[Resto] It's Raining Heals 5.2 - Page 3

Judgejoebrwn · 10/11/12, 9:38 PM

Originally Posted by Therya

The [Glyph of Fire Elemental Totem] only applies to the Fire Elemental so I am not counting Earth Elementals uptime in my calculations. In a 6 min fight by dropping the unglyphed Fire Elemental in 0min mark and 5min mark then you get ideally ( although that might not be the best for throughput) 120sec uptime.

Makes sense, but you wouldn't get 108 second uptime at 6-minutes with the glyph. You would just be able to cast the 3rd Fire Ele at the 6-min mark, so a 7-minute fight would yield the 108-second uptime.

BigNeptune · 10/17/12, 12:29 AM

Just curious for anyone else who is doing Heroic Gara'jal, I am very unsure of how the Spirit Realm buff works in correlation to our healing. Our Monk when he enters can manage to boost our DPS up to about 24% and I can only manage about 16% using a conjunction of Tidal Waves/Healing Surge and Ascendance on occasion whilst trying a Glyphed and Unglyphed Riptide on all three of us. Is the amount of damage boosts they gain from total amount of healing or how big of a heal you are hitting them last with?

I am unsure without CD's if I can pump out any higher heals on them.

• Therya · 10/17/12, 1:14 AM

Is the amount of damage boosts they gain from total amount of healing or how big of a heal you are hitting them last with?

At Spiritual Innervation we can find exactly what buff each class gains. If the fight is designed with the assumption that the healers will enter the spirit world at least once thus regenerating their mana pool then spirit is greatly devalued for this specific fight.
There are 4 possibilities, that i can see regarding the mechanic around how DPS gain their buff stacks.
1. DPS gains more stacks the more powerful the healing spells hit them. If this is the case then we will need to run with a low spirit / high throughput spec to sustain high HPS.
2. DPS gains more stacks the more spells are applied to them numerically. This suggests that regardless how efficient your spells are what matters is how many you can throw before you need to leave the spirit world. High haste/crit spec would benefit more.
3. DPS gains more stacks the bigger the next heal is on your target while the smaller the heal will increase its duration. So theoretically you need to alternate ( or let crit decide that for you ) the intensity of your heals between smaller and bigger one. This would work well with any spec.
4. DPS gains stacks numerically following the rule 2 stacks for a cast-time heal / 1 stack for an instant heal.
There is also the question whether individual hot tics count towards these numbers. We should consider the answer could be a combination of 2 the suggestions above.

BigNeptune · 10/17/12, 10:32 PM

After many pulls so far tonight I've figured out what seemed to me to be the efficient way to give out stacks on Heroic Garaj. Having tried Conductivity, Healing Tide, Ascendance, Healing Rain, etc while down in the Spirit Realm it seems that our HoT's refresh the tick of the buff and perhaps help add additional stacks as well as single target heals.

I've heard people saying Healing Tide -does- work but it does not for me, it neither refreshed the stack or added to it. The maximum amount of stacks I have been able to push has been keeping everyone with Riptide and spamming Healing Surge on both of them like crazy. I've made both DPS hit 22 with Riptide and HS Spam, whereas only one would get to 20 and the other 14/15/16 without any Riptide's rolling.

Fluflis · 10/18/12, 12:31 AM

I was trying to find around the net what is supposed to be a good way to handle healing spells with Ascendance assuming a situation like Arcane Velocity in Feng HC encounter. I'm guessing having Healing Rain down and 3 riptides (if unglyphed) beforehand would be required. But I can't figure out if it's better to just Chain Heal or Healing Surge/Riptide for Tidal (I have around 19% crit raid buffed) or Chain Heal/Healing Surge. I know some of the options are more mana intense than others but it would be useful for the thread to have some info about that matter at least HPS-wise.

• Therya · 10/20/12, 9:30 PM

An update on HC Garaj'al. It seems that indeed HoTs refresh the timer whereas bigger spells (either GHW or HS ) will add stacks. It mainly has to do however with how big the spells throughput is compared to the previous one, so knowing your targets and applying riptides on them before entering the realm seems the way to go.

