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Old 07/16/11, 1:52 PM   #196
Aanzeijar
Von Kaiser
 
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Goblin Shaman
 
Die Nachtwache (EU)
Haste Breakpoints

Good news everyone. Keldion included resto shaman breakpoints into the Warlock DOT Haste Spreadsheet, and the values he got match observations better than the current estimations. If you work with it, please do so on a local copy, google fails at rounding it seems.

Warlock DOT Haste Spreadsheet

From what I've seen most interesting breakpoints are already correct, but the following will be new. It seems unglyphed Riptide and Healing Rain do not have the same breakpoints. Due to rounding Healing Rain has very slightly lower breakpoints it seems. The correct first combined breakpoint for those seems to be 609 (476).

The first post will get updated with a full list of breakpoints from this soon. (edit 07-19 - done)

Last edited by Aanzeijar : 07/19/11 at 7:09 AM.

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Old 07/22/11, 6:46 PM   #197
Maltese
Von Kaiser
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Azjol-Nerub
It would appear that the current ideas about hitting certain haste breakpoints and reforging the rest into other stats might not necessarily be the best idea based on some thoughts I had yesterday and this morning. I was in the process of writing up a post for the official forums about how to fix haste scaling in regards to HoTs when it dawned on me that possibly the mechanics that blizzard implemented to fix clipping DoTs being wasted dps were also applied to HoTs.

Testing this afternoon confirms that refreshing riptide between the 2nd to last and last hot tick increases the duration of the buff so no ticks are wasted.

7/22 17:05:49.462  SPELL_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 6468
7/22 17:05:52.128  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 4076
7/22 17:05:54.796  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2038
7/22 17:05:57.479  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 4076
7/22 17:06:00.180  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 4076
7/22 17:06:02.796  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2038
7/22 17:06:05.479  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2038
7/22 17:06:08.229  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2038
7/22 17:06:10.796  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2038

7/22 17:06:15.847  SPELL_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 13316
7/22 17:06:18.529  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 4196
7/22 17:06:21.196  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2098
7/22 17:06:23.879  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 4197
7/22 17:06:26.512  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2098
7/22 17:06:29.196  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2098
7/22 17:06:31.863  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2098
7/22 17:06:34.529  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2098 
7/22 17:06:35.746  SPELL_HEAL "Malt"  "Riptide" 6468
7/22 17:06:37.196  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2038
7/22 17:06:39.846  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2038
7/22 17:06:42.529  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2038
7/22 17:06:45.195  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2039
7/22 17:06:47.847  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2038
7/22 17:06:50.514  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 4076
7/22 17:06:53.412  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2038
7/22 17:06:55.862  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 4076
7/22 17:06:58.513  SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Malt" "Riptide" 2038
The above testing was done with 916 haste and WoA totem down. As you can see from the combat log snipet that refreshing riptide between the last two ticks successfully extended the duration so the last tick was not wasted. This means that having haste levels above the 916 level and refreshing the duration of the riptide hot allows the hot to fully benefit from haste scaling between breakpoints. Haste continues to allow the hot to tick faster regardless of getting additional ticks or not and refreshing just allows us to continue on with that scaling with no net loss.

Since riptide is the only realistically controllable hot that has the next breakpoint within reach and everyone can agree that haste benefits throughput past certain breakpoints, this just further proves that haste benefits hot throughput with no loss in ticks (in the case of riptide at least).

You would just need to figure the time between ticks for your haste level and refresh riptide when the HoT has a duration of less than that. In the case of Riptide, the time between ticks for 916 haste level (8 ticks) is 2.8 seconds and between 2005 haste (9 Ticks) is 2.471 seconds. Very useful if you are rolling riptides on tanks and using that to bounce CH's off with T12 4 piece set bonus.

All that said it seems to me that we can focus less on reforging gear to hit exact breakpoint figures and focus more on exactly what we need to be a more effective healer. A good balance of all three stats might end up being best instead of stacking one or the other.

Haste: Pretty much a full throughput stat with the added regen of faster LB for telluric currents
Crit: Throughput stat as well as regen stat
Mastery: Throughput stat that performs better when raid health is low

Last edited by Maltese : 07/22/11 at 6:51 PM.

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Old 07/24/11, 12:37 PM   #198
Darkwing Duck
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Originally Posted by Maltese View Post
It would appear that the current ideas about hitting certain haste breakpoints and reforging the rest into other stats might not necessarily be the best idea based on some thoughts I had yesterday and this morning. I was in the process of writing up a post for the official forums about how to fix haste scaling in regards to HoTs when it dawned on me that possibly the mechanics that blizzard implemented to fix clipping DoTs being wasted dps were also applied to HoTs.

