Based on my current gear I am soon to weaning myself off of the short CD fire elemental and DMC:V, but for now, which glyph should I be replacing for the elemental glyph until I drop my 2 set bonus for it? FS, Lvbt or UE/LB? Can't find any solid information on which glyphs are stronger/weaker than the others.
1. Anyone noticed unusefull Ancestral Swiftness talent in DS? Anyone else want dropped it? I think talents for dmg reduction/healing taken should work better increasing our surv and healers mana. I didn't read/see any hc fights, my progression: 8/8 normal, 10-man
Morchok, warlord, hagara, warmaster - I just stand/move properly and assume the rest of the team doing the same
spine, madness and ultraxion - completly unusefull in my opinion
yor'sahj - I drop one or maybe two casts on ooze, but still using UL glyph should give more dps and work better than just transform into wolf
At all fights i assume using UL glyph or moveable cd's like unleash elements or spiriwalker.
All normal mode bosses is easy, so mostly i want to hear some opinions including hc fights too.
2. For madness fight i think mastery should be better choice than haste, but i would be happy to hear opinion of others.
Anyone noticed unusefull Ancestral Swiftness talent in DS?
The ancestral swiftness talent gives us a passive 15% movement speed which is always useful in end game raiding, as for actual ghost wolf casts there is probably few opportunities with the exception of racing between platforms on madness of DW. It basically boils down to spending 2 points to gain an extra 7% movement speed and upgrade the 35 mastery lavawalker to a meatier enchant.
Is there anyway to use simcraft or similar to work out "ideal" aoe rotations based on situation? I mean, is EQ>9Fulm>CL always the most dps, or is 4 or less targets making EQ not worth it, 6+ targets making fulm not worth it etc etc? My assumption based on raw numbers with my current gear is: 5+ adds: EQ>CL. 3/4 Fulm>CL. Am I far off the money with this?
Jessamy,
thanks alot for your informative post about how to sim trinkets.
I did exactly what you said and did it for my own toon, and it yielded similar results to what you got. However, i couldnt find the data for many lfr versions of the trinkets nor (most importantly for me) the foul gift of the demon lord trinket. How did you get the data for these trinkets? So i can sim it for myself too
One last thing is, so you can do this for technique of simming specific trinkets to find the biggest upgrade....can you do the same for other peices of gear? Specifically weapons? Is there a folder of text i can copy and paste all viable weapons for my shaman?
Hey guys.
Up to this point i have always been reforging for maximum haste. But as i recently obtained my 4set bonus i was wondering if mastery just became the better stat?
Would like to hear some answers and opinions on this!
You'll need to sim your own gear to answer for yourself. The stats have always been very close and multiple factors can push it one direction or the other: having DTR, having the 4pc, having the (large) haste proc trinket, how well you stack cooldowns, whether or not you are frequently getting PI in your raids, and how close to the simcraft default model you actually play (if you are actually optimally casting Lava Burst at every opportunity that favors mastery, nearly all players will miss some of these opportunities vs. SimCraft making it weight it slightly higher than actual play.)
I've been discussing the circumstances/dps increases when refreshing flameshock during haste procs on totemspot and wanted to repost it here for discussion.
The original question was: Is reapplying flameshock with EM + 2 set bonus worth it. Excluding set bonus, it makes sense to clip up to 50% of the current FS to apply a new one with 2x the original haste (EM, BL, Insignia) since its double damage + lava surge procs. Now I have also read that reapplying FS immediately once EM is up, and then again right before the end for 2 full duration hastey FSs is a good dps increase as well, but a lot of it is not backed up by math and I don't have a solid way of testing this > especially vs. 2 piece set bonus LBs instead of the refresh.
I'm inclined to believe the following (assuming 2 piece setbonus):
Under EM: Clipping less than 50% FS> Lavaburst> Fulm> FS if current is not affected by haste proc> LB. But delaying a possible fulm/FS to ensure FS can be reapplied right before EM wears off. The same would be true under BL and Insignia procs as the amount of haste gained roughly doubles or better our FS damage.
Just assumptions based on my gear and numbers, but if there isn't any obvious flaws in my reasoning it should be true.
I've been discussing the circumstances/dps increases when refreshing flameshock during haste procs on totemspot and wanted to repost it here for discussion.
The original question was: Is reapplying flameshock with EM + 2 set bonus worth it. Excluding set bonus, it makes sense to clip up to 50% of the current FS to apply a new one with 2x the original haste (EM, BL, Insignia) since its double damage + lava surge procs. Now I have also read that reapplying FS immediately once EM is up, and then again right before the end for 2 full duration hastey FSs is a good dps increase as well, but a lot of it is not backed up by math and I don't have a solid way of testing this > especially vs. 2 piece set bonus LBs instead of the refresh.
I'm inclined to believe the following (assuming 2 piece setbonus):
Under EM: Clipping less than 50% FS> Lavaburst> Fulm> FS if current is not affected by haste proc> LB. But delaying a possible fulm/FS to ensure FS can be reapplied right before EM wears off. The same would be true under BL and Insignia procs as the amount of haste gained roughly doubles or better our FS damage.
Just assumptions based on my gear and numbers, but if there isn't any obvious flaws in my reasoning it should be true.
You can test this with Simcraft if you're familiar with the action priority list syntax, if not you may want to check the documentation on their site.
