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Old 11/04/10, 2:05 PM   #316
Rouncer
Deeper Shade of Blue
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by bondy View Post
Edit - Brain farted - Gemming is going to be a pain with 54 crit and 3% increase (didn't it use to be more blue than yellow?) For now I'm going with Fleet Shadowspirit Diamond (+54 Mastery Rating and Minor Run Speed Increase) which requires 2x yellow.

However my deleted point should still stand. Currently the socket bonus on t11 are very good and net off most losses from using orange and purple gems making reforging for hit a little easier.
Why would you even consider Fleet Shadowspirit? We get 15% from ancestral swiftness and that doesn't stack with anything so basically you are comparing 54 mastery vs 21 agility and 3% additional damage on crits vs 54 crit and 3% additional damage on crits. Guess which one of those is the worst option? Hint, it's not the 21 agi one.

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Old 11/05/10, 2:08 AM   #317
Gondlem
Von Kaiser
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Sargeras
I think the meta requirement will be managable with reforging. Even though gemming hit over the spell hit cap won't be desirable, we can always reforge out of hit on gear once we're at higher gear levels and keep gemming it to activate the meta. It'll take some simming to work out the exact ratios but I imagine it will work out.

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Old 11/05/10, 12:22 PM   #318
Maelise
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Doomhammer
Originally Posted by Cochice View Post
Okay I thought it seemed way off. Was wondering if the 20->40 change was speed and not damage. Thanks for clarification, will update.
Blue post today shows that Unleash Windfury was further buffed from 40 to 125%.

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Old 11/05/10, 1:22 PM   #319
Rouncer
Deeper Shade of Blue
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Maelise View Post
Blue post today shows that Unleash Windfury was further buffed from 40 to 125%.
MMO was wrong about the 40% applying to the direct damage, it was a buff to the passive effect doubling it's strength. The direct damage was 50% of weapon damage up to that point (the tooltip was just bugged) and with that build it had gone up to 125%. That latest bit is more about just finally getting the tooltip corrected.

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Old 11/08/10, 12:02 AM   #320
Merkaba8
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Stormreaver
While a buff to the Unleashed Wind portion of Unleashed Elements was totally necessary, this buff seems to essentially amount to a slightly harder hitting half of a 15sec CD ability and nothing more. With a 15 second CD, and a limit on the haste portion to 6 swings maximum, in a PvE situation, a buff to the haste % doesn't seem to matter (the charges would have been used fully anyways). In PvP, it could be helpful for some burst where the connection to the target is short lived.

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Old 11/08/10, 1:15 AM   #321
• Jessamy
Struck by Diax's Rake
 
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Troll Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Merkaba8 View Post
With a 15 second CD, and a limit on the haste portion to 6 swings maximum, in a PvE situation, a buff to the haste % doesn't seem to matter (the charges would have been used fully anyways).
This isn't how haste works. It doesn't make each hit do more damage, in that case you'd be right, as long as all charges are used it doesn't matter how fast they get used. Rather, haste makes your hits faster.

Some fake numbers to show how this works. Assume including both MH & OH, a hit every 1.0s. In a 6s window, you get 6 hits. With a 20% haste buff that lasts 6 charges, you get 7 hits in that same time, and with a 40% buff almost 8.
Hits with no UW haste at:
1.00 2.00 3.00 4.00 5.00 6.00
Hits with 20% UW haste at:
0.83 1.67 2.50 3.33 4.17 5.00 6.00
Hits with 40% UW haste at:
0.71 1.43 2.14 2.86 3.57 4.29 5.29 6.29
(You can't scale this example to whatever your swing timer happens to be, this just shows that more haste is better even if it is tied to charges instead of duration.)


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Old 11/08/10, 11:54 AM   #322
Lyska
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Frostwolf
Originally Posted by Jessamy View Post
This isn't how haste works. It doesn't make each hit do more damage, in that case you'd be right, as long as all charges are used it doesn't matter how fast they get used. Rather, haste makes your hits faster.

Some fake numbers to show how this works. Assume including both MH & OH, a hit every 1.0s. In a 6s window, you get 6 hits. With a 20% haste buff that lasts 6 charges, you get 7 hits in that same time, and with a 40% buff almost 8.
Hits with no UW haste at:
1.00 2.00 3.00 4.00 5.00 6.00
Hits with 20% UW haste at:
0.83 1.67 2.50 3.33 4.17 5.00 6.00
Hits with 40% UW haste at:
0.71 1.43 2.14 2.86 3.57 4.29 5.29 6.29
(You can't scale this example to whatever your swing timer happens to be, this just shows that more haste is better even if it is tied to charges instead of duration.)
Another way of saying this is that the faster you get those six swings in, the faster you get back to your normal swing timer which can net you an extra swing or two in the span of the fifteen second cooldown. As long as the duration of the buff in time exceeds the amount of time of six hasted melee swings, buffing the haste bonus of the Unleash Elements affect is going to be a DPS increase. When you consider how hard we're hitting (World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis), an extra hit or two every 15 seconds is pretty huge when it crits.

