[Resto] It's Raining Heals 5.3 - Page 7

Fieldcrest · 12/06/12, 12:13 PM

Did a quick Riptide/UE test when servers came back up. I cast on myself at 100% health, took off my trinkets and changed to a weapon that was unenchanted to void having any procs interfere with the numbers. (I cleaned up the log format a little for clarity.)

Riptide without Unleash Elements.

12/6 11:13:32.574 SPELL_HEAL "Riptide" 12424,0,nil
12/6 11:13:32.574 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED "Riptide" BUFF
12/6 11:13:32.574 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS "Riptide"
12/6 11:13:35.085 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 5865,0,nil
12/6 11:13:37.590 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 5865,0,nil
12/6 11:13:40.149 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 5865,0,nil
12/6 11:13:42.575 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 5865,0,nil
12/6 11:13:45.161 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 5865,0,nil
12/6 11:13:47.682 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 5865,0,nil
12/6 11:13:50.264 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 5865,0,nil
12/6 11:13:50.264 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED "Riptide" BUFF

Riptide with Unleash Elements, while spec'd into Unleashed Fury.

12/6 11:13:55.566 SPELL_HEAL "Unleash Life" 21291,0,nil (crit)
12/6 11:13:55.566 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED "Unleash Life" BUFF
12/6 11:13:55.570 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS "Unleash Elements"
12/6 11:13:55.693 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED "Unleashed Fury" BUFF
12/6 11:14:00.471 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED "Unleashed Fury" BUFF
12/6 11:14:00.471 SPELL_HEAL "Riptide" 24225,0,nil
12/6 11:14:00.471 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED "Riptide" BUFF
12/6 11:14:00.471 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS "Riptide"
12/6 11:14:00.471 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED "Unleash Life" BUFF
12/6 11:14:03.034 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 7625,0,nil
12/6 11:14:05.539 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 7624,0,nil
12/6 11:14:07.964 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 15707,0,nil (crit)
12/6 11:14:10.566 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 7624,0,nil
12/6 11:14:13.083 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 7624,0,nil
12/6 11:14:15.647 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 7625,0,nil
12/6 11:14:18.052 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 7625,0,nil
12/6 11:14:18.052 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED "Riptide" BUFF

Riptide with Unleash Elements, not spec'd into Unleashed Fury.

12/6 11:17:58.463 SPELL_HEAL "Unleash Life" 10532,0,nil
12/6 11:17:58.463 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED "Unleash Life" BUFF
12/6 11:17:58.463 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS "Unleash Elements"
12/6 11:18:01.243 SPELL_HEAL"Riptide " 16150,0,nil
12/6 11:18:01.243 SPELL_AURA_APPLIED "Riptide" BUFF
12/6 11:18:01.243 SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS "Riptide"
12/6 11:18:01.243 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED "Unleash Life" BUFF
12/6 11:18:03.774 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 7624,0,nil
12/6 11:18:06.348 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 7624,0,nil
12/6 11:18:08.817 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 15706,0,nil (crit)
12/6 11:18:11.343 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 7624,0,nil
12/6 11:18:13.821 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 7624,0,nil
12/6 11:18:16.366 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 7624,0,nil
12/6 11:18:18.881 SPELL_PERIODIC_HEAL "Riptide" 7625,0,nil
12/6 11:18:18.882 SPELL_AURA_REMOVED "Riptide" BUFF

As Comox pointed out, Unleashed Fury does not effect the HoT portion of Riptide. Only the initial Direct Heal.

I also agree that Primal Elementalist is the better talent choice in this tier. If you're diligent using your Elemental totems and keeping Reinforce or Empower up, you usually keep a ~30% up-time on the 10% healing increase.

• Therya · 12/06/12, 1:09 PM

I tested this myself ingame too it seems indeed that at some point after Beta RT initial heal does not benefit from Unleash Fury. UF will still be a better choice conditionally for example when in tank duty or when healing a spread out 10man raid but with this change it does lose some of its value. I will update the Procs table shortly.

Hamsda · 12/07/12, 8:42 AM

Hi,
I am not playing a resto shaman myself but I follow this interesting topic pretty closely and I would like to add a possible explanation for the strange behaviour of the HTT:
During cataclysm Divine Hymn and Tranquility from Holy Priests and Resto Druids where gaining additional ticks with certain haste levels just like any other dot/hot. Therefore these spells were hugely powerful during high haste buffs (bloodlust, sinestra encounter and also sinestra trinket) and Blizzard "fixed" this behaviour with MoP. The channel time of the spells is still reduced but they wont gain additional ticks, just become shorter and shorter.
Since these two spells and the HTT are nearly identical (except for the fact that shamans can still cast during HTT which makes it a bit more powerful already) I can't imagine that HTT would benefit from haste by gaining additional ticks.
This is obviously only an assumption but it would explain the somewhat vague/nondefinitive statements I have read from Blizz regarding the HTT: maybe the additional ticks are just a bug.