On the discussion about Ascendance. Everything depends on the fight, the situation you find yourself in and your healing assignment. Like it was mentioned some options will require more mana but the decision between HPS and HPM is one tough choice healers always have been faced with. The most valuable information that restos can take is that Ascendance is dynamically snapshotting your stats meaning it dynamically changes depending on your stats and is affecting every healing spell in the same way as well. Pre-casting or pre-hoting is therefore recommended.

Some options on spells and on the question of what spell to use there already exists a very good analysis at #15

I will bring up the table that interests us below :

Spell	Buff	HPM 0% Crit	HPM 0% Crit + 2PC Bonus	HPM 10% Crit	HPM 10% Crit + 2PC Bonus	HPM 20% Crit	HPM 20% Crit + 2PC Bonus	HPS 0% Crit	HPS 10% Crit	HPS 20% Crit
GHW	No TW	3.183	3.537	3.934	4.371	4.776	5.307	23568	27528	31485
	TW	3.183	3.537	3.934	4.371	4.776	5.307	33581	39223	44861

HS	No TW	2.058	2.058	2.468	2.468	2.899	2.899	32333	37765	43197
	TW	3.355	3.355	3.837	3.837	4.348	4.348	48628	54061	59492

I don't yet have an analysis on Riptide VS Chain heal HPS VS HPM however since Ascendance only lasts for 15sec I personally would prefer bringing up TW by using Riptide rather than casting a long CH. I will put this on my ToDo list if anyone would like to help with that I will welcome any numbers.

Judging from the table above we can see what spell to use and in what situation between our "heavy hitting" options. (Assuming we have already layered down HR and pre casted Riptides appropriately). Depending on how much efficient we want to be with our mana or how much more throughput we want to bring to the table GHW (above 10%crit) is always going to be our most efficient choice whereas HS our best throughput choice. Notice however the change between our spells being buffed with TW or not. While the best throughput will always occur when TW is up, GHW with TW and HS without TW HPS is almost the same. In a twisted way we can say that HPS wise it will be the same if we chain cast HS without TW as if casting RT-GHW-GHW-RT-GHW-GHW etc.
Again there is no "best" way to use Ascendance. What is best will always be dictated by the circumstances that the fight finds you in and what you choose to do with your efficiency VS your throughput. In a world where mana wasn't an issue chaincasting HS either with TW or without would probably be the most viable option. RT-HW-HW would always be your most efficient one.

Fluflis · 10/25/12, 11:06 AM

Although I saw that table you reposted (and thanks for the answer), it was just not complete on the Ascendance part. Maybe my question was poorly asked but what I basically meant is if I had all the mana of the world and heals weren't going to be overheals, what would produce the most HPS in these 15seconds. I know it depends on situation and that it might not be the most practical thing to do, at least on this tier. But knowing the high/low extreme (which is mostly theoritical) of a situation is useful in the meaning that you can adjust between - depending on the situation as you mentioned (which is player's judgement).

Maybe you need to push healing wtih max throughput with Ascendance, maybe you need to just support the rest of healers or maybe you know you aren't using it within next 3 minutes, so you cast it for mana conserve reasons. But it needs to know how to handle each type of usage. Since the most that troubled me was first case, I thought I could ask here. I don't know how to calculate that unfortunately (else I would post my calculations) and I believe it would be of some use in this thread.

I'm not going to bring that matter again, since I understand the thread is not all mine ofc course.

Ronark · 10/25/12, 2:00 PM

On the topic of Ascendance, can the additional healing crit and, if so, proc Resurgence? Or is the amount simply based on the initial heal?

Has it also been determined to have an AE heal cap (6 people)? I run with a 10 man guild so it hardly affects me either way when Offspec healing, but it is important for 25 man guilds.