Edit: After perusing Premonitions logs I'm a bit unsure about something. The raid's DPS was roughly double what it was in earlier days. Is this a fight mechanic for which there is no listed buff or debuff or is it because of new gear (they all have new names > epic premades).

Last edited by Lyska : 11/08/10 at 12:03 PM.

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Old 11/08/10, 1:41 PM   #323
Morninglory
Von Kaiser
 
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Worgen Warlock
 
Icecrown
Originally Posted by Lyska View Post
Edit: After perusing Premonitions logs I'm a bit unsure about something. The raid's DPS was roughly double what it was in earlier days. Is this a fight mechanic for which there is no listed buff or debuff or is it because of new gear (they all have new names > epic premades).
Appears to be the Halfus-Heroic encounter which was recently hotfixed. The dmg here was done with a 250% damage debuff on Halfus himself.

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Old 11/10/10, 8:05 PM   #324
Hothgor
Piston Honda
 
Orc Shaman
 
Stormreaver
Unreported so far, but the tooltip for Stormstrike now reads "Instantly strike an enemy with both weapons, dealing 137% weapon damage and granting you an additional 25% chance to critically strike that enemy with your Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Lightning Shield and Earth Shock spells for 15 sec."

That is it was changed from 125% damage, 181% with Focused Strikes to 137% and 193% with Focused Strikes. It should read 199% in game, so this is either a bugged tooltip or a bug in their bonus damage calculations.

Edit: Beta Realm tooltips are reflecting real time changes to glyphs and set bonuses.

Last edited by Hothgor : 11/10/10 at 11:43 PM.

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Old 11/10/10, 8:46 PM   #325
Rouncer
Deeper Shade of Blue
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Hothgor View Post
Unreported so far, but the tooltip for Stormstrike now reads "Instantly strike an enemy with both weapons, dealing 137% weapon damage and granting you an additional 25% chance to critically strike that enemy with your Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Lightning Shield and Earth Shock spells for 15 sec."

That is it was changed from 125% damage, 181% with Focused Strikes to 137% and 193% with Focused Strikes. It should read 199% in game, so this is either a bugged tooltip or a bug in their bonus damage calculations.
Live servers or Beta?

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Old 11/10/10, 11:28 PM   #326
Hothgor
Piston Honda
 
Orc Shaman
 
Stormreaver
Just to clarify, the scaling issue was simply real time tooltip changes based on glyphs, talents and set bonuses.

After pounding away on the test dummies for a while, Caster/Melee combos are clearly starting to come in ahead of Melee/Melee combination's with enough mastery rating. Fortunately, Ghostcrawler posted a small update about the issue:

We'll make sure Enhancement doesn't want to use caster weapons. That's not the sort of thing we are likely to just sit back and let happen.

Last edited by Hothgor : 11/10/10 at 11:46 PM.

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Old 11/14/10, 9:07 AM   #327
SentinelBorg
Don Flamenco
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Blackrock (EU)
Well, I can't add to the discussion, because it is happening in the US boards again, instead of the Beta boards.
But I see all your solutions except one simple one: How about switching Lava Lash to the main-hand? It already feels wrong that our strongest strike comes from our off-hand and as you can't equip caster weapons in your off-hand, it would solve that problem once and for all.

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Old 11/14/10, 12:29 PM   #328
Rouncer
Deeper Shade of Blue
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by SentinelBorg View Post
Well, I can't add to the discussion, because it is happening in the US boards again, instead of the Beta boards.
But I see all your solutions except one simple one: How about switching Lava Lash to the main-hand? It already feels wrong that our strongest strike comes from our off-hand and as you can't equip caster weapons in your off-hand, it would solve that problem once and for all.
What about flametongue if lava lash was a mainhand attack? Simplest is really to just to make physical damage matter more, how they accomplish that though is the reason for all the debate.

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Old 11/15/10, 1:32 AM   #329
titansol20
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Shaman
 
Duskwood
While I do agree that something should be done, putting our strongest attack on the main hand weapon alone with flametounge would only encourage the community to switch back to using 2her's which Blizzard has stated many times they don't want us doing that. I feel a shortening in 1 or 2 C/Ds with their damage would be more in line with what needs to be done with the gaps and dps.

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Old 11/15/10, 4:32 AM   #330
SentinelBorg
Don Flamenco
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Blackrock (EU)
There is a easy and simple solution to the 2h problem, remove our abilitiy to wear them! It is a more or less useless relic of old times. Currently no sane Shaman uses a 2h melee weapon. The only use of the skill is to show off your Sulfuras in the cities.

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