I hope this doesn't derail the discussion, the thought of the comparison with DH/Tranq and Blizzards fix just occured to me and I wanted to let you guys know it.

zloyMH · 12/07/12, 10:14 AM

As was mentioned two days ago in Trinkets section: Interaction with MTT and spirit from trinkets procs was not tested for MoP.
I was disappointed that the spirit from the procs/uses is not scaled by MTT, and as experimenter I couldn't not check it for sure.

In my tests I just used numbers from character window. Numbers were taken without Water Shield buff and not in combat.

	Spirit	Normal mp5	Fight mp5
Bare	8257	15320	10660
With [Relic of Chi Ji]	11284	18737	12368
With [Spirits of the Sun]	14378	22229	14114
With [Scroll of Revered Ancestors]	11852	19378	12689
-	-	-	-
Bare + MTT	24771	33960	19980
With [Relic of Chi Ji] + MTT	27798	37377	21688
With [Spirits of the Sun] + MTT	30892	40869	23434
With [Scroll of Revered Ancestors] + MTT	28366	38018	22009

Quick look shows that ratios of (spirit amount with procs/uses + MTT) to (spirit amount with procs/uses but without MTT) are significantly lower than 3.

	Spirit ratio
Bare + MTT / Bare	3
+[Relic of Chi Ji] + MTT / +[Relic of Chi Ji]	2,46
+[Spirits of the Sun] + MTT / +[Spirits of the Sun]	2,15
+[Scroll of Revered Ancestors] + MTT / +[Scroll of Revered Ancestors]	2,39

and differences (Bare + proc/use + MTT) and (Bare + MTT) are exactly equival to the spirit amount from trinket proc/use value.

Trinket	(Bare + proc/use + MTT) - (Bare + MTT)	Wowhead info
[Relic of Chi Ji]	3027	3027
[Spirits of the Sun]	6121	6121
[Scroll of Revered Ancestors]	3595	3595

Same results for tests with Flask of Falling Leaves (+Alchemy)

← Click Here

TL;DR As it was supposed: Spirit from procs/uses of these trinkets is not scaled by MTT in MoP.

• Therya · 12/07/12, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Hamsda

During cataclysm Divine Hymn and Tranquility from Holy Priests and Resto Druids were gaining additional ticks with certain haste levels just like any other dot/hot. Therefore these spells were hugely powerful during high haste buffs (bloodlust, sinestra encounter and also sinestra trinket) and Blizzard "fixed" this behavior with MoP. The channel time of the spells is still reduced but they wont gain additional ticks, just become shorter and shorter.
This is obviously only an assumption but it would explain the somewhat vague/nondefinitive statements I have read from Blizz regarding the HTT: maybe the additional ticks are just a bug.

This could be a very valid explanation it never occurred to me either, if it plays out its a good catch. I would like an official explanation however, I am hopeful we might get one soon.

Strêtch · 12/07/12, 2:21 PM

Originally Posted by zloyMH

As was mentioned two days ago in Trinkets section: Interaction with MTT and spirit from trinkets procs was not tested for MoP.

TL;DR As it was supposed: Spirit from procs/uses of these trinkets is not scaled by MTT in MoP.

The tool tip states that MTT does not scale with procs/on use trinkets in MOP.

• Therya · 12/07/12, 5:10 PM

Originally Posted by Strêtch

The tool tip states that MTT does not scale with procs/on use trinkets in MOP.

While this is true, the information on tooltips are often not updated alongside the spells themselves. It is known that tooltips require a client side code change, and are often low priority, while changes to spells and abilities happen instantaneously. There are infamous examples of tooltips not being updated for months on end. For example Unleash Life spell would also affect Healing Rain while the tooltip said it would only affect direct spells. While many wondered if this was a bug Ghostcrawler himself clarified that it was intended but it got added in the tooltip months later. Specifically trinkets are known to not always follow tooltips and notoriously many other spells too. To that end we are trying to always test and report findings as to make the guide as accurate as possible. If there are changes or fixes the guide will always be updated to reflect on them.

Binkenstein · 12/10/12, 3:47 PM

Originally Posted by Therya

This could be a very valid explanation it never occurred to me either, if it plays out its a good catch. I would like an official explanation however, I am hopeful we might get one soon.

Going by this post in one of the Beta TC threads, HTT is affected by haste.

Youneskaboul · 12/16/12, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Hamsda

I hope this doesn't derail the discussion, the thought of the comparison with DH/Tranq and Blizzards fix just occured to me and I wanted to let you guys know it.

