[Elemental] Cataclysm Discussion - Patch 4.3 - Page 5

DomBomb1 · 01/03/11, 1:53 AM

Originally Posted by masanbol

After going over this I think I can safely say that it's still not all that practical to use UE in a "regular rotation" or spell priority, mainly because of the narrow circumstances under which this would actually work and be a DPS increase. Since you have to cast LvB before FS in order for both spells to benefit from Unleash Flame, the FS DoT would have to already be on the target when LvB is cast to guarantee an LvB crit (or the whole exercise is pointless, missing an LvB crit would negate any DPS gain and then some). That suggests that you're clipping FS, which reduces the amount of damage you're going to gain from the boosted spell by an amount equal to the number of ticks you clip.

This means that in order for it to be a DPS increase over an LB, you would need to take the 20% extra damage from LvB and FS, subtract the total damage from the number of ticks you clip when casting FS, and compare that to a single LB, taking into account things like Overloads and Rolling Thunder shield procs. I think it could be a slight DPS increase when used just as FS is ending (i.e. clipping only a single tick of the DoT), but it still wouldn't really fit in our spell priority.

Recasting flame shock while the dot has less than one tick remaining does NOT clip the dot like it would have in the past. Instead, the new dot gets an extra tick from the one leftover tick. You only get to keep one extra tick though - if you recast it earlier you lose any additional "clipped" ticks.

However, this gives you a VERY narrow window to cast UE, cast lava burst + flame shock, and have the flame shock land with one tick remaining. It won't even happen often, and you might give up potential lava surge procs if you delay lava burst to try to cast UE with this kinda timing.

dulche · 01/04/11, 1:55 PM

All these discussions about UE are missing a pretty central point, there are practically no "stand still and dps" fights in raids right now. With that said, unless you have SWG up, which will often not be the case due to the long CD, UE is very effective while moving. So even if there are special circumstances under which it would be a dps gain in your rotation, you're risking having it on CD when you have to move, which over the course of most fights will be damage loss. Casting anything while moving beats the hell of having nothing to cast.

damejane · 01/04/11, 9:47 PM

Originally Posted by masanbol

What should I use for AoE?
If you're lazy (and you should be), just use Earthquake. If you feel like being competitive on trash for some reason, you can run in to drop Magma before using Earthquake. Fire Nova is not better than Earthquake, so don't bother with it.

I hope this isn't too hand holding as this is the only reference to AOE for elemental shamans I have seen.

I wanted to verify whether it's better dps to use earthquake on multiple adds during raids or is it better to use chain lightning on every cool down. From what I've seen, using chain lighting procs more lightning shield charges, which in turn, allows for fulmination (ES) to be used more often. This appears to be better dps as the most I've ever seen earthquake hit for on a single target is about 5k.

If using chain lightning is better, is it worth keeping flame shock up on one target or is it better to use fulmination at every chance possible? If not, is there a general rule to stick to on how many mobs need to be up for earthquake to be effective?

dulche · 01/05/11, 4:08 PM

Originally Posted by damejane

I hope this isn't too hand holding as this is the only reference to AOE for elemental shamans I have seen.

I wanted to verify whether it's better dps to use earthquake on multiple adds during raids or is it better to use chain lightning on every cool down. From what I've seen, using chain lighting procs more lightning shield charges, which in turn, allows for fulmination (ES) to be used more often. This appears to be better dps as the most I've ever seen earthquake hit for on a single target is about 5k.

If using chain lightning is better, is it worth keeping flame shock up on one target or is it better to use fulmination at every chance possible? If not, is there a general rule to stick to on how many mobs need to be up for earthquake to be effective?

Kind of hard to calculate exactly how many targets it takes to make it a dps increase to go to Earthquake over CH with regular rotation. My impression through raid experience is that there are specific times when Earthquake is good, and they're fairly obvious. When you have at least 6 or more adds spawn that need to be aoe'd down quickly, that's a good time. Magmaw larvas and Halfus whelplings are a couple of examples. Any situation where you have less than 5 targets in relative proximity it's better to single target dps the priority target and spam CH on CD.

Keeping FS up on your main target takes precedence over casting fulmination even while using CH, lava burst refresh and crit being the main reasons for that.

Delphi · 01/05/11, 11:46 PM

It's also worth mentioning that CL returns a significant amount of mana via Rolling Thunder, whereas EQ can easily run a shaman OOM in a very short time because it gives us no mana returns.

Xrtn · 01/07/11, 1:00 AM

I've been trying to formulate a gear set that uses four piece tier11, however, with the current meta gem situation (getting fixed + we're getting an awesome new +Int/+3% damage meta), I can't find a viable setup.

