This is the collection of SimCraft set bonus data that we've been accumulating. As you can see, a few quick runs of SimCraft gave us a rough estimate of 1200 dps for the T13 2pc (note that this was all using the T12H gear set, just changing the bonuses), which means it's more of a 3-4% dps increase.
Updated for 4.3. Includes changes to AoE and set bonus updates. Expanded on a few sections. Numbers for spell coefficients will be out of date until I have a chance to go through and update all of them.
Two questions that I have not yet seen answered, or even discussed. Will our stat priority change? As of current, haste is marginally better than mastery, still better, but marginally. Most shamans that I have seen reforge most things to haste. With the new T13 4pc and giving us an almost constant 750 haste, will mastery become a new favored stat, or at least better than it is now?
And would it be worth it to spec Totemic Focus to ensure 100% up-time of our fire elemental with the FET glyph? Albeit the AI of the fire elemental is more than lacking, if he didn't die, or stand around looking stupid, he would have 100% up time.
Bink's spreadsheet suggests that FE glyph is worth it until you drop 2PC T12, so long as you are actually able to get two full durations out of the totem. Totemic Focus is more complicated, and there is some discussion still going on over at TotemSpot on this subject. At the moment it looks like it is roughly equal with or without it, considering the loss of Improved Shields. I personally don't think I will be using it since it could negatively impact a few other things like our AoE rotation, which uses Fulminations frequently as CL stacks the shield very quickly.
Haste remains worth slightly more than Mastery for most of T13, especially just after the haste DoT tick at ~2700ish haste, which most people should be at or near. For a real answer on stat priorities you need to sim your own gear.
Hello there,
I would like to ask about the Haste vs. Mastery scaling. Everywhere I read, that Haste is more valuable than Mastery once you reach 2778 Haste (because of another flame shock tick). For example Bink said that on Totemspot.com
Advanced notes: Remember that haste is roughly equal to mastery under 2778 haste rating, but will be ~20% more valuable after that point.
I had this discussion with my friend other day, and he keeps saying that this math is wrong, that Mastery is much more valuable than Haste (especially when you reach 1,5sec on LB), and I don't know what to think. I also asked on the Totemspot after Binks update on Elemental Shamans for 4.3, but he replied with link to his wiki, where is some post about "Haste vs. Mastery", but it only says "Haste is better because it is" and I wonder whats behind it. If there is some graf showing it or what.
Also I wonder about that 2778 haste rating moment. That after this point Haste becomes more valuable. Why? Because Flame Shock gives one extra tick? Isn't it like 4,000 extra dmg done per GCD? I don't see it that usefull.
Hello there,
I would like to ask about the Haste vs. Mastery scaling. Everywhere I read, that Haste is more valuable than Mastery once you reach 2778 Haste (because of another flame shock tick). For example Bink said that on Totemspot.com
I had this discussion with my friend other day, and he keeps saying that this math is wrong, that Mastery is much more valuable than Haste (especially when you reach 1,5sec on LB), and I don't know what to think. I also asked on the Totemspot after Binks update on Elemental Shamans for 4.3, but he replied with link to his wiki, where is some post about "Haste vs. Mastery", but it only says "Haste is better because it is" and I wonder whats behind it. If there is some graf showing it or what.
Also I wonder about that 2778 haste rating moment. That after this point Haste becomes more valuable. Why? Because Flame Shock gives one extra tick? Isn't it like 4,000 extra dmg done per GCD? I don't see it that usefull.
The short answer, if you don't want to accept the fact that every Elemental theorycrafter says so, is that SimCraft values it higher in most cases.
The long answer is that the longer duration for Flame Shock allows for more direct damage spells to be cast between each Flame Shock cast (while FS is the highest damage per cast spell, it's dps over the entire spell duration is the lowest), resulting in more damage done overall. This is why we have haste value jumps around the FS break points.
The usual behaviour for dots for other classes is that they are focused on the extra dot tick, and additional haste over that point does not contribute as much damage after those haste points. For Elemental, Haste is very valuable, although it scales slower than Mastery does (side note: if it weren't for the FS break points then yes, Mastery would be worth more than Haste) so the relative value of each changes depending on your set up.
