideal builds wouldn't change very much with what we've seen so far. But that's not even remotely surprising given that we've seen, like, 20% of the total changes - if that - so far. So: be patient. Assess what's there, but keep in mind what's still missing.

gurglblAt · 05/06/10, 7:14 PM

Agreed. Seeing as how cool a talent for Combat Restless Blades seems to be, I expect something equally cool coming for Assassination.

• Andeh · 05/06/10, 7:20 PM

Found an interesting spell with 4 ranks: Intuition. Perhaps a Subtlety talent that is not yet implemented? Although it doesn't list ranks like typical talent/ability.

Bloobeard · 05/06/10, 7:56 PM

For those interested, here is the current version of Recuperate. 40% hp regen over 30 seconds. Seems like a powerful addition for leveling, pvp, and raids.

eyesolated · 05/07/10, 7:14 AM

Originally Posted by Bloobeard

For those interested, here is the current version of Recuperate. 40% hp regen over 30 seconds. Seems like a powerful addition for leveling, pvp, and raids.

30% untalented, 50% fully talented (Improved Recuperate - notice that EVERY % is currently too high by 1 on every spell/talent). With the additional change to higher base armor for leather items AND the 50% extra armor talent (Reinforced Leather, including the Damage Reduction Component of Recuperate (Sturdy Recuperation) reducing all damage taken by 4% while Recuperate is active, it seems like a deep combat build will be the way to go if we're ever to try soloing instances in any way, shape or form.

And seeing as Recuperate is directly affected by total health and not base health, it might even make sense to build a stamina-equipment if you're serious about trying content by yourself like DKs do nowadays. IF Quick Recovery somehow ties into Recuperate's mechanic and stays where it is, such a build could be pretty nice for soloing instances after overgearing them by quite a margin. Maybe we will be able to go toe to toe with bosses some tiers lower than the current one.

*edit* to put this a little to perspective, 50% may sound like a lot, but 5% every 3 seconds does not. Anticipating DPS-Health at around 50k, that'd be 2500/3 secs. Currently, even Gift of the Naaru heals for more, although being on a 3 min CD makes it one-use-only.

*edit2* i did some calculations based on what we know. Leaving Quick Recovery out of the Equation, to be able to survive a 2-minute-fight, you are allowed to eat 7,8125% of your total health as damage. At 25k (pretty much LK health in T10), that would equate to ~651 incoming DPS, which isn't really all that much. Of course, we have some other Survivability Talents like Cloak and Evasion to further increase our survivability, but with the current calculations, we're far from becoming the new DKs

Istaril · 05/07/10, 9:06 AM

Keep in mind Combat Readiness, which will make a reasonable difference.

Also felt I should link our other two new abilities; Redirect and Smoke Bomb

ShadowEric · 05/08/10, 1:58 AM

Originally Posted by Istaril

Also felt I should link our other two new abilities; Redirect and Smoke Bomb

That new tooltip for Smoke Bomb is mildly insteresting. It states "Creates a cloud of thick smoke in a 10 yard radius around the Rogue for 10 sec. Enemies are unable to target into or out of the smoke cloud." I bolded the part I find interesting. That's not something that was mentioned before: previously, there were no restrictions mentioned for being inside the cloud (though that makes sense thinking about it). So instead of shielding ourselves, we can throw it on a mob and force it to move (or use AoE). That could open up a few interesting possibilities, particularly on bosses with adds, but of course, it remains to be seen if it can be used on boss fights.

Belegûr · 05/08/10, 4:53 AM

It will quite certainly be "usable". However, whenever blizzard feels this negates a mechanic they don't want avoided, they'll just give the mob some "infrared vision" buff that will allow it to go on as if we hadn't used it.

Typically, I'm thinking of situations like the val'kyr doomguard on P2 Arthas: they realized that a deadly-brew specced rogue could offer a unique and very powerful buff - i.e. a 70% slow via crip - so they gave the val'kyr "wings of the damned" that specifically prevented us from slowing them beyond 50%. This is exactly what I expect to see happen on boss fights where smoke bomb would make things too easy - and thus make picking a rogue feel mandatory, which they want to avoid.

Mosq · 05/08/10, 7:14 AM

For those interested, on alpha ArP is converted 1:1 into Crit or Haste on items. Items that have ArP and Crit right now will have that ArP converted into Haste (Frostbitten Fur Boots) and vice versa (Aldriana's Gloves of Secrecy). Items with copious amounts of ArP and neither Crit or Haste had their ArP converted into Crit (Deathbringers Will).

KraxisSingular · 05/08/10, 8:02 AM

Originally Posted by ShadowEric

That new tooltip for Smoke Bomb is mildly insteresting. It states "Creates a cloud of thick smoke in a 10 yard radius around the Rogue for 10 sec. Enemies are unable to target into or out of the smoke cloud." I bolded the part I find interesting. That's not something that was mentioned before: previously, there were no restrictions mentioned for being inside the cloud (though that makes sense thinking about it). So instead of shielding ourselves, we can throw it on a mob and force it to move (or use AoE). That could open up a few interesting possibilities, particularly on bosses with adds, but of course, it remains to be seen if it can be used on boss fights.

Take note that the description mentions placing the Smoke Bomb around the Rogue. You might not even be able to place it (active Smoke Bomb and it just happens around you, like a selfbuff), which would naturally limit it's use a bit more to reactionary events, unless you feel rather adventerous. It would still be useable for LOS pulling of course, but a lot less freely.