I'll go have a look at WoWWiki's co-efficient information to see how it should theoretically work.
Seems fairly accurate on most things.

[e]And now, after lunch, we have the following:

So going by that we'd be seeing 0.407 as the co-efficent, not the 0.386 we've observed.

So it appears that there are non-standard penalties for damage spells with other functions, which explains our 10% value.

Which yeah works fine for testing plain dps, however it doesn't really succeed in testing time to run oom since you will get far more clearcasting than normal. Then again if you are in T5 gear and with a SP these days, you can pretty much run that cycle indefinitely now with just a pot or 2.

Probably not the best way, but I /combatlog Dr. Boom tests with CL rotations, and then manually edit the log, removing the CL jumps, then use WWS to parse it.

Skyhoof, thanks for editing your post on the Shaman forums to include stat weight. I have been using your posts for gear upgrades for months, and wanted to tell you I appreciate it.


Bink, I downloaded your updated version of Stat Comp. I want to make sure i'm reading it right. On the haste tab, I mouse over the diamond where my spell haste and spell damage meet. That gives me the right amount of 1 spell haste = X spell damage right? I.E. I have around 1200 spell damage raid buffed/totem, and 37 haste. 37 haste is between 2 points, but it would roughly be 1 spell haste for me is 0.5 spell damage. So when comparing gear, if I gain 30 spell haste, as long as i'm not losing over 15 spell damage, its an improvment, correct?

Now, would I be able to "convert" that to spell crit? Using the Crit tab, at 1200 spell damage and 41% crit, 1% crit = 14.5 spell damage for me. So, is it safe to say that 30 Spell Haste = 15 Spell Damage is almost = 1% crit, therefor 1% crit is roughly equal to 30 spell haste?

Sorry, math isn't my strong suit. ><

Not an attempt to brag, but as far as mana goes, as long as I am in range of the spriest in my group, I usually have positive gains for mana while chain casting (excluding fights with mana drain components). If you don't regularly get lumped with one, however, that's another story entirely.

If you notice this weapon is not unique and is one handed there fore you could go 30/31/0 and dual wield these. This would allow you to spam high spell power LB using the following build:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Below you will see that dual wielding The Maelstrom's Fury per spec above increase DEP by 21 even using all the same gear, just swapping main hand and off hand and spec.

Below stats are per ShamStats071130:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Current 41/0/20 spec.
Stats % Inc Talents
Int 440 440
Dmg 987 986
Heal 857 857
Crit Rating 298 21.20% 35.20%
Hit Rating 50 3.96% 15.96%
Haste 139 8.83% 8.83%
mp5 37 63

Current Selection DEP HEP
Total 2165 1299
Race Tauren 91 49
Head Cyclone Faceguard 185 103 Karazhan
Neck Vindicator's Pendant of Conquest 85 54 PvP
Shoulders Cyclone Shoulderguards 105 70 Gruul
Back Brute Cloak of the Ogre-Magi 79 51 Gruul
Chest Hauberk of the Furious Elements 174 138 Heroic
Bracers Runed Spell-cuffs 88 77 Heroic
Gloves Soul-Eater's Handwraps 117 85 Magtheridon
Belt Netherstrike Belt 103 80 Craftable
Legs Cyclone Legguards 141 84 Gruul
Feet Hurricane Boots 109 77 Craft able
Ring Band of Crimson Fury 82 41 Quest
Ring Ring of Unrelenting Storms 87 11 Trash
Weapon Nathrezim Mindblade 314 257 Karazhan
Off Hand Merciless Gladiator's Barrier 61 48 PvP
Trinket Sextant of Unstable Currents 109 76 Fathomlord
Trinket The Lightning Capacitor 100 0 Illhoof
Totem Skycall Totem 107 0 Heroic
Teir 6 Elemental 4pc? No
Sets T4E 2pc 27 0
None 0 0
None 0 0
-------------------------------------------------------------
Duel wield 30/31/0 spec with dual “The Maelstrom's Fury” with +40 spell.
Stats % Inc Talents
Int 433 433
Dmg 1251 1251
Heal 1133 1133
Crit Rating 319 22.06% 28.06%
Hit Rating 50 3.96% 3.96%
Haste 126 7.99% 7.99%
mp5 37 46

