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11/13/07, 4:36 PM
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#326
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Soda Popinski
Retired
Tauren Death Knight
No WoW Account
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I'd say with ZA gear you might have something like:
23% spell crit before talents/totems
930 spell damage
50 spell haste
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11/13/07, 5:07 PM
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#327
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Great Tiger
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I went with a semi low end and a semi high end I figure if you already have ZA gear you can't really be looking to upgrade all that much unless you run BT. Feel free to import a copy of my spread sheet for your own purposes if you want truely customized stat conversions. The sheet was made for my own use though not for any type of public guide to anything.
Note: These conversions are only for LB. No lag time is assumed.
Kara /heroics level Stats:
spell dmg: 800 base +55 relic +101 totem = 956 total spell dmg
crit: 21.02% + 5 talent +6talent +3 totem = 35.02 total crit%
hit: 4.04% (51 rating) + 6 talent + 3 talent + 3 totem = 16.04
1 crit % -> 12.70dmg : 22.1 crit rating = 12.70 dmg : 1 crit rating = .574dmg
1 Haste % -> 17.15dmg : 15.75 haste rating = 17.15 dmg : 1 haste rating = 1.08dmg
Mid-High level stats:
spell dmg: 1050 base +85relic +101 totem = 1236
crit : 23.01% +5 +6 +3 = 37.01%
haste: 53 rating = 3.37%
hit: 4.04% (51 rating) + 6 talent + 3 talent + 3 totem = 16.04
1 crit % -> 14.56spell dmg : 22.1 crit rating = 14.56 spell dmg : 1 crit rating = .6588 spell dmg
1 Haste % -> 19.30spell dmg : 15.75 haste rating = 19.30 spell dmg : 1 haste rating = 1.225 spell dmg
Last edited by Daidalos : 11/13/07 at 5:17 PM.
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11/13/07, 5:15 PM
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#328
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Soda Popinski
Retired
Tauren Death Knight
No WoW Account
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You should really figure in raid buffs I think Daid. I know you have totems down there, but I think 42+23+80 from consumables needs to be there, which will change the numbers. And if you can stick in a middle number. 800 to 1050 is quite the difference. Thanks for the number crunching though. 
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11/13/07, 5:19 PM
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#329
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Kasi
You should really figure in raid buffs I think Daid. I know you have totems down there, but I think 42+23+80 from consumables needs to be there, which will change the numbers. And if you can stick in a middle number. 800 to 1050 is quite the difference. Thanks for the number crunching though. 
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I put it as MID-HIGH end cause if you're more around 900 and add in the extra flasks n such you can just pretend you have a 1050 base :-p.
I'll make a super high end even though at this level you don't have much choice in gear...
High level stats:
spell dmg: 1200 base +85relic +101 totem +80 flask +23 food + 43 oil = 1531
crit : 23.01% +5 +6 +3 = 37.01%
haste: 53 rating = 3.37%
hit: 4.04% (51 rating) + 6 talent + 3 talent + 3 totem = 16.04
1crit % -> 16.72 spell dmg
1Haste % -> 22.16 spell dmg
Last edited by Daidalos : 11/13/07 at 5:25 PM.
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11/13/07, 5:41 PM
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#330
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mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
Draenei Shaman
Khaz'goroth
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Originally Posted by Daidalos
So what geared stats would you like to see conversions for? My view is rather skewed since my guild has been in BT for a long time and ele is my offset so i'm not really sure what people want to see.
950 base dmg + 55 from relic + 101 from totem
0 haste rating
20% crit before talents (39 after talents and totem)
?
I'm assuming bink will put this info in the OPs somewhere unless he has his own now so I wanted to have conversionis as close to what most people have or at least what most people have who want to see the conversions as possible.
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Yeah, once you get some stats together I'll ninja them (I'm a little busy at the moment, otherwise I'd get my own done)

Originally Posted by Daidalos
I went with a semi low end and a semi high end I figure if you already have ZA gear you can't really be looking to upgrade all that much unless you run BT. Feel free to import a copy of my spread sheet for your own purposes if you want truely customized stat conversions. The sheet was made for my own use though not for any type of public guide to anything.
Note: These conversions are only for LB. No lag time is assumed.