The biggest flaw, by far, with your idea is that you will never have double haste barring Sinestra-like buffs. If you have 30% haste buffed that means that your cast times are the inverse of 130% of the base cast time. Casting a buff like bloodlust would increase your haste to 69%, but that is NOT double the haste of 30%. In order to have "double the haste" you would need to have a 100% haste buff so that your cast times are the inverse of 260% of the base cast time.
PS: Clipping a maximum of 1 tick while under Elemental Mastery or Blood Lust came out to a 16 DPS gain in my gear. It's honestly not even worth thinking about (clipping 2 while under both was a DPS loss).
The biggest flaw, by far, with your idea is that you will never have double haste barring Sinestra-like buffs.
Was quite poorly worded I apologise, but BL, EM + 4 set could push us quite close to a fresh FS having 65% more haste than the last. Is it possible for you to test reapplying the dot while BL AND EM are up? It feels like 50% more lavasurge procs at a time we have 2k more mastery and 50% haste should weight better than it does. There also could be some merit to reapplying FS at the beginning of multiple haste buffs during specific phases in encounters (BL during hagara stun) for example.
This could also prove to be a stronger opener on fights too, delaying the first flameshock for elemental mastery/insignia/power torrent procs as it will not be clipping an existing flameshock. The math there is simply whether or not wasting a global during EM is worth it, and wether delaying lavabursts+FS to spam LB until procs is too much of a dps loss.
Other than that though you're point seems to have disproven the theory more than enough.
I tried to work out a personal trinket listing following the method laid out by Jessamy upthread ([Elemental] Cataclysm Discussion - Patch 4.3) because I was intrigued by his/her listing showing NF(H) higher than DMC:V, but I'm getting weird results.
Following his/her method, I generated a listing of trinkets and it showed the same result, that NF(H) beat out DMC:V for me in my current gearset by 600 dps. However, if I run simulations subbing DMC:V and NF(H) in and out for each other I'm finding that DMC:V provides almost 1500 dps more than NF(H) in my gearset. (DMC:V generates about 37500, while NF(H) generates about 36000)
The only thing I can think of that is causing this the trinket ranking was testing each trinket in isolation 1 by 1, but when I try swapping out NF(H) and DMC:V I was keeping a VPLC in there and apparently VPLC has so much synergy with DMC:V over NF(H) that it skews the results in DMC:V's favor.
I've attached screenshots from SimC and a copy of the profile I used to run SimC.
I was running some sims yesterday to check dps differences between lightning bolt and lavaburst glyphs and I had some rather strange and consistent results. With 50k iterations and simmed 3 times apiece, lavaburst came out on top by around 70 dps, no surprise there.
However, the dps from lightning bolt overloads was consistently LOWER with the LB glyph instead of the lavaburst glyph. The numbers even out between the 4 parses at almost exactly 3475 overload dps with the LAVABURST glyph, and 3470 with the LIGHTNING BOLT glyph. The overload dps for lavaburst was also within 1 point of dps between glyph configurations. The overload counts are also equal at 90.3 LB and 25.7 LvB overloads apiece on all 6 sims.
Is there possibly an inaccuracy with how simcraft plots overloads, and can anyone run some sims to confirm/deny this behaviour.
With a 4% increase in LB overload damage, the lightning bolt sim gains 138.8 dps average and with a glyphed 10% increase the LvB gains 183.7 dps.
It looks like simcraft is not considering glyphs in overload dps somehow, and these results don't really change anything, except that the lavaburst glyph is upwards of 40 dps stronger than LB compared to what was originally thought/simmed. This dps difference will probably be larger for those with more haste and/or mastery than mine too since there will be more overloads. I am at Ilevel 393 without DTR.
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For those of you interested, I ran these sims to check the dps of these glyphs because I miss regularly 2/3 lava surge procs per fight due to latency/player skill. To calculate the dps loss per glyph configuration I simply swapped out 3 lavaburst casts for 3 lightning bolt casts and calculated the % of casts and % of dps lost/gained per additional LB and less LvB. With the LB glyph in my gear I would lose 156.31 dps, with LvB 185.0312 dps so only a ~30 dps loss between the glyphs.
Given that a few players are taking LB glyph because they sim so close under perfect spell priority and it allows some player error, you can probably assume that the LvB glyph is still stronger with some mistakes, especially if the simcraft "inaccuracies" are true. This holds true only if you delay Lava surge procs by one cast, and LB only, though missing a lava surge proc to fulm at 9 stacks is probably the same dps loss for both glyphs.
You will have to sim this for your own gear for a 100% definite answer though.
There is some testing being conducted in order to figure out what is going on with the LvB and LB glyph overload dmg. From where I see we stand now, it would appear that LB glyph does NOT currently affect the LB overload dmg in game.
Binkenstein is probably going to confirm this eventually, but I think the focus has moved primarily to LvB and figuring out exactly what the deal is with it as it currently seems to affect the overload, but the math isn't yet conclusive.
While I know testing on a dummy isn't ideal, I'd recommend it to confirm/disprove this on your own. This debate isn't concluded as of yet, and I've not yet had time to run my own dummy tests.
Is the mastery needed to be rounded up to a exact number, throwing away decimal?
I was always trying to reforge Mastery to 17.00 or 18.00 (with my current gear), I even talked with a GM about a month ago and he said me that decimals are wasted Mastery rating, but yesterday I saw this when I was about to reforge >.<
12/11/11, 7:42 AM
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