If I change the points of Call of Flame to Reverberation and, change the Glyph of Windfury Weapon to Glyph of Flame Shock? With this, I can use Unleash Elements, followed by a Flame Shock, and then, use 2 Earth Shocks (instead of 1) before the next Unleash Elements, followed by a Flame Shock.
I would like you to opine about this. In single target.
PS.: Sry for the bad English, I'm starting with this!
Hey, Im not a big stats guy and kind of rely on EJ to figure out my rotation for me (Thanks) so i dont understand the why behind most stats. I tried that Enhsim and inputed the rotation it suggested here and got around 100 dps more by putting ss as second on the priority list and was just curious as to why this would be the case?
@Ticksmas I tried all of these suggestions with my gear setup and normal rotation. I found that I received ~600 dps loss on EnhSim (sim time 1000hrs). #1, I don't see the purpose in glyphing the for flame shock when UE CD is 15 seconds, and Flame shock last ~17 seconds. Second, with higher ilvl gear, you're more likely to be GCD semi-locked and won't have the time to put in that extra ES. Third, the Call of Flame talents adds a significant amount to our dps, including the applied DoT, so I don't see reverberation ever being more viable than it.
@Dextroer I experienced a 100 dps loss by putting SS after LL in my priorities. To help resolve the issue, could you post your EnhSim config and output files? You will see how to do this by looking in previous posts.
@Dextroer I experienced a 100 dps loss by putting SS after LL in my priorities. To help resolve the issue, could you post your EnhSim config and output files? You will see how to do this by looking in previous posts.
Im not very good with enh sim and have probably done something wrong
Im not very good with enh sim and have probably done something wrong
There's several things wrong with your config.txt file. I'm betting you must have copied from somewhere else, because it has stats in there from before Cata. Let's begin with the issues:
- Simulation time is set to 1000, which is probably abit too low to get stable results. You might want to bump it back to the default of 5000 to get more accurate results.
- You have the reaction time set to 0 min and 0 max, which is pretty much a pointless exercise, especially if you are trying to compare rotations. You're not Mr T, so just set it back to the default of ~250 msec.
- Your EP values are obvious from before Cata, so don't use them if you want to calculate any EP numbers
- The boss armor value is from before Cata, which is going to give you strange results.
Those are the relatively minor ones, but the big problem you have is that you switched off all buffs/debuffs. I'm not sure what you are trying to compare, but Lava Lash gets boosted up much more from our buffs than Stormstrike. Since the difference between the two runs is less than 0.5%, even with all the weirdness in your config it's still a push between them.
My suggestion is to open up EnhSim and reload the default config.txt file. Then just enter your stats directly. That should give you a more accurate simulation of your rotation.
I was able to replicate Deztroer's results running him (correctly) through enhsim v2.4. Moving SS before LL results in approximately a 20dps increase raid buffed over the BiS priority. I get the same results with my own gear setup as well, about a 20dps increase. SS in any position other than before LL or after UE is a somewhat large dps loss.
Edit: Using the BiS config file and moving SS before LL results in the same ~20dps increase over the BiS priority.
I just tried it with the BIS gear setup but against the latest alpha version, 2.4.4. I'm seeing a much smaller difference from 26008 to 26020 by moving SS directly above. From looking at the breakout, it looks like the slight decrease in PPM from the various damage sources is made up by the large increase in SS PPM along with a smaller increase in Windfury, Flametongue and Lightning Shield PPM. The interesting thing is that the Lightning bolt PPM went down, which indicated that any extra Maelstrom procs just can't get consumed fast enough with the cooldown contention. This is born out by the large drop in Maelstrom efficiency from 84% to 77%, even though the PPM of Maelstron did go up slightly.
The interesting thing is if you swap the order of SS and LL and put SS directly below LL, there is a drop of ~ 100 dps. From doing a quick look at the output, my guess is that the PPM rate drop of the other damage sources just isn't offset enough by the PPM increase of Stormstrike, Windfury, Flametongue and Lightning Shield. I'm guessing what might be happening here is possibly a GCD issue between SS and LL. The reason I'm saying that is the uptime of Flame Shock goes down from slightly from 92.47% to 91.78% when you so the swap. That's indicating that switching the SS above LL is giving access to another GCD so Flame shock can be cast before the dot falls off.
I dont want to let your dreams burst like a bubble, but with a look at the hero version of the item, which got mastery, it is more possible that this axe never will come live with expertise. Moreover would be the 131 spirit wasted itemstats. As a result you would pick a other casterweapon with better itemisation.
But nevertheless, a axe with spellpower is very interesting! As far as I know, no other class can use axe as a spellweapon.
I am fairly certain holy pallies could use it. That being said, it is a slow swing and high damage for a spellpower weapon. I would not doubt that it should be mastery and that they will nerf its DPS into the ground.... here's to hoping I'm wrong!!!
Concerning Call of Flame on PTR, currently it's adding 6 seconds of each Fire Nova hit regardless of how many times you use. That means that once you have 2/3 Flame Shocks up, you won't be recasting again on the same target ever. 15min FS up and rolling~
Now we only need something that could last long enough...
I'm not sure if you'd want to do this, and it might be more useful for Ele, but if the "legs" are close enough on Lord Ryloth you might be able to keep Flame Shock rolling on both with selective Fire Nova use and simply Earth Shock away.
Playing around on dummies tonight, it was pretty easy to keep multiple FS dots rolling indefinitely while maintaining a full priority.
The t12 bonus does not affect Searing Flames or Bolts, only non-totem fire damage. The tooltip on the set says the increase is 16% while the debuff claims 6%. Should be an easy test.
