[Resto] Raiding 4.1 - updating for 4.3 - Page 21

dekkon · 12/07/11, 2:14 AM

Todays hotfixes:
Mana Tide Totem now benefits from Heart of Unliving.
All three Heart of Unliving trinkets now additionally provide a passive intellect bonus.

Doxq · 12/07/11, 6:50 AM

With those two changes the Heart of Unliving is now indisputably best in slot alongside SotSS.

Rahdik · 12/09/11, 2:47 PM

I'm torn on the 4p bonus. As it is now I only have issues with healing on Ultraxion and Madness and that is largely due to dead people. With all of the raid alive, the damage is lessened. I feel a mini-heroism just leads to more mana used and meter padding.

Zoya · 12/10/11, 4:16 PM

If anyone is interested in the numbers for the Maw of the Dragonlord (403), here is a log from our Heroic Warlord Zon'ozz kill. Its doing about 8% of my healing overal. This was with me not being behind the raid all the time and I think if I would position myself better I could reach higher numbers with it(since it works in a frontal cone).
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Aanzeijar · 12/11/11, 6:45 AM

There are some weird drops in the procs healings in your log. Is there a mortal strike mechanic I don't know of on Zonozz? For example:

[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Snipes +0 (O: 4358)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Predax +3886
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Pryd +4641
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Golf +0 (O: 5097)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Ðecent +4385
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Ireath +4567
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Ngebe +*9821*
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Hierty +4910
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Shadowmagé +0 (O: 4711)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Suìcìde +*6944*
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Ted +3932
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Nokodohere +*6940*
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Motoma +3844
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Gertrude +0 (O: 4845)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Zoomk�*n +3478
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Deviló +0 (O: 4712)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Smegdead +*0* (O: 9136)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Donny +0 (O: 3739)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Mirror Image +*0* (O: 7085)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Shadowfiend +0 (O: 4052)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Shadowfiend +0 (O: 4836)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Klux +0 (O: 5177)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Alexis +0 (O: 3449)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Toothravager +0 (O: 3305)

Same happens to your paladin.

Megabane · 12/12/11, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Rahdik

I'm torn on the 4p bonus. As it is now I only have issues with healing on Ultraxion and Madness and that is largely due to dead people. With all of the raid alive, the damage is lessened. I feel a mini-heroism just leads to more mana used and meter padding.

I hear ya, and atm I'm rocking both 2 piece T12 and T13, so I've got all the mana I need. Although, I'm willing to bet as I work on more hard modes and lose my T12 2 piece mana gains for the 4 pc T13 I'm going to want that burst in haste when my mana pool dips low and my mana tide is on cd to throw out some fast lightning bolts and recover lots of mana asap.

The latter portion of Ultraxion, this may or may not be viable as the damage output is insane so there may not be enough free globals to do so, but I know i gained over 700k mana throwing bolts at low damage phases of DW.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Either way, I miss bouncing chains off of my riptide targets on purpose xP

Rustjive · 12/12/11, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Zoya

If anyone is interested in the numbers for the Maw of the Dragonlord (403), here is a log from our Heroic Warlord Zon'ozz kill. Its doing about 8% of my healing overal. This was with me not being behind the raid all the time and I think if I would position myself better I could reach higher numbers with it(since it works in a frontal cone).
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

It most definitely can. Here is a log from my 25N Ultraxion, where one can maintain essentially perfect positioning on the other 24 raid members. I took red buff, but it should make no difference in the ratio of Cleansing Flames to my other spells. 16.6% of my healing with 48.2% overheal.

Edit: Forgot link - World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Zoya · 12/12/11, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Aanzeijar

There are some weird drops in the procs healings in your log. Is there a mortal strike mechanic I don't know of on Zonozz? For example:

[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Snipes +0 (O: 4358)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Predax +3886
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Pryd +4641
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Golf +0 (O: 5097)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Ðecent +4385
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Ireath +4567
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Ngebe +*9821*
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Hierty +4910
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Shadowmagé +0 (O: 4711)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Suìcìde +*6944*
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Ted +3932
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Nokodohere +*6940*
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Motoma +3844
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Gertrude +0 (O: 4845)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Zoomk�*n +3478
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Deviló +0 (O: 4712)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Smegdead +*0* (O: 9136)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Donny +0 (O: 3739)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Mirror Image +*0* (O: 7085)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Shadowfiend +0 (O: 4052)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Shadowfiend +0 (O: 4836)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Klux +0 (O: 5177)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Alexis +0 (O: 3449)
[22:47:43.297] Zoyá Cleansing Flames Toothravager +0 (O: 3305)

Same happens to your paladin.