Kara /heroics level Stats:
spell dmg: 800 base +55 relic +101 totem = 956 total spell dmg
crit: 21.02% + 5 talent +6talent +3 totem = 35.02 total crit%
hit: 4.04% (51 rating) + 6 talent + 3 talent + 3 totem = 16.04
1 crit % -> 12.70dmg : 22.1 crit rating = 12.70 dmg : 1 crit rating = .574dmg
1 Haste % -> 17.15dmg : 15.75 haste rating = 17.15 dmg : 1 haste rating = 1.08dmg
Mid-High level stats:
spell dmg: 1050 base +85relic +101 totem = 1236
crit : 23.01% +5 +6 +3 = 37.01%
haste: 53 rating = 3.37%
hit: 4.04% (51 rating) + 6 talent + 3 talent + 3 totem = 16.04
1 crit % -> 14.56spell dmg : 22.1 crit rating = 14.56 spell dmg : 1 crit rating = .6588 spell dmg
1 Haste % -> 19.30spell dmg : 15.75 haste rating = 19.30 spell dmg : 1 haste rating = 1.225 spell dmg
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I assume these are your stat conversions? I'll edit them in sometime soon.
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11/13/07, 5:52 PM
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#331
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Binkenstein
Yeah, once you get some stats together I'll ninja them (I'm a little busy at the moment, otherwise I'd get my own done)
I assume these are your stat conversions? I'll edit them in sometime soon.
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Yeah I posted alot so if you only want to use some of this thats fine or if you have a certain range you feel really needs to go in it takes like 30 secs to enter new stats and look at the conversion so its not a big deal. I'm not sure if people really need the break down of rating / dmg and so forth and break down for the different level of stats but I'm never sure at what point just keeping it simple is better than huge walls of text :-0
If anyone wants to double check my numbers feel free. I updated it earlier today and the numbers look right but I haven't done any testing in game for verification or anything. Also I know my LB12 avg is a little low it should be 611ish base but eh should not really affect this. Here is some additional info so you can look at dps numbers n such and verify my numbers look right.
From my high end example:
spell dmg: 1200 base +85relic +101 totem +80 flask +23 food + 43 oil = 1531
crit : 23.01% +5 +6 +3 = 37.01%
haste: 53 rating = 3.37%
hit: 4.04% (51 rating) + 6 talent + 3 talent + 3 totem = 16.04
avg hit avg dmg casttime dps
LB 12 1890.90 2849.77 1.935 1472.83
hit dmg avg dmg Cast Time dps
1 crit % 16.72 1890.90 2870.57 1.935 1483.58
16.72 dmg 1.00crit 1904.71 2870.58 1.935 1483.59
0.756 Haste % 16.75 1890.90 2849.77 1.921 1483.61
Last edited by Daidalos : 11/13/07 at 6:04 PM.
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11/13/07, 10:00 PM
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#332
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mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
Draenei Shaman
Khaz'goroth
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I edited the quotes to make them easier to read (I hope) & put in some references. Hopefully that looks good.
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11/13/07, 10:05 PM
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#333
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Soda Popinski
Retired
Tauren Death Knight
No WoW Account
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We should try to get some WWS up of raid dps though with the changes and see what happened. Not raiding tonight so I can't really tell. Am raiding tomorrow and hopefully the WWS will give me some insight to if anything changes. Going to keep the exact same gear for now as well.
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11/14/07, 12:36 AM
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#334
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mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
Draenei Shaman
Khaz'goroth
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New version of ShamStats finished.
Last edited by Binkenstein : 11/14/07 at 5:28 PM.
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11/14/07, 1:01 AM
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#335
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Soda Popinski
Retired
Tauren Death Knight
No WoW Account
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Also having some funky problems with lag, at least if heroic ramparts tonight was an indicator. Was going at 10-14 fps in there, which annoyed me. Not sure if the issue was on Blizzard's end or was because of mods or what. But it was really damn annoying. Also the new casting mechanism is taking a bit to get used to. Spamming it gets me tons of this spell is not ready messages, so I need to either not spam or suppress that message somehow.
