People in the thread are saying lots of different things about this. Some say it's only adding 1%(total) up to 4 talent points and 2%(total) for the last talent point? It seems rather unsubstantiated at the moment. Have people noticed a drop in WWS Crit% since 2.3? My guilds WWS has my crit percent right around where it's supposed to be, 40%ish raid buffed.

It is a change planned for a future patch, so you probably won't see it in your live data WWS yet.

I worked on my sim a little today and got the basics up and running. I've been modeling the skycall totem the numbers but right but I can't gaurentee its bugfree. However, it's looking like skycall totem numbers are pretty strong.

With a pure LB spam and 0 latency between casts I got the following with my sim:
10 sec skycall buff.
15% chance to proc
0 cooldown
LO does not proc skycall

crit percent 40
total spell dmg for Lightning Bolt including relic 900
total spell haste 0
number of simulated seconds 600000
total dmg = 680390112
total LBs = 317460
total LOs = 63156
total num of skycall procs 47821
Percent chance for skycall proc 15.063630063630062
total casts with skycall buff 317460
average dps = 1133

wihtout skycall:
crit percent 40
total spell dmg for Lightning Bolt including relic 900
total spell haste 0
number of simulated seconds 600000
total dmg = 643394232
total LBs = 299999
total LOs = 59865
total casts with skycall buff 0
average dps = 1072

with 55 lightning bolt dmg relic:
crit percent40
total spell dmg for Lightning Bolt including relic955
total spell haste 0
number of simulated seconds 600000
total dmg = 664194944
total LBs = 299999
total LOs = 60073
total casts with skycall buff 0
average dps = 1106

with 85 dmg lightning bolt dmg relic:
crit percent 40
total spell dmg for Lightning Bolt including relic 985
Enter total spell haste 0
Enter number of simulated seconds 600000
total dmg = 676494479
total LBs = 299999
total LOs = 60321
total num of skycall procs 45005
total casts with skycall buff 0
average dps = 1127

I tried to do a higher end sim as well and after seeing the result just had to include it:
with skycall:
crit percent 40
total spell dmg for Lightning Bolt including relic 1200
total spell haste 0
Enter number of simulated seconds 600000
total dmg = 802262317
total LBs = 317460
total LOs = 63544
total num of skycall procs 47450
Percent chance for skycall proc 14.946764946764945
total casts with skycall buff 317458
average dps = 1337 (hehe no that wasn't planned but was kinda funny)

with gorefiend relic:
crit percent 40
total spell dmg for Lightning Bolt including relic 1285
total spell haste 0
number of simulated seconds 60000
total dmg = 79373487
total LBs = 29999
total LOs = 6072
total casts with skycall buff 0
average dps = 1322

I'd like to see a comparison of 3/4 LB, 1 CL with the skycall totem compared to the others as well. Just to see how haste being wasted on CL compares to the dmg you gain from CL/LB using the dmg totems.

From what I can tell, there seems to be a 66% "uptime" on the buff, although that probably includes LO induced procs as well.

In my sim LOs are not "casts" so it does not include that in the stats.

I am going on vacation so I won't be able to sim with CL LB rotation for a week or so.

Note the info in original post

I got distracted by all the shiney numbers.

In which case, I'm going to go with a 66% modifier on ShamStats

Continuing from the other thread, I'm posting numbers for LC:

We know average damage for TLC noncrit is 750. Assuming 40% crit Elemental Shaman, we get 847.5 average damage on release (since LC doesn't get talent boosted, that's 26% crit chance and 1125 average crit value). On 40% crit, we can expect one crit each 5 seconds, which means 15 sec per release. This leaves us to 847.5 / 15 = 56.5 dps. However, we also have to add the LO and charge cooldown. This is the only place 2.2 and 2.3 differ from eachother.

Here's the results:

2.2: 1.05 modifier for LO: 59,325 average dps

2.3: 1.2 modifier for LO, but also a release charge modifier. Since release charge is still being calculated, I calculated the cooldown impact where 2.3 would equal 2.2's dps:

(2.2 DPS / LO modifier) / average unmodified DPS = minimum percentage where LC still does the same dps as in 2.2
(59.325 / 1.2) / 56.5 = 0.875

In other words: if the proc cooldown reduces the dps under 87,5% (i.e., if more than 12.5% crits are wasted), then LC is worse than it was. If the proc cooldown leaves it above that, LC was boosted. My personal testing shows results around 92% (varying, of course, but that's the closest estimate I could get so far). With that percentage, the resultant averga dps is 62.375 or 3.05 dps increase for 40% crit shaman..

Disclaimer: this is just a working theory and should be tested by others.

EDIT: On Skycall: in theory, the trinket is very good. However, testing it in practice, I stick with Void (Teron hates me :/). Why because, quite frankly, there's so much going on in average raid that I always lose at least some of the charge, leaving the proc fairly crap, tbh. My honest opinion. That's why I tend to look at procs with reluctancy. Additionally, haste has the disadvantage of us being close to GCD, meaning any proc at the wrong time can mean a waste of it (imagine having haste gear, using Battle drums and suddenly getting Skycall too. Imagine getting Skycall while Heroism is active. Imagine getting Skycall at the same moment that you have to move. That's all wasted charges, all the while Void or Teron you can always count on that they'll provide steady damage all the time. While you'll also lose dps on moving, etc., you'll lose considerably less than with proc abilities). Imo, of course.