I really dont know why this is happening, as far as i'm aware there are no healing reduce abilities on this fight. I have a more logs if you would be interested. I myself 'just' raid and am not a math genius (which is what I hope to read on these forums).

Originally Posted by Rustjive

It most definitely can. Here is a log from my 25N Ultraxion, where one can maintain essentially perfect positioning on the other 24 raid members. I took red buff, but it should make no difference in the ratio of Cleansing Flames to my other spells. 16.6% of my healing with 48.2% overheal.

Edit: Forgot link - World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I know it does that much in those fights, on Warlord Zon'ozz heroic these is movement involved unlike Ultraxxion, after having healed so long on my shaman without caring about my placement compared to the raid stacking it takes some getting used to with the mace but my numbers will most definately increase on movement fights.

Aanzeijar · 12/12/11, 5:06 PM

The drops are also present on Rustjives log. It's worth noting that if such a drop occurs, the whole proc is affected. Also the drop can be anywhere from 0% to 50%.

Long shot: Maybe the healer can partially resist the proc based on fire resistance (Cleansing Flames). Maybe someone with the mace could get a paladin, and test it out with aura mastery. That should give you guaranteed resists.

nilshaus · 12/12/11, 5:40 PM

Is Cleansing Flames - Spell - World of Warcraft the correct spell? If so, it is in the Holy school.

Aanzeijar · 12/12/11, 5:43 PM

Yes, but the proc itself is shadow: Item - Dragon Soul - Proc - Int Spirit Mace 1H Heroic - Spell - World of Warcraft

But anyway, it's a very long shot that would explain 0-50% losses in healing.

Migosha · 12/14/11, 9:57 AM

The effect is supposed to heal players as flollows :
- 5960 to 8940 hp for the HM version.
- 5280 to 7920 for the normal version.
- 4677 to 7016 for the lfr version.
The weapon's effect can crit but we can guess that mastery and spell power don't affect it. Zoya said he had the normal version so there shouldn't be any heal under 5280 and according to the log every non-crit heal was below 5280. It would be strange that it would be due to resists as heals aren't supposed to be resisted by players (hopefully), but shouldn't it be due to 'max target cap mechanics' for a zone heal ? Meaning that above 7-10 players in the area of effect of the spell the heals produced get nerfed to a certain total healing done ? It would explain Zoya's log as he did a perfect 24-players hit.

I'm still hesitating about the lfr version of that mace. There isn't a big difference between lfr and normal version Cleansing Flames but the lfr version is a lot of stat (mainly spell power) loss compaired to Ragnaros's HM Ko'Gun.

Arkoth · 12/14/11, 11:19 AM

Some more logs of the normal version mace:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Hagara and Ultraxion, both don't have any healing debuffs. I had the red buff on Ultraxion

Doxq · 12/15/11, 2:18 AM

The internal cooldown of the mace is approximately 12-15 seconds and the proc chance is 10%, for reference. Does anyone know a good way of tracking it, either through Power Auras, NTK or another similar addon?

GrayMatter · 12/15/11, 7:03 AM

Originally Posted by Aanzeijar

The drops are also present on Rustjives log. It's worth noting that if such a drop occurs, the whole proc is affected. Also the drop can be anywhere from 0% to 50%.

Long shot: Maybe the healer can partially resist the proc based on fire resistance (Cleansing Flames). Maybe someone with the mace could get a paladin, and test it out with aura mastery. That should give you guaranteed resists.

Perhaps a really stupid thought but could it not just be that the people in question had full health and therefore didn't need a heal?

Edit: Oh, I see that you are referring to the size of the heal. Appologies, misunderstood. If it was resistance, wouldn't that effect all people and not just some?