A bit off topic but important nonetheless: The "Ask The Devs #10 - Damage Dealing (Questions)" forum is up and going. The forum is full for new posts but the current ones can be voted on for review.
Please search the enhance shaman topics that are valid and reasonable and vote for them. This poses a good opportunity for some changes. The topics include: Scaling, stat weighting, itemization, excessive hit requirements and more.
Back to the topic. Ok it is nice you can have 4 targets up with FS had a hard time with the 5th target. Trying to multitask didn't work out. It keeps going past 15 min I got mine up to 17-18 mins. I got bored and left the dummy targets. I can see the benefit for AOE fights. Maloriak HM is a good example where this is going to be great. Haven't test the new bosses in Firelands where AOE might be paramount.
My concern is more towards the technical side you might say. If we Fire Nova then Flame shock gets refreshed for 6 secs we keep doing this and it seems FS will at least get one tick off if you are doing a regular rotation with out FS. But I remember being talks on this forum about clipping FS that was bad, that sometimes you had to do it, etc.
So, lets say we are purely AOEing so we FS and FN every time the c/d is up then most likely FS wont tick. If we are trying a normal rotation if seems FS will tick at least once if you are hitting FN when everything else is on c/d.
So with the T12 bonus will be using FN as part of our regular rotation. Sorry maybe just rambling ideas due a bit of frustration towards the class changes that just create confusion or inaccurate play that have hunt us for quite some time. Seems like it is WoTLK all over again where depending the armor set bonus we have to change our rotation to get every bit of DPS we can but yet still not be at a decent point. I guess maybe that is why Ehn is the dying bread of Shamans and so many reroll to different other classes.
You can no longer clip dots. By refreshing a dot, the time remaining increases, but there will be no increased time before the next tick.
Secondly, why would you start using FN in your rotation with T12 set bonuses? The bonuses are:
Your Lava Lash gains an additional 5% damage increase per application of Searing Flames on the target.
Your Stormstrike ability also increases Fire damage you deal to that target by 6% (apparently the tooltip says 16% on the PTR).
This doesn't mean that FN still won't do any damage to the primary target rendering FN use during single target fights useless. We could only hope that our set bonuses changed our rotation, this would make things more interesting. The only change in our rotation, with the new bonuses, I can forsee is that we'll be using SS before LL when starting a fight or staying away from the boss for an extended period, to get the samage increase to LL.
* Unleash Wind now deals 175% weapon damage, up from 125%.
* Stormstrike now deals 225% weapon damage, up from 125%.
I'm glad to see they are 'buffing' us but this still seems pretty weak. First, I'm pretty sure SS already does 193% damage (not 125%) so it will receive only a modest increase if it is going to be 225%. Storm Strike's damage (both hands),for me, is always around 4-5%, so this ~15% buff will yield about 0.7% more damage. Unleash Wind damage has always been weak, about 1.5% of my damage, so this 40% buff will yield about 0.6% more damage. So as I see it, we get 1.3% more damage with these changes.
Last edited by Brazos : 06/17/11 at 12:06 AM.
Reason: fixed SS current damage from 195% to 193%
In current gear, this 80% buff to SS will add about 3.6% to our total damage and with the Unleash Wind change, we will see a total of about a 4% increase from current damage.
Taking T12 set bonuses into account and these changes, it appears that crit will become a bit more valuable than it is now. We now have 3 abilities that get 200% scaling from crit doing more damage than before, LL, SS and Unleash Wind. I speculate that it still won't be enough scaling to keep up with other classes though.
Our LL % increase from 2pT11 to 4pT12 would be: (1.25 * 1.06 - 1.1) / 1.1 = 0.2045 or 20.45%
Assuming LL does 15% of our total damage in 2pT11, we will see 4pT12 LL damage at 18% or a 3% increase. Taking the 2pT11 value of a 4% increase in damage from the new 4.2 changes results in a very rough estimate of 7% more damage coming from sources that receive 200% crit bonus in 4pT12.
Of course, as flurry and elemental devastation uptimes approach 100%, we naturally see diminishing returns from dps gained per point of crit through these talents. So ya, all in all, probably not the amount of secondary stat scaling increases we would like to see in order to keep us competitive.
On a side note, the fact that they are increasing the damage from abilities that scale from weapon damage will continue to help keep us from using caster weapons as our primary choice for single target dps.
Ello, I had an idea. As far as know, the only reason we use Flame Shock over Earth Shock is for the DoT that ends up causing Flame Shock to yield higher damage. Though with the recent change to Fire Nova via Call of Flame, would it be a good idea to put Fire Nova into a single target rotation in order to keep the DoT running, whilst using only Earth Shock? Sorry if I'm misinterpreting what the change does, I'm just seeing what you guys think.
Ello, I had an idea. As far as know, the only reason we use Flame Shock over Earth Shock is for the DoT that ends up causing Flame Shock to yield higher damage. Though with the recent change to Fire Nova via Call of Flame, would it be a good idea to put Fire Nova into a single target rotation in order to keep the DoT running, whilst using only Earth Shock? Sorry if I'm misinterpreting what the change does, I'm just seeing what you guys think.
Flame Shock ticks only increase in duration from the PTR Call of Flame on targets DAMAGED by Fire Novas. IE only usable in multi-mob/multi-boss encounters since Fire Nova never damages the same target with Flame Shock.
Ello, I had an idea. As far as know, the only reason we use Flame Shock over Earth Shock is for the DoT that ends up causing Flame Shock to yield higher damage. Though with the recent change to Fire Nova via Call of Flame, would it be a good idea to put Fire Nova into a single target rotation in order to keep the DoT running, whilst using only Earth Shock? Sorry if I'm misinterpreting what the change does, I'm just seeing what you guys think.
05/20/11, 4:04 PM
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