For the most part, I've been choosing gear that contains haste and mastery modifiers, such as Ritssyn's Ruminous Drape, Ring of the Boy Emperor, and the Signet of the Fifth Circle. However, when pairing this with four piece t10 (which the set bonus looks fairly decent), I run about 2.7% (~275 hit) under hit cap (as Draenei). Now, I'm not sure if the Wowhead profiler is currently accurate in the math calculations or not, but I've been swapping some pieces in and out and the best current gloves (with spirit) that I can find (while keeping the other four pieces as tier), are the resto t11 set gloves.

Has anyone attempted to make a gear set that contains four piece t11, hit cap, etc?

fengc817 · 01/07/11, 1:53 PM

Would Healing Stream ticks proc the new Mandala of Stirring Patterns (Int proc instead of Mastery)? if it does then this trinket could very well be better than Stump of Time for elemental shamans. I currently don't have the trinket to test with.

Xrtn · 01/07/11, 2:10 PM

I tested Power Torrent with five minutes of healing stream ticks and got no procs. If the trinket behaves the same, as it likely will, then it won't work as you hope. I'll test further once I can purchase the trinket.

Finnober · 01/08/11, 8:46 AM

Since I couldn't find another BiS-list I made my own.

chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta

I think Heart of Ignacious should be a little better than Bell of Enraging Resonance... but only by 40 dps.
As engineer you can't stack the trinket with the gloveenchant, so it'll propably better to choose Bell of Enraging Resonance.

Taurmenothe · 01/08/11, 3:40 PM

Originally Posted by Finnober

Since I couldn't find another BiS-list I made my own.

chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta

I think Heart of Ignacious should be a little better than Bell of Enraging Resonance... but only by 40 dps.
As engineer you can't stack the trinket with the gloveenchant, so it'll propably better to choose Bell of Enraging Resonance.

Glove enchant is on a 1 min cd, heart is on a 2 min CD. Won't be hard to coordinate them so they don't overlap.

thordinrokbeard · 01/08/11, 8:19 PM

Unless I'm missing something and depending on stat weights in BiS gear, I believe chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta slightly edges out your setup (I went in and added/upgraded all of the enchants that I saw weren't there in your setup also.) My setup comes out with slightly more int and haste, but loses some mastery and crit.

Stormaker · 01/11/11, 10:10 AM

I like, for only normal encounters, chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta this gear, where the belt and ring (if you are lucky enough) are with spirit/haste, which gives you more than 1.3% hit which you need to be capped

kayonn · 01/11/11, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Stormaker

I like, for only normal encounters, chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta this gear, where the belt and ring (if you are lucky enough) are with spirit/haste, which gives you more than 1.3% hit which you need to be capped

I think your BIS would look better this way: chardev 8 - Cataclysm Beta switched the relic [Relic of Golganneth] to the correct one [Relic of Norgannon] and switched [Enchant Weapon - Hurricane] enchant to [Enchant Weapon - Power Torrent] since Power torrent has a higher EP value.

Delphi · 01/11/11, 1:50 PM

Haven't seen this mentioned or edited into the first post, but in Patch 4.0.6 the Chaotic Shadowspirit Diamond is having its meta requirements changed. At the same time, though, new meta gems with 3% crit dmg will be added. The Burning Shadowspirit Diamond (Intellect + Crit Dmg) one looks like it will be our preferred choice for metas.

Jewelcrafting

* Meta gems with the Chaotic and Relentless prefixes now have a requirement of 3 red gems.
* New meta gems have been added: Agile Shadowspirit Diamond (Agility/3% critical damage), Reverberating Shadowspirit Diamond (Strength/3% critical damage), and Burning Shadowspirit Diamond (Intellect/3% critical damage). These new recipes are unbound and can drop from any Cataclysm creature. The new meta gems have a requirement of 3 red gems equipped.

source

♦ masanbol · 01/11/11, 3:47 PM

Originally Posted by Delphi

Haven't seen this mentioned or edited into the first post, but in Patch 4.0.6 the Chaotic Shadowspirit Diamond is having its meta requirements changed. At the same time, though, new meta gems with 3% crit dmg will be added. The Burning Shadowspirit Diamond (Intellect + Crit Dmg) one looks like it will be our preferred choice for metas.

source

I'll update the OP with this information once 4.0.6 is closer to release. Until then, I've changed it to reflect current thoughts on metas since it took them so long to fix this issue.