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11/14/07, 4:04 AM
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#336
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Glass Joe
Draenei Shaman
Lightbringer (EU)
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How is Omen working? Has a way to filter out Lightning Overload from Lightning Bolts been implemented? Or do I just need to assume I'm around 10% behind where Omen says I am?
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11/14/07, 4:42 AM
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#337
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The things I have seen with your eyes
Mork
Orc Shaman
No WoW Account
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Math is no forte of mine, but here's a little feedback after a day of instances, solo grinding, and pvp regarding mana usage.
The new Water Shield is of course very nice, and the combo of it ticking off every minute plus an improved Clearcasting and an extra 25/5 regen leaves you feeling much less mana starved in a raid or instance when there's not a shadowpriest around. I've done no super long raid boss fight, but chugging mana pots does not seem necessary any more.
In pvp and solo grinding, however, the abilities truly shine. With a respectable crit rate Clearcasting is up more often than not, especially when more than one target is present (not to mention a 20% LO chance). Enemies actually triggering Water Shield combined with the Clearcasts, and you'll find yourself finishing BG skirmishes with 60% mana where you previously would be run dry. It sounds like an exaggeration, but that's about where I'd end up after each fight where I'd normally be looking for a combat mana pot. It's quite a welcome change.
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11/14/07, 5:20 AM
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#338
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Glass Joe
Draenei Shaman
Hellscream
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Here's something I'm curious about. I just picked up the new Skycall Totem and the Hauberk of the Furious Elements. I've been using Quag's Eye as my 2nd Trinket to go with my TLC, but now I'm wondering if having the haste from the chest + the Eye + the Totem, which is going to put my LB under 1.5 second cast time I'm sure, is going to make the Eye less effective, and if I should drop it for my Shiffar's which I've got banked ATM.
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11/14/07, 5:23 AM
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#339
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Glass Joe
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I am still waiting for the EU servers to be up again but I will gladly post any valuable info on the new elemental pvp behaviour once season 3 has started and i had some time testing the changes on live servers.
But I already Changed my spec, going from 5/5 Unrelenting Storms & 2/5 Reverberation to
3/3 Elemental Warding, 3/3 Elemental Shields 1/5 Unrelenting Storms.
Mana efficiency should still be better as in 2.2 with this changes, but you gain a lot more pvp survivability.
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11/14/07, 6:13 AM
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#340
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Von Kaiser
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I did Najentus through Mother last night, and I really don't have any complaints. I have combat logs for half the fights, I was slacking and forgot to turn it on for a couple fights. Ive only got 2 pieces of haste, trash ring and flashfire. For the most part Ive been right where I was in 2.2 on the DM's, I should have WWS's up tonight after Illidan and Hyjal. The new meta is huge albeit its annoying exact 2 Blue Gem req.
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11/14/07, 11:29 AM
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#341
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Piston Honda
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Where does Intellect and MP5 fit into the new stat weighting values?
Also, to make sure I'm concluding the same thing as this thread: haste > damage > crit rating?
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11/14/07, 11:50 AM
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#342
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Gaguusi
It seems as though TLC was 'fixed' in the last PTR patch to reflect the tooltip description, and from the calculations I've seen so far (mostly done by mages) its effectiveness is decreased by about 30%, at which point I'd value the icon or quag's higher.
If anyone can confirm that TLC does indeed work like the tooltip, please do so. Thanks.
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I paid close attention to my Charges buff while doing ZA last night. I distinctly saw myself cast 2 LBs in a row that crit and I got charges. I was at 1 charge and when the 2nd one crit the LC fired off bolt. CL was also still giving multiple charges with crits at the same time.
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11/14/07, 11:59 AM
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#343
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Buanna
Where does Intellect and MP5 fit into the new stat weighting values?
Also, to make sure I'm concluding the same thing as this thread: haste > damage > crit rating?
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The numbers I posted were only for LB spam. Obviously CL gains no real benefit from haste so stacking haste over dmg seems a pretty bad idea.
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11/14/07, 12:18 PM
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#344
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Piston Honda
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I was only able to get logs for 1 Hyjal boss and the first 3 BT bosses, but overall the numbers do look promising.
Najentus 2.3
Najentus 2.2
Supremus 2.3
Supremus 2.2
Here are a few logs for comparison. Consumables used for raids are normally just Shattrah Flask + Oil. I haven't farmed for damage food in months.