It should also be mentioned that Spiritual Innervation - Spell - World of Warcraft is the buff recieved by the DPS/Tanks in the Spirit Realm.

• Therya · 10/26/12, 7:02 AM

I don't know if the additional healing crit will proc Resurgence I will put it on my ToDo list.

Not sure if Ascendance has a cap, however all AoE spells are supposed to cap at 6 but the way Ascendance works is by distributing the heals rather than healing separately. So I would presume without testing that it works as the green crystal at Ultraxion and doesn't have a cap.

Healers also receive Spiritual Innervation, which stacks exactly the way Spiritual Innervation stacks for DPS. What it does for healers is increase mana regeneration by increasing our spirit. Basically you come out of the spirit realm with full mana, and depending on your buff's duration for full mana until it fades.

Ronark · 10/26/12, 10:52 AM

Correct, Blizzard seems to have scratched the idea of class specific resources (Chi, embers, holy power etc).

Judgejoebrwn · 10/26/12, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by Fluflis

I was trying to find around the net what is supposed to be a good way to handle healing spells with Ascendance assuming a situation like Arcane Velocity in Feng HC encounter. I'm guessing having Healing Rain down and 3 riptides (if unglyphed) beforehand would be required. But I can't figure out if it's better to just Chain Heal or Healing Surge/Riptide for Tidal (I have around 19% crit raid buffed) or Chain Heal/Healing Surge. I know some of the options are more mana intense than others but it would be useful for the thread to have some info about that matter at least HPS-wise.

I'm starting a spreadsheet to figure this out. One question I have is: when Ascendance is used, do already-active healing spells apply? I would assume so, but this would need clarified for sure.

Judgejoebrwn · 10/27/12, 1:16 AM

Originally Posted by Ronark

On the topic of Ascendance, can the additional healing crit and, if so, proc Resurgence? Or is the amount simply based on the initial heal?

Has it also been determined to have an AE heal cap (6 people)? I run with a 10 man guild so it hardly affects me either way when Offspec healing, but it is important for 25 man guilds.

It should also be mentioned that Spiritual Innervation - Spell - World of Warcraft is the buff recieved by the DPS/Tanks in the Spirit Realm.

Brief testing (3 uses, ~60 procs) indicates that Restorative Mists from Ascendance does NOT crit and therefore will not proc Resurgence.

Not sure on the AE heal cap, though.

Fluflis · 10/27/12, 3:19 AM

Originally Posted by Judgejoebrwn

I'm starting a spreadsheet to figure this out. One question I have is: when Ascendance is used, do already-active healing spells apply? I would assume so, but this would need clarified for sure.

Yes, if you have healing rain down + a riptide on you and you press ascendance without doing any aditional heals you receive the duplicate of those 2. Also it works with Earthliving ticks, Earth Shield, Ancestral Healing (in my log Restorative mists did a sum of Healing Surge crit plus the Ancestral Healing portion). It doesn't work for totem healing (HST and HT), it's only from heals cast by the shaman. That's what I have tested up till now at least.

Kirtar88 · 10/27/12, 6:18 PM

I just posted two comments on Maths of Pandaria: Healer Haste Breakpoint Cards - Blogs - Totem Spot showing that the calculated haste breakpoints for healing tide most likely are incorrect. Can anyone confirm my observation there?

I'm discussing this with Binkenstein right now. You probably want to doublecheck his Healing Tide breakpoints afterwards for your compendium.

• Therya · 10/27/12, 7:12 PM

Originally Posted by Kirtar88

I just posted two comments on Maths of Pandaria: Healer Haste Breakpoint Cards - Blogs - Totem Spot showing that the calculated haste breakpoints for healing tide most likely are incorrect. Can anyone confirm my observation there?

I'm discussing this with Binkenstein right now. You probably want to doublecheck his Healing Tide breakpoints afterwards for your compendium.

I just tested them myself after talking to him. At 9.99% ( I couldn't get to 9.98%) I got 6+1 ticks and at 30% I got 7+1 ticks. What numbers did you get?