It's likely that Mastery will be more valuable than Haste once you get T13 4pc AND have Dragonwrath, mostly due to the fact that the DTR proc can duplicate overloads.
The TL;DR version of the long answer is: run simcraft with your current gear, and include scales/plots for haste & mastery.
I think the source of a lot of current Mastery > Haste arguments are coming from runs of simcraft with gear profiles just under DoT haste breakpoints. In that particular case Mastery may be worth more for you.
I can't keep saying this enough though: stat weights as a rule for our spec are an outmoded concept. We give people weights based on BiS or general priorities across a tier because they always ask for them, but in a system with stats that are near each other's values that scale with one another, there is never going to be a single answer that fits for every player with the current range of progression and gear. If you don't want to believe us because someone else told you different or your sims don't agree with our general priorities that we repeatedly say will change based on your gear, then keep simming your own stats and make your own choices.
Hey, I'm using DrDamage to look at my individual spell DPS with full buffs. It appears that chain lightning is better dps on a single target than lightning bolt. Just about everything that applies to lightning bolt also applies to chain lightning. The only limiting factor appears to be mana (and you can just swap back to lightning bolt for a while to let it regen). Is there anything I'm missing here or should I be spamming chain lightning on a single target now until I run low on mana (making sure I have mana for burn phases)?
Rolling Thunder and Elemental Overload have a lower chance to proc per target for Chain Lightning than for Lightning Bolt. If you have adds to bounce to and gain more proc chances from, then yes CL does more damage to your main target than LB does.
Having a hard time finding information on trinkets, I've checked this site, simulationcraft, etc, but I can't find a decent ranking for the available trinkets, can someone point me in the right direction?
All just educated guesses, will be interesting to see some numbers when they eventually crop up. Apologies for some of the links, wowhead links to new items are still a little messed up.
You can use SimulationCraft to generate a ranked list of caster trinkets for any class similar to the warlock ranking available at simulationcraft.org. Here's how I generated this list:
I opened the caster_trinkets_PTR.simc file in the profiles folder with Notepad, selected all, and copied to clipboard.
I browsed to the import tab in SimulationCraft, selected BiS, and then shaman elemental T13H.
At the end of the T13 elemental profile, I pasted the clipboard contents from the trinket file.
In the options tab, I cranked iterations all the way down to 1000 just to get faster results, and de-selected all of the check boxes in the scaling and plots tabs. I'll run it again with more iterations for a more accurate ranking.
You can use a similar technique to generate a ranked list for your own character. Just import your character from armory instead of importing the BiS list from the SimC install.
edit: As promised, an updated ranking with 10000 iterations. I switched from "helter skelter" to "patchwerk." I also added 6 missing trinkets including the 3 LFR drops, and removed the heroic version of Bottled Wishes.
edit2: By request, uploaded the modified trinket list I used.
I received a Will of Unbinding a few days back, and after some testing on the dummies I determined that, for some reason, when you cast Fire Nova it automatically gives you 10 stacks, even if the Fire Nova doesn't hit anything. I quickly simmed this out with SimC and it seemed like a small DPS gain to do so anytime your stacks fell off.
However, after trying it out in Dragon Soul the next day I was not able to replicate this behavior. I went back to the dummies after the raid was over and it still causes 10 stacks.
Aggixx, I've been able to determine that yes, I indeed get 10 stacks with a Fire Nova cast at places other then just the Training Dummies.
However, I experienced something unusual while testing it out... Rathrak, The Poisonous mind works off of "harmful" spell casts as well and is an AoE around the target that it procced on, on my journey to figure out the reason for Fire Nova working the way it does I noticed Rathrak Poisoning monsters up to 100 yards away from the mob that I casted Fire Nova on, meaning that Fire Nova is hitting things within that range with its "harmful" effect but not actually dealing damage just enough to proc the trinket and Rathrak.
Careful to those of you that have the weapon and the Trinket that do this, you could end up pulling something very unfriendly.
11/27/11, 3:33 PM
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