[Enhancement] BiS gear and set-up discussion (4.3 and onward) - Page 9

Cochice · 12/04/11, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Callo

From my understanding the static agi from the matrix does much more than straight up dodge, the mastery proc gives much larger savage defense shields, etc. If anything it's probably pretty close but another benefit for bear Druids using the matrix is that the trinket is just as good when he goes cat when not tanking on madness of deathwing. The latest version of the sim doesn't have the vial (unless I'm stupid and havent found the new version) so I can't tell for sure what's best.

This isn't the place for a Bear trinket discussion, so I will only post briefly about it.

If you look at straight stat weights (which I found here, dodge has a value of 0.73396 (normalized to Agi = 1). That gives the trinket a value of 726.6204 EP. By comparison, the Agi on Restabilizer is worth 458 EP, and the proc should be worth about 321 (Mast = .61), which does put it very slightly ahead of Restab. However, as we know all too well, evaluating a proc with stat weights is generally a bad idea, and this holds true for tanks as well as DPS.

Basically, it's very much up in the air, and I'd hardly say that restabilizer is "for sure" better than Resolve.

Bartuc · 12/07/11, 8:17 AM

I'm actually in a dilemma right in regards to running the double 2p bonus for t12 and t13. My main issue is that I have a) the LFR tier and b) its the helm and gloves. I would be replacing heroic tier 12 in both slots, and I have to wonder if the loss of raw stats and ratings would be made up for in t13 2p bonus. It would be a no brainer if it was regular t13 or even the LFR versions of the shoulders and chest due to the extra sockets. I simmed it and got some odd results (its showing a dps loss for reg t13 2p+hero t12 2p), but I'll keep poking at it until I get some concrete results and post them here.

On a unrelated note, I was able to pick up Heroic Vial of Shadows tonight, and the boost is pretty substantial. It scales on a straight 1 to 1 attack power ratio, is able to crit and the heroic version starts at a higher base damage. Heroic Vial coupled with my Wrath of Unchaining is just silly damage, and I am fully confident saying that the pair is BiS.

dekkon · 12/09/11, 3:05 PM

My question may seems to be very simple,that is How the "Maelstrom Weapon x4 Lightning Bolt with Spirit Wolves"in the priority team be works out?Did i miss some important SIM?And How this works in game?

darkInertia · 12/09/11, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by dekkon

My question may seems to be very simple,that is How the "Maelstrom Weapon x4 Lightning Bolt with Spirit Wolves"in the priority team be works out?Did i miss some important SIM?And How this works in game?

I would guess it's due to the tier bonus, "Your Feral Spirits have a 45% chance to grant you a charge of Maelstrom Weapon each time they deal damage." When the wolves are active, you would want to minimize the time when you have a full five-stack of MW but have not yet used them.

Weerarah · 12/14/11, 5:51 PM

I think it's new and worthwhile to point out that simming says the +65 Crit cloak enchant is beating the +22 Agi cloak enchant this tier.

Myranne · 12/14/11, 11:12 PM

Ive also found while using the Sim that using mass Adept Lava Corals over straight agi is providing more dps... In saying that it also says that the current BiS gear setup listed is 200 points over the expertise cap and also doesn't have trinkets working.

Prizefighterinferno · 12/15/11, 6:14 PM

I have a question about the current priority - I have done a few searches and not found an answer yet.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

That log is from one of the top ranked enhance ultraxion fights - my spell/damage spread is very similar to this I just thought showing someone with better gear may make it more relevant.

This shows Lava Lash clearly doing a lot more damage than stormstrike/SS offhand even with its higher cooldown - the stormstrike buff would surely always be up anyway if we prioritised SS behind LL.

I'm sure theres a simple answer to this one but I really cant see it

could someone answer why SS is above LL in the rotation?.

Ontheroxorz · 12/15/11, 7:57 PM

The reason that SS is prioritized higher than LL is because of its short cooldown and moderate damage output actually causes you to be able to squeeze more SS in the span of the encounter with a net result of increased DPS. Front-loading the debuffs Stormstrike and Stormfire (4 piece tier 12 set bonus) are an added benefit to placing SS at the top of your stack.

Prizefighterinferno · 12/15/11, 8:27 PM

sorry but that doesn't make any sense (if i understand correctly).

this dps log shows lava lash doing more total damage in the fight - im talking about a situation in which BOTH storm strike and lavalash are up, why would be prioritise storm strike?

Nightstarzz · 12/16/11, 2:08 AM

Originally Posted by Prizefighterinferno

sorry but that doesn't make any sense (if i understand correctly).

this dps log shows lava lash doing more total damage in the fight - im talking about a situation in which BOTH storm strike and lavalash are up, why would be prioritise storm strike?