Testing this afternoon confirms that refreshing riptide between the 2nd to last and last hot tick increases the duration of the buff so no ticks are wasted.
At least from reading the resto druid thread, this has been know for a while.
I realise playing Rshaman is very different from Rdruid and I try to keep Riptide on the tank(s) at all times, but I also cast it a lot on people who need the healing at the time and so it falls off the tank for a few seconds rather often.
Also, wouldn't the extra throughput from more mastery/crit between haste breakpoints be more beneficial anyway?

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Old 07/24/11, 1:33 PM   #199
Iol
Don Flamenco
 
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Durotan
Originally Posted by Darkwing Duck View Post
Also, wouldn't the extra throughput from more mastery/crit between haste breakpoints be more beneficial anyway?
I believe so. I tried reforging for haste but I ended going back to a balance of crit roughly = to mastery while keeping just around 1k haste rating. It really didn't make a noticable enough change on the cast time under Tidal Waves.

The only time I would take haste heavier setup would be during CH / HR heavy phases, but being a troll, I save berserking for those.

You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone.

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Old 07/24/11, 7:22 PM   #200
Esoda
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Wildhammer
Originally Posted by Maltese View Post
In the case of Riptide, the time between ticks for 916 haste level (8 ticks)
There's a small correction that needs to be made with your post: 916 is an Earthliving breakpoint.

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Old 07/24/11, 8:29 PM   #201
Maltese
Von Kaiser
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Azjol-Nerub
Originally Posted by Esoda View Post
There's a small correction that needs to be made with your post: 916 is an Earthliving breakpoint.
Actually that is my point, you are not benefiting from haste hot ticks at 916 past 260 haste rating breakpoint unless you refresh it. Since just about everyone reaches the 916 breakpoint level, casting riptide between the 2nd to last and last tick means we fully benefit from the additional haste. Obviously the time between ticks at 916 isn't the 2.8 seconds I stated but you can see the point I was making.

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Old 07/25/11, 10:04 AM   #202
Sheeana
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Defias Brotherhood (EU)
I was once again looking at our 4-set T12 restoration bonus and still find it a bit lackluster in a 10man environment. Due to this I've been thinking about going 2-set restoration and 2-set elemental instead, with a 7/2/32 Telluric Currents spec. Still pondering about changing a few talent points around.

As far as I can tell from what people write, the initial Flame Shock damage along with its ticks are able to reset the Fire Elemental cooldown. With two points in Elemental Precision we should easily be able to reach the 17% hit cap and at the same time it will increase the effectiveness of Telluric Currents. Assuming the usual 916 haste rating and that we use the minimum amount of Flame Shocks to reach a 100% uptime, there should be at least 70 damage events that can cause a cooldown reset. With 8% chance to reset per event it should be pretty easy to get a 100% uptime (not considering that it may die to some kind of damage or that it starts chasing random unreachable mobs).

Finally, keeping Flame Shock running will give us some additional choices for trinkets. I'm specifically thinking about Necromantic Focus in this regard. What are peoples view on going 2-set elemental as restoration in a 10man environment? Is anyone else playing around with this idea?

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Old 07/25/11, 12:01 PM   #203
Fieldcrest
Glass Joe
 
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Icecrown
Originally Posted by Sheeana View Post
I was once again looking at our 4-set T12 restoration bonus and still find it a bit lackluster in a 10man environment. Due to this I've been thinking about going 2-set restoration and 2-set elemental instead, with a 7/2/32 Telluric Currents spec.
As far as I can tell, what you're talking about are 2 completely different philosophies; sacrificing a "lackluster" 4pc for a 2pc that is purely damage oriented. On top of that, it's hard to give the correct weight to the healing you'd be giving up without your resto 4pc, and the extra damage you'd bring to the raid with an ele 2pc. Is 5k DPS better than 2K HPS? (arbitrary numbers)

Obviously in a 25man raiding environment I wouldn't even think about this. I suppose I can find the lack of appeal to our 4pc in certain 10man environments. Ultimately, you'd be sacrificing your 4pc bonus for roughly 5k dps(Correct me if I'm wrong). I just don't think it's worth it from a healing stand-point.

Originally Posted by Sheeana View Post
Finally, keeping Flame Shock running will give us some additional choices for trinkets. I'm specifically thinking about Necromantic Focus in this regard. What are peoples view on going 2-set elemental as restoration in a 10man environment? Is anyone else playing around with this idea?
I'm pretty sure it was discussed earlier in the thread. If you run an FI build you can accomplish the Flame Shock uptime for an actual HPS increase, rather than for it's damage alone. So I think that's sort of beside the tier piece discussion. That said, I haven't seen any numbers on Necromantic Focus so I don't really know how viable that is.