I wasn't pushing it very much last night due to not knowing how accurate Omen was with the new patch. Once I get used to the added threat reduction I should be able to go all out much sooner and see a dps increase. I didn't want to make the raid after patch day any more difficult by pulling aggro.
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11/14/07, 12:28 PM
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#345
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Soda Popinski
Retired
Tauren Death Knight
No WoW Account
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Anyone figured a way to get rid of the annoying "this spell is not ready yet" when spamming the key for LB? I was trying this and it was pissing me off. Also for the new casting system, that is what we are supposed to do? Just spam our spell and not worry about timing it correct? Just a bit confused since in Ramparts last night it seemed to be a bit hiccupy at times, but that might have been because of this bongos lag issue people are talking about.
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11/14/07, 12:31 PM
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#346
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Don Flamenco
Troll Shaman
Al'Akir (EU)
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Originally Posted by Kasi
Anyone figured a way to get rid of the annoying "this spell is not ready yet" when spamming the key for LB? I was trying this and it was pissing me off. Also for the new casting system, that is what we are supposed to do? Just spam our spell and not worry about timing it correct? Just a bit confused since in Ramparts last night it seemed to be a bit hiccupy at times, but that might have been because of this bongos lag issue people are talking about.
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According to Slouken's posts about this, we are still supposed to time the casts as if we would use our old /stopcasting solutions. We just would not lose the current spell if we try to start a new one too early anymore.
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11/14/07, 12:37 PM
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#347
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Soda Popinski
Retired
Tauren Death Knight
No WoW Account
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Yeah that is what I started to figure out too by the end of my run. If I started spamming my spell when there was like a quarter of the cast left it would work and I would get a new spell off before my old one was supposed to be finished casting. Still would be nice to get rid of that message though.
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11/14/07, 12:37 PM
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#348
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Von Kaiser
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I just button mashed my Lightning Bolt key last night in ZA and noticed no casting lag at all.
On that point, I wish to give some anecdotal evidence:
1) ZA is an Elemental Shaman paradise, especially if grouped with a Protection Paladin as I was. Chain Lightning every 6 seconds really was excellent fun (and was insane DPS) just because LO seemed to proc every time (I'm assuming a 60% ish proc rate from 2 jumps). Combined with Fire Nova Totem, and running through the gauntlet to the eagle boss was just hysterical.
2) Water Shield really, really owns. From a WWS parse from last night, it restored as much mana over the entire night as improved mana spring totem. I didnt have a Shadow Priest, only Mana Tide from a fellow Resto Shaman, but I never even went below 50% mana on the bear boss, and was plenty of mana to cast Chain Lightning over and over again during the gauntlet event to eagle, as well as handling multiple scout pulls to Dragonhawk while normally casting Lightning Bolts (3/1 Rotation). Clearcasting was pretty much in a permanent on state.
3) Lightning Overload definately makes a difference. At one point, I even had 5 LO procs in a row, not only dealing huge damage, but not pulling aggro. Everyone in ZA with me was simply astounded at how often it proc'd now. To me, the proc rate definately seemed on par at 20%, or even more (although randomness could dictate that I was just lucky on procs).
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11/14/07, 12:55 PM
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#349
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mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
Draenei Shaman
Khaz'goroth
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Originally Posted by kingkaos
I was slacking and forgot to turn it on for a couple fights.
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Get LoggerHead. It's an ace addon that automatically turns on combatlogging.
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11/14/07, 1:13 PM
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#350
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Glass Joe
Orc Death Knight
Khaz Modan
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Originally Posted by Kasi
Anyone figured a way to get rid of the annoying "this spell is not ready yet" when spamming the key for LB? I was trying this and it was pissing me off. Also for the new casting system, that is what we are supposed to do? Just spam our spell and not worry about timing it correct? Just a bit confused since in Ramparts last night it seemed to be a bit hiccupy at times, but that might have been because of this bongos lag issue people are talking about.
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I am assuming you've turned off the audio portion of the "spell not ready" message, which I find far more annoying than the on-screen message. If not, it's in the audio-video interface. And if you figure out how to turn of the visual warning, please post... (may be in the config file)
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