Stormstrike has 8 sec CD.
Lava Lash has 10 sec CD.

If you use Lava Lash first, counting the 1.5 sec GCD, and SS after, you will have the EXACT same amount of SS and LL over one fight. (with a 0.5 sec downtime where you HAVE to wait and do nothing since SS will come off cd 0.5 before LL every time).
IF you use SS first, it will have a new and separate cooldown, that will only overlap every 3rd or 4th rotation (can't remember exactly). Hence allowing you to "press more buttons" in the end, roughly doing 20% more SS.

Hope that cleared up your doubts.

Myranne · 12/16/11, 2:56 AM

I was wondering if people would be able to help me with some napkin math (or real math).

I've just finished siming the current listed BiS setup and then sim'd the same setup but changed the belt to the cord of dragon sinew (valor point waist) and regem'd all delicate queens to adept lava corals and the adept lava corals to fractured lightstones. In doing so the sim's i did show'd about an 800dps difference.

That all said, the math I need helping with is trying to figure out the breakpoint where Mastery > agi (in the sense that the SP and Crit given from AGI will be less than the % increase that mastery gives to LL and LB etc). It seems that we aren't far off and also considering our current BiS weapons are effected by our mastery it should in theory lower that amount as well.

ziff · 12/16/11, 3:16 AM

Originally Posted by Myranne

I was wondering if people would be able to help me with some napkin math (or real math).

I've just finished siming the current listed BiS setup and then sim'd the same setup but changed the belt to the cord of dragon sinew (valor point waist) and regem'd all delicate queens to adept lava corals and the adept lava corals to fractured lightstones. In doing so the sim's i did show'd about an 800dps difference.

That all said, the math I need helping with is trying to figure out the breakpoint where Mastery > agi (in the sense that the SP and Crit given from AGI will be less than the % increase that mastery gives to LL and LB etc). It seems that we aren't far off and also considering our current BiS weapons are effected by our mastery it should in theory lower that amount as well.

Could you share out your config.txt, just to make sure everybody is looking at the same set of data.

Myranne · 12/16/11, 4:56 AM

This is for the current BiS setup

miss                143617         5.67%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            606626         23.93%
hit                 458248         18.08%
crit                1326533        52.33%
average ap          23748.51
clip                19664          0.77%
reset               0              0.00%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.81%
procs/swings        15.04%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 594903         44.68%
crit                736695         55.32%
average ap          23724.39

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 187464         45.14%
crit                227813         54.86%
average ap          23666.58

MH Unleashed Weapon Windfury:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 95975          44.59%
crit                119251         55.41%
average ap          23724.63

MH No'Kaled Procs:
hit                 149694         76.28%
crit                46556          23.72%
average mastery     1602.00

OH:
miss                143201         5.65%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            608501         24.00%
hit                 457143         18.03%
crit                1326176        52.31%
average ap          23741.70
clip                19667          0.77%
reset               0              0.00%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2378437        76.29%
crit                739084         23.71%
cooldown            0              0.00%
average sp          12349.85

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 185840         44.75%
crit                229437         55.25%
average ap          23696.32

OH Unleashed Weapon Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 164126         76.26%
crit                51100          23.74%
average sp          12347.32

OH No'Kaled Procs:
hit                 166861         76.29%
crit                51872          23.71%
average mastery     1602.00

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 107022         41.33%
crit                151897         58.67%
average sp          12287.09

Flame Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 123037         76.33%
crit                38147          23.67%
average sp          12398.40
dots hit            757768         76.31%
dots crit           235241         23.69%
average dot sp      12458.84

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 139517         44.94%
crit                170907         55.06%
average ap          23676.28

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 108791         41.38%
crit                154097         58.62%
average sp          12649.08

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 212155         41.28%
crit                301813         58.72%
average sp          12340.58

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            414532         23.99%
hit                 1261768        73.02%
crit                51700          2.99%
average ap          24194.16

Searing Totem:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1632826        76.25%
crit                508466         23.75%
average sp          12335.82

Searing Flames:
hit                 721481         76.25%
crit                224719         23.75%
average sp          12318.95

Trinket1 Damage:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 57467          44.95%
crit                70385          55.05%