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Old 07/25/11, 12:53 PM   #204
Sheeana
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Defias Brotherhood (EU)
Originally Posted by Fieldcrest View Post
As far as I can tell, what you're talking about are 2 completely different philosophies; sacrificing a "lackluster" 4pc for a 2pc that is purely damage oriented. On top of that, it's hard to give the correct weight to the healing you'd be giving up without your resto 4pc, and the extra damage you'd bring to the raid with an ele 2pc. Is 5k DPS better than 2K HPS? (arbitrary numbers)
It will of course be a fight-by-fight choice as there are a couple of 10man fights where Chain Heal will be of significant value (Beth'tical and Staghelm specifically). But on the remaining fights Chain Heal are normally a fraction of my total healing (and often just non-existant). This is why I find it quite lackluster and why I'm considering the 2-piece elemental for these fights.

Originally Posted by Fieldcrest View Post
Obviously in a 25man raiding environment I wouldn't even think about this. I suppose I can find the lack of appeal to our 4pc in certain 10man environments. Ultimately, you'd be sacrificing your 4pc bonus for roughly 5k dps(Correct me if I'm wrong). I just don't think it's worth it from a healing stand-point.
Yeah, no question about it (4pc) being awesome for 25man - it's only in 10man it might make sense to go 2pc elemental. I also find that 5k is actually quite substantial in a 10man environment if we're talking little-to-no loss of healing.

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Old 07/30/11, 10:33 AM   #205
Drmurray
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Shaman
 
Nazjatar
Macros and Hex

Here are two questions:
First, I've noticed trough the wandering on Resto Shams topics that nobody talks about macros. I myself dont use a single, but was hoping to find something that could match my playstile. Maybe a macro mouseover for LB would work, I dont know.

Also, I would state that TC is working pretty nicely for me. I rarely fall bellow 80k Mana on Heroics (specially timed ZA's with the need for Big Heals). Only some raid encounters make me feel needy for mana, if there is only another healer. Again, may be noted that casting LB while raid healing with Healing Rain keeps you mana full almost all the time on normal encounters.

The second question is a bug: I found in my Hex as Resto sometimes breaks out of nothing, with less than 20 sec duration. Is this happening to any of you? Its wierd because my ench's hex is working ok...

Tyvm for your care, GJ on researching more and more!
Dont worry, be happy!

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Old 07/30/11, 11:50 AM   #206
• Jessamy
Struck by Diax's Rake
 
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Troll Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Crowd control can break early if you're below the hit cap. I see that you don't have any points in elemental precision, and so you have 0% hit. Adds in a raid are usually level 87, so you'll have a 16% miss chance against them.


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Old 07/31/11, 1:10 PM   #207
Maltese
Von Kaiser
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Azjol-Nerub
On the topic of macros

Pretty much all of my healing spell macros look like this:
#showtooltip
/cast [mod:alt]Nature's Swiftness
/cast [@mouseover,help][help][@targettarget,help][]Greater Healing Wave
Pretty standard for a mouseover macro but with an added modifier for nature's swiftness.

My spammable purge/cleanse macro bound to my mousewheel up
#showtooltip Cleanse Spirit
/cast [@mouseover,help][help] Cleanse Spirit;[@mouseover,harm][harm] Purge
Finally my prepot+drink macro for an extra bit of mana at the start of a fight/Dark Rune+Cocentration pot for mid fight mana combined with my mouseover GotN macro
/use [mod:alt,combat]Dark Rune
/use [mod:alt,combat]Potion of Concentration
/use [mod:alt,nocombat]Volcanic Potion
/use [mod:alt,nocombat]Conjured Mana Cake;[@mouseover,help][help][@targettarget,help]Gift of the Naaru

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Old 08/01/11, 7:37 AM   #208
Nerethos
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Stormrage (EU)
Hello everybody

I need a quick sanity check, I play a resto shaman at 85. I used rawr for the first time earlier in the week and, with my current gear, it's telling me I should reforge all my secondary stats to crit (apart from spirit on the obvious items). Now this doesn't seem right to me, can anybody shed some light on this?

Thanks

*EDIT* I've just seen that the resto model isn't fully functional. But even so i think this is a bit wierd?

Last edited by Nerethos : 08/01/11 at 7:43 AM.

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Old 08/01/11, 1:33 PM   #209
Fieldcrest
Glass Joe
 
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Icecrown
Originally Posted by Nerethos View Post
Now this doesn't seem right to me, can anybody shed some light on this?
Pretty simple answer there if you missed the changes in 4.2. (I'm assuming you did since it doesn't look like a shaman is your main) The modifier for critical heals on all classes was changed from 1.5 to 2. (when you crit with a healing spell is heals for 100% more, rather than 50%). They also revamped Imp Water Shield into Resurgence; which gives a good bit more mana back than the previous talent.

TL;DR 4.2 made crit a lot more attractive.

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Old 08/01/11, 4:55 PM   #210
Warelle
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Auchindoun (EU)
Originally Posted by Drmurray View Post
Here are two questions:
First, I've noticed trough the wandering on Resto Shams topics that nobody talks about macros. I myself dont use a single, but was hoping to find something that could match my playstile. Maybe a macro mouseover for LB would work, I dont know.
I bind LB to scroll up/scroll down .

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