Tranquility does, according to Earen/Hamlet's findings, have reliable break points.

• Therya · 12/16/12, 6:56 PM

Originally Posted by Youneskaboul

Tranquility does, according to Earen/Hamlet's findings, have reliable break points.

I would rather have a definite answer from Blizzard about this, everything else is just speculation. What is certain is that HTT and HST do not behave like we believe they are supposed to. We will have to wait and see , for now our findings will help us through.

Trûst · 12/25/12, 5:52 PM

Therya, Binkenstein and everyone else, thank you very much for a great forum. This forum substantially helped me improve my raid healing.

Originally Posted by Therya

= 30| Windwalk Totem |

Situational

| Probably the most valuable talent for this tier grants your raid a jail free card when it comes to moving impairing effects should they occur. Note that effects will wear off whenever anyone in the raid steps out of range.
|||

There is a trash mob (sorry forgot the mobs name) in MSV that gives the raid a stacking debuff that causes petrify when it reaches 10. This totem, when dropped at any amount will "cleanse" the raid of that stacking debuff regardless if you were to suffer the 10 stack petrify while it was up or not. I felt that it should be speciffically mentioned because I was unaware of this function until recently, I thought it only removed moving impairing effects or prevented the occurance of these effects.

On a side note, once my guild starts raiding again, I will be testing this out on the Stone Guards Petrify ability, mostly for an FYI/9-11 kind of situation. I think this will work because it worked when I used "tigers lust" on my monk, however more testing is required as it may have been a fluke.

• Therya · 12/30/12, 5:40 AM

Petrification is a boss mechanic that cannot be dispelled in The Stone Guard boss fight since it is not really a debuff but a mechanic that uses a resource special bar that fills up to 100. Windwalk Totem can however be used to nullify the slowing effect from Cobalt Mines and it's especially useful during Cobalt Overloads.

The debuff that Windwalk Totem can remove is called Flesh to Stone and it is applied by Mogu'shan Secret-Keepers located in between Elegon and Will of the Emperor.

Morpheuspt · 01/05/13, 4:01 AM

the first mobs after you enter msv also put a stacking slow on you, that if it hits X (can't remember, really) it petrifies you.
However, windwalk does not work on this debuff, tried it yesterday!
Great topic.

• Therya · 01/10/13, 4:43 AM

Some calcs on HPS and HPM for all our spells, mastery is not included since it scales with HP and while it will make a difference on the numbers it won't make any difference in the comparisons which is what is of interest in this spreadsheet.

Therya - HPS/HPM 2pc and 4pc bonus included 5.1

Our new 2pc and 4pc bonuses for 5.2 do not directly affect HPM/HPS of our casting spells.

Shaman T15 Restoration 2P Bonus - Your Healing Stream Totem now heals an additional target for 50% 25% of its normal amount.

This is a straight up bonus on our HST throughput and a very strong one given the fact that HST provides with the least overhealing of all our spells due to its smart healing. Keep in mind that with this pc bonus there is no excuse not to drop HST on CD. 5.2 brings 2 new changes also one being that Elemental Mastery gets a buff and its CD is reduced to 60sec and Stone Bulwark Totem now absorbs 25% more damage. With this change we will see more and more usage of SBT. We still don't know how strict our mana will be in 5.2 however if we are to use HST on CD then Glyph of Totemic Recall will prove to be a great boon as it was in 5.0 and 5.1. Below there is a rotation for handling all our CDs.

1.Drop HST ( 15sec dur, 30sec CD)
2.Recall ( at 15sec. Remember you can queue the recall while casting any other spell. Even if the totem gets destroyed you still get its mana back )
3.Drop SBT ( 30 sec dur, 60sec CD)
4.Drop HST
5.Recall both HST+SBT (Thus getting both their mana returns in full)
6.Window for MTT or HTT or PE
7.Drop HST (Restart from step 1)

Shaman T15 Restoration 4P Bonus - Your Ancestral Awakening now has a 20% chance to trigger on non-critical heals.

This bonus is great in paper but it does devalue slightly our crit and it raises a question of how much of its healing will lead to overheal rather than boost our throughput. With EM now on 60sec CD ( a change that will make this talent align with every other CD we have ) haste is also slightly devalued. Notice both these changes do not mean we should forget about crit or haste. However we might see some changes in priorities in reforging. More calcs to come.
Something that needs to be clarified however is whether it will proc from direct heals only or all of our heals including hots. If hots are included, ie Healing Rain ticks, Riptide ticks, then AA contribution will rise significantly.

swift_ · 01/18/13, 12:55 PM

Minor update to the original post: Ancestral Guidance has been hotfixed and will no longer procc off Restorative Mists, so there's no longer an advantage to stacking the two cooldowns.