Current Selection DEP HEP Zone/Type
Total 2186 1472
Race Tauren 81 51
Head Cyclone Faceguard 174 101 Karazhan
Neck Vindicator's Pendant of Conquest 77 51 PvP
Shoulders Cyclone Shoulderguards 93 64 Gruul
Back Brute Cloak of the Ogre-Magi 70 47 Gruul
Chest Hauberk of the Furious Elements 153 142 Heroic
Bracers Runed Spell-cuffs 76 80 Heroic
Gloves Soul-Eater's Handwraps 104 78 Magtheridon
Belt Netherstrike Belt 92 77 Craft able
Legs Cyclone Legguards 122 77 Gruul
Feet Hurricane Boots 97 73 Craft able
Ring Band of Crimson Fury 71 36 Quest
Ring Ring of Unrelenting Storms 77 12 Trash
Weapon The Maelstrom's Fury 313 256 Black Temple
Off Hand The Maelstrom's Fury 313 256 Black Temple
Trinket Sextant of Unstable Currents 98 69 Fathomlord
Trinket The Lightning Capacitor 73 0 Illhoof
Totem Skycall Totem 78 0 Heroic
Teir 6 Elemental 4pc? No
Sets T4E 2pc 23 0
None 0 0
None 0 0

P.S. I no it isn’t really a good idea to go duel wield. You do lose 12% hit, 7.14% crit, and 15% reductions to threat but gain 21 DEP and +265 damage from going to the duel wield build.

Heh, thanks.

Appreciate the work you've put into those spread sheets!

Your ShamStats Spread sheet has increased my ssc damage by approx. 300 effective dps and has put me from avg 5 to 8 on dps meter to fighting back and forth for 1st and 2nd.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK.

HASTE does do alot on increasing dps with the right gear

About comparing spell haste and spell crit, what you want to do is get (spell crit%)x(spell haste%) as high as possible if I'm not mistaken. So let's say you have 40% crit, and 5% haste, and have to chose between 1% spell haste or 1% spell crit.

You would get more dps (not including chain lightning or heroism here, this is simplified from the top of my head) if you pick 1% haste in this scenario, because 1.4x1.06=1.484 and 1,41x1.05=1.4805, which would make your dps about 0.24% (1,484/1,4805≈1.00236) higher just by pickign one stat over the other. At the end of the day, you want as much of both stats as possible of course, but you also want them to be as close to eachother as possible.

Basically if you want a simple rule, I'd say try boost your weakest stat of spell crit and spell haste. Should bring you closer to where you want to be.

Ps. Sorry if I get this wrong, but I think I'm correct here.. Then again, it's 2:11 am. ds.

Thank you for your time

There'll be a lot more to it than that.
Did a little playing, and got a flat 1 Crit to 0.63 haste, which was kinda odd.

Will be looking at it a bit closer later.

Has anyone done any investigation into how long a fight needs to last for Skycall Totem to beat Totem of the Void on average?

I have an elemental shaman question regarding DPS Time in Combat. As many of you are aware, WoW Webstats is a very informative tool showing raid progress and a great indicator as to what the raid needs to do better. Here is a sample from one of our last Gruul kills:

Wow Web Stats

The question I have is how do I get my (Serdes) dps time in combat up?

All I am doing during the fight is running to my position, dropping three totems, and rotating my lightning bolts. After a shatter, if I need to, I throw out a heal but as you can see from this report, I healed two times.

I realize that silence and shatter are not avoidable, but they are not avoidable for the mages and other casters as well.

I took the Crit values and divided them by the haste values. Seemed to be an ok initial calc, I just need to figure out a decent start point for crit %.
DPS time is an irrelevant stat for Elemental shaman. There has already been talk about how you can increase it, but the TL;DR version is: Don't worry about it.

This is kind of nitpicking, but I wanted to make sure that people understand that spec'ing two points into Guardian Totems gives Grounding Totem a two second cooldown reduction, not a two second cooldown.

Binkenstein excellent work on your shamstats, just a quick question. I've noticed that your calculations do not seem to take into account the 1% spell hit racial for Dreanei shaman. I was under the impression that the player recives this buff as well, even though it does not show up on his buff bar. By all means please correct me if I am wrong, as that 1% extra hit does play a large roll in itemization choices.
thanks.

Fixed.
Try selecting your race then, because I've already added it. I don't have Orc/Troll added in yet, because I don't have a 70 I can grab base stats from.

(This was said about my simple rule to get whatever stat was your weakest of spell haste and spell crit.(if you have 5% haste and 40% crit, try boosting haste))

Binkenstein, I'd really like to see what other things you've thought about here too, since the only other thing I see to it is using the 3/1 rotation which would kinda waste a bit of the spell haste, and also other haste factors as drums of battle and heroism, which might waste a bit of spell haste as well. Or did you find a fundamental flaw in my reasoning?

Can anyone point me to a reasonably in-depth discussion of the v2.3 TLC w/ the most-sad 2.5s CD, and/or a discussion of skycall vs void(/teron)?