Maelstrom Weapon:                                 PPM
MW5 cast            211900         80.60%         3.53
MW4 cast            50988          19.40%         0.85
MW3 cast            0              0.00%          0.00
MW2 cast            0              0.00%          0.00
MW1 cast            0              0.00%          0.00
proc                3923736                       65.40
proc lost           2600285        66.27%         43.34
proc eaten          14372          0.37%          0.24
efficiency          33.36%

flurry uptime                      93.68%
elemental devastation uptime       85.98%

stormstrike debuff uptime          99.37%
flame shock uptime                 71.38%
lightning shield uptime            100.00%
searing totem uptime               99.63%
searing flame uptime               92.23%
maelstrom weapon uptime            94.63%
UW Windfury uptime                 14.63%
UW Flametongue uptime              29.33%

mh enchant uptime                  44.48%
oh enchant uptime                  36.02%
potion uptime                      8.33%


Set bonus uptimes:
T13 Battlegear 2 piece             94.63%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.06      0.02%
mp5                 21.77     9.16%
replenishment       24.89     10.47%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
primal wisdom       191.00    80.35%
shamanistic rage    0.00      0.00%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               7664.02   18.02%    84.50
windfury            4709.42   11.07%    7.40
flametongue         3637.34   8.55%     51.96
searing flames      978.72    2.30%     15.77
stormstrike         4536.46   10.67%    6.92      54.06     25.27%
lava lash           5747.79   13.51%    5.17      20.20     9.45%
searing totem       3033.02   7.13%     1.20      8.20      3.83%
earth shock         977.34    2.30%     4.32      75.83     35.45%
flame shock         1399.58   3.29%     2.69      44.58     20.84%
  direct damage     379.75    27.13%    2.69
  dot tick          1019.83   72.87%    16.55
lightning bolt      2056.75   4.84%     4.38      0.00      0.00%
lightning shield    1333.44   3.13%     8.57      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       612.02    1.44%     0.60      7.03      3.29%
  melee             612.02    100.00%   28.80
unleashed elements  1596.00   3.75%     3.59      24.51     11.46%
  MH Windfury       844.34    52.90%    3.59
  OH Flametongue    751.66    47.10%    3.59
No'Kaled            2430.11   5.71%     6.92
  MH Flameblast     426.85    17.56%    1.09
  MH Shadowblast    292.77    12.05%    1.09
  MH Iceblast       429.66    17.68%    1.09
  OH Flameblast     476.09    19.59%    1.21
  OH Shadowblast    326.37    13.43%    1.22
  OH Iceblast       478.37    19.68%    1.22
Trinket1            1823.37   4.29%     2.13

DPS                 42535.40
MPS                 213.89
MP2min              25666.25
MRPS                1104.63
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 3.35s
simulation speed: 1075911x
[/quote]

And this is for a mastery setup.

[quote]EnhSim version 2.6.7

................................................................................


MH:
miss                161724         6.43%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            605146         24.07%
hit                 500032         19.89%
crit                1247475        49.61%
average ap          22156.73
clip                19759          0.78%
reset               0              0.00%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.83%
procs/swings        14.96%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 621961         47.32%
crit                692273         52.68%
average ap          22134.59

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 197708         47.74%
crit                216384         52.26%
average ap          22078.91

MH Unleashed Weapon Windfury:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 102089         47.42%
crit                113198         52.58%
average ap          22135.34

MH No'Kaled Procs:
hit                 148875         76.62%
crit                45417          23.38%
average mastery     2395.00

OH:
miss                162157         6.45%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            604378         24.04%
hit                 500152         19.89%
crit                1247713        49.62%
average ap          22149.43
clip                19736          0.78%
reset               0              0.00%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2361507        76.75%
crit                715517         23.25%
cooldown            0              0.00%
average sp          11549.52

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 195995         47.33%
crit                218097         52.67%
average ap          22109.26

OH Unleashed Weapon Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 165210         76.74%
crit                50077          23.26%
average sp          11548.11

OH No'Kaled Procs:
hit                 164530         76.91%
crit                49385          23.09%
average mastery     2395.00

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 108099         41.65%
crit                151434         58.35%
average sp          11488.53

Flame Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 121544         76.75%
crit                36822          23.25%
average sp          11602.37
dots hit            747870         76.78%
dots crit           226235         23.22%
average dot sp      11664.00

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 148124         47.68%
crit                162565         52.32%
average ap          22087.00

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 109152         41.82%
crit                151843         58.18%
average sp          11847.91

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 214366         41.81%
crit                298306         58.19%
average sp          11542.13

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            414329         23.98%
hit                 1261787        73.02%
crit                51884          3.00%
average ap          22604.24

Searing Totem:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1643253        76.73%
crit                498262         23.27%
average sp          11537.29

Searing Flames:
hit                 724972         76.74%
crit                219701         23.26%
average sp          11519.66

Trinket1 Damage:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 60185          47.20%
crit                67336          52.80%