It scares me how Blizzard do their sums sometimes, it can be slightly errr... counter intuitive.

Does anyone else have an opinion on CSD, as the front page of this post is saying 203%, which is rather different to 209%.

I'm going to stick with the 203% value, mostly because it's the "worst case scenario", and the fact that it is still best meta in that case anyway. If the behaviour is indeed multiplicative rather than additive, then it's an extra bonus.

I think I missed how was the new, 'buffed' (0.794 if I get it right) co-efficient calculated... Could someone advise please?

By comparing the average lightning bolt damage in gear to the base damage.

Or well someone on this thread had this to say about the new coefficients:

Flame shock crits with the new meta are 209% (645-646 for 1349-1350) base damage. I'll get the testing for LB and CL done when i have time.

Elemental Warding giving 4/7/10 instead of 3/6/9 or 3,33/6,67/10 is a bug too?

And there used to be many other talents working this way as well, can't think of any right now, but...



Isn't the relative loss the same for procs as steady dmg increases? It's the same chance to proc when you are staying stationary as when you are moving. The proc adds a fixed percent of increased dmg with your gear. It can come whenever it want. Since it will still increase your dmg by the same percents, averaged over a longer time, the time for proc will be spread out evenly between stationary moments and moving moments. Or is my logic flawed somewhere?

Proc vs on-use, proc definately lose, but talking about a steady dmg increase (Void vs Skycall) seems it doesn't matter to me.



Another thing
Anyone kow if this affetcs our Skycall totem as well?

Each point of elemental warding give you +3%. You realise that this is stupid comparison? There was talents like CoT early in game, but at this point, its unique.


Why would it? Nerf on idol caused by resto druids using it for constant 220 healing with low rank moonfire spam.

Well, there's a point in what you say, but haste has an additional limit of being capped to a certain value. When a normal proc pops up, say, on bloodlust or when you used Drums of Battle on haste-heavy gear, you'll still get a boost, a pretty good one, too. But when Skycall procs, the proc will be wasted in such situation.

Thanks for running those numbers, back-of-envelope calculations are nice but raw numbers like that are much nicer For pure LB spam, it seems that Skycall is indeed the go. I calculated it as adding roughly double Totem of the Void's contribution to pure LB spam, and that seems fairly close.

I'll wait with some interest to see how the numbers shake out for a 3/1 and even a 4/1 cycle, though, as my calculations suggested that for a 4/1 cycle it was too close to call between skycall and totem of the void, and for a 3/1 totem of the void won. I didn't have modelling for a cycle where you "twisted" between skycall on lightning bolts and void for CL. I don't own a Skycall Totem yet- does the buff disappear if you switch totems while it's active?

I think the following trinket should be considered by elemental Shamans if it drops:
[Prism of Inner Calm]
I've been using it for some months and it helps a lot on those fights where threat is a problem.
It reduces threat by a 1000 after landing a critical hit. It will be useful on fights like the Void Reaver fight and the Kael'Thas fight and every trash fight. Mainly every fight where you need to burst damage on a target with a fresh threatlist or in situations where tanks get a threat knock back.

I have been doing some math regarding new items purchasable for Badges of Justice. Namely: [Hauberk of the Furious Elements] vs [Blessed Elunite Coverings], [Stormwrap] vs [Starfire Waistband] and [Vindicator's Mail Bracers].
I need 2 blue sockets due to incoming change of CSD (need at least 2 blue gems).
For a hit capped shaman, it seems that Netherstrike set is the second best choice.
Please could someone shed some light onto my calculations and maybe recheck them as I'm bit of a noob
I used Binkenstein's shamstats but changed hit rating to 1 (as hit gives no DEP when capped, right?). You can find my calculations in this spreadsheet: http:\\pollub.boo.pl\new_gear.xls

Thanks in advance!

The real question is in the bottom Paragraph so read that if you don't want an introduction.

First off I want to say thanks so much for this thread and I can't wait to put some of the things learned into practice. I just recently spec'd Elemental because a Pally(better geared Healer then me (he changed Guilds)) Prot Warrior, and myself decided to stay up all night doing Heroics. Let's just say 28 badges later I decided that I was once again in love w/ the Elemental spec. I've been Resto for some number of months due to the Guild dropping pretty low on Healers and me being the stand-up guy that I am spec'd the role. Enough about that crap onto my real quesion;

I find Elemental Raiding to be a little broing in fact w/ my 5 button mouse I really don't have much of a reason to even look at my computer more then a couple of seconds(to check mana and hit CD's) at a time. This is a little exagerated but I'm comparing it to my Fury Warrior and Healing. Am I Doing something wrong or is this really the way it's susposed to be played. I don't feel this way about anything other then BOSS Fights in Raids every other circumstance I love it!

Is the question here about casting rotations? All of that info is in the OP, along with the impact of different rotations on DPS and mana.

If this is an existential question about lightning bolt spam, well, you picked the wrong spec/class combo.

People often go "Ele dps is spam LB".

It isn't.

I've got the following (regularly used) buttons:

• 4 Totem buttons
• 2-3 LB macros (one just trinkets, one trinkets + staff target/use for kael, one spirtfire target for FLK)
• 2 CL buttons (one is a CL/EM/trinket macro)
• EM on it's own.
• Water & Lightning Shield
• Heroism/Bloodlust
• Healing Wave & Gift of the Naruu
• Purge
• Cure Disease/Poison.

So yeah, I'm not just a single button spam class