My instinct says that the 2.5s CD really is pretty bad, because it means consecutive procs will *never* register; I also remember distinctly that TLC procs procced itself should the crit; does the 3rd "charge" firing actually count in the new CD? Anyone know for sure? The 2.5 CD basically means to me that the possible LO, next shot, or next shot's LO after a crit are all ignored. Obviously the effect of this CD scales with crit, but tracking the actual loss has confounded me a bit (I should probably try it when I'm not driving on the freeway at 2 am, yeah?)

*edit*
I just found a reference to the above point in the spreadsheet thread. Are you *SURE* that the CD applies only to the firing-phase proc of TLC? Cause it sure sounds like the CD should be on each charge. If it's only on the final firing, I think that for ele shamans you can almost entirely dismiss the CD as it should only come into play when 3 consecutive crits occur, and at least 1 is a TLC itself or a LO, which is possible not not common even with reasonably high crit, and certainly is not a significant fraction of crit. (I am partying right now if this is true! Haha! Take that arcane missile spam!)
*edit*

No matter what, void(/teron) appear better for farming or fights with alot of movement, but for stationary fights, if we assume 2/3 up-time then it's roughly 4% dmg increase? As someone in a guild wanting for shw priests, I really don't like haste as it's the *only* dps stat which does not boost dpm, so I only want to stick to it if the increase is *really* worth it.

Since 2.3, I've bought badge belt, boots, bracers, and just today BP, and I'm planning gloves next; I've been holding off on the totem so far. While the patch day definitely included a most unwelcome (but imo, understandable) dps nerf, I've made most of that dps up already in badge gear (wont apply to you T6 people obviously). However, more notable to me than the dps nerf has been the fact that my former threat-capping problems seem much-relieved; a natural result of switching roughly 10% of our dps into the threatless LOs. Do some of my tanks just kinda suck, or were other people threatcapping before as well and better off?

*edit*
Also, anyone want to just list, in order, the various useful trinkets? Good approximations of dps would help of course, but without is fine too. I note people don't tend to suggest the crusade (blessings deck) trinket. Keeping that buff rolling adds a whole new interesting aspect to fights. Bink's point about skull of gul'dan is excellent; the hit is wasted, and since haste has limitted benefit for us due to capping at the GCD, it's probably best to leave it to other casters. So sextant/TLC ends up on top?
*edit*

Sorry to just jump in, but I've been having a bit of an discussion with some friends in the guild. Which would be a better choice for a caster group - moonkin or an ele shaman. We can't come to terms which can do more sustained DPS (threat and mana are the two most common issues of moonkins in our discussion - please tell me if i'm wrong here) and whose utility brings more to the casters.

Moonkin brings 5% crit, an innervate (although they will possibly have to self-innervate if it's a long fight, and if it isn't no-one else needs the innervate anyway) and a battle res. Can decurse too. Can spot-heal but requires changing form and is thus very expensive for the moonkin.

Elemental shaman brings 3% crit, 3% spell hit, 101 spell damage and some mana/5 and when useful tremor totem, and bloodlust. Can cure poison and disease, and can spot heal without changing form.

From experience, since we have a raiding moonkin and a raiding ele shaman with comparable gear, damage output is pretty similar against single targets (the ele shaman will pull ahead if they can regularly get multiple hits out of chain lightning). The ele shaman is less dependent on a shadow priest for mana (the moonkin is absolutely dependent on a shadow priest) but it makes sense to have the ele shaman in with the shadow priest anyway to buff the shadow priest.

The elemental shaman and moonkin do comparable damage, but the elemental shaman provides far more group buffs. If you could only take one, you'd take the shaman unless you were desperate for an extra decurse or an extra battle res. But there's nothing particularly wrong with taking both.

It would be nice if you could update the late 2.3 change to LB/CL coefficients, took me a while to find the updated ones.
This is what I found, hopefully the correct amount?
Water Shield is getting changed again in 2.3.2.

[Design: Chaotic Skyfire Diamond] still makes your spells crit for 209% instead of 203%, no notice of a coming change yet. Might at least add that info, whether it's working as intended or not.

[The Lightning Capacitor] has its 2.5s cooldown only after triggering a lightning. Getting a triple crit after the cooldown in up gives you 3 charges instantly, causing a new lightning, getting back to zero charges and a new 2.5s cooldown in one step (at least from my testing with Arcane Missiles/Explosion).

Thanks RK, that was about what I'd say as well - ele shaman gives more buffs for his own, caster group. Moonkin can provide 3% hit for hunters and melee and 2% chance for the boss to miss, that was the counter agrument. Some balance druids I've spoken to say that it's hard to spec into the 3% hit bonus without gimping your own performance, others say it's very handy (especially for tanks).

edit: forgot to mention that I'm posting all of it here because there is no moonkin discussion thread (or at least I haven't found one).