Maelstrom Weapon:                                 PPM
MW5 cast            210511         80.66%         3.51
MW4 cast            50484          19.34%         0.84
MW3 cast            0              0.00%          0.00
MW2 cast            0              0.00%          0.00
MW1 cast            0              0.00%          0.00
proc                3878526                       64.64
proc lost           2564037        66.11%         42.73
proc eaten          14067          0.36%          0.23
efficiency          33.53%

flurry uptime                      92.53%
elemental devastation uptime       85.68%

stormstrike debuff uptime          99.35%
flame shock uptime                 70.63%
lightning shield uptime            100.00%
searing totem uptime               99.62%
searing flame uptime               92.05%
maelstrom weapon uptime            94.58%
UW Windfury uptime                 14.69%
UW Flametongue uptime              29.48%

mh enchant uptime                  43.93%
oh enchant uptime                  35.71%
potion uptime                      8.33%


Set bonus uptimes:
T13 Battlegear 2 piece             94.58%

                    MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.06      0.03%
mp5                 21.96     9.27%
replenishment       25.11     10.60%
unrelenting storm   0.00      0.00%
primal wisdom       189.79    80.11%
shamanistic rage    0.00      0.00%
mana potion         0.00      0.00%
misc                0.00      0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               7066.81   17.09%    83.81
windfury            4380.59   10.59%    7.30
flametongue         3625.74   8.77%     51.28
searing flames      984.52    2.38%     15.74
stormstrike         4241.69   10.26%    6.90      53.90     25.29%
lava lash           5807.62   14.04%    5.18      20.22     9.49%
searing totem       3059.78   7.40%     1.20      8.20      3.85%
earth shock         997.14    2.41%     4.33      76.01     35.67%
flame shock         1393.92   3.37%     2.64      43.80     20.56%
  direct damage     379.83    27.25%    2.64
  dot tick          1014.09   72.75%    16.24
lightning bolt      2068.35   5.00%     4.35      0.00      0.00%
lightning shield    1347.50   3.26%     8.54      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       591.81    1.43%     0.60      7.03      3.30%
  melee             591.81    100.00%   28.80
unleashed elements  1555.62   3.76%     3.59      24.52     11.51%
  MH Windfury       790.74    50.83%    3.59
  OH Flametongue    764.88    49.17%    3.59
No'Kaled            2519.82   6.09%     6.80
  MH Flameblast     455.07    18.06%    1.08
  MH Shadowblast    287.07    11.39%    1.07
  MH Iceblast       459.14    18.22%    1.09
  OH Flameblast     502.74    19.95%    1.19
  OH Shadowblast    316.68    12.57%    1.19
  OH Iceblast       499.13    19.81%    1.18
Trinket1            1720.93   4.16%     2.13

DPS                 41361.84
MPS                 213.11
MP2min              25573.13
MRPS                1091.24
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 3.31s
simulation speed: 1087284x

In these 2 sim's its just over a 1k dps difference. In saying that I could change over to use the t13 gloves as well for some more mastery.

Apologies for the length of this... I have no idea how to condense it into a scroll box.

Ryethe · 12/16/11, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Nightstarzz

Stormstrike has 8 sec CD.
Lava Lash has 10 sec CD.

If you use Lava Lash first, counting the 1.5 sec GCD, and SS after, you will have the EXACT same amount of SS and LL over one fight. (with a 0.5 sec downtime where you HAVE to wait and do nothing since SS will come off cd 0.5 before LL every time).
IF you use SS first, it will have a new and separate cooldown, that will only overlap every 3rd or 4th rotation (can't remember exactly). Hence allowing you to "press more buttons" in the end, roughly doing 20% more SS.

Hope that cleared up your doubts.

It's also important to note that each SS has a chance to proc WF and FT (instead of just FT for LL) and that each hit gives you a chance at 2 MW procs instead of 1 from LL.

Filthie · 12/17/11, 4:31 AM

Originally Posted by Prizefighterinferno

sorry but that doesn't make any sense (if i understand correctly).

this dps log shows lava lash doing more total damage in the fight - im talking about a situation in which BOTH storm strike and lavalash are up, why would be prioritise storm strike?

[Enhancement] 4.3 - At least your old Axe is good for transmog! you can just look it up from there. Just because Lava Lash happens to do more damage in a fight then SS doesn´t mean it should have a higher priority then SS. You have totally ignored that SS has 2 hits, meaning 2 chances of proccing Flurry, LS, WF(mainhand), LS and FT(offhand), whereas LL only has a chance of proccing Flurry and FT.
So overall, SS is more important to use then LL, hence the priority we have atm!

*edit cus i´m typing like the drunk fish i am, fixing typos*