The One Stop Elemental Shop - Page 2

PSGarak · 10/11/07, 11:15 PM

It's worth stating that Totem of Wrath stacks with itself. My raid used to have 4 ele shamans and two caster groups, so we would run with Wrath of Air, TA, and 2xToW.

Also, I cleaned up your table because code doesn't like tabs.

Spell                  Rank  Mana   Range  Cast      Cooldown  Damage                    School
Lightning Bolt (2.2)   12    330    30     3(2.0)    -         563 – 643                 Nature
Lightning Bolt (2.3)   12    300    30     2.5(2.0)  -         563 – 643                 Nature
Chain Lightning (2.2)  6     835    30     2.5(1.5)  6         734 – 838                 Nature
Chain Lightning (2.3)  6     770    30     2(1.5)    6         734 – 838                 Nature
Flame Shock            7     500    20     Instant   6(5)      377 + 420 over 12 seconds Fire
Earth Shock            8     535    20     Instant   6(5)      658 – 692 + Interrupt     Nature
Frost Shock            5     525    20     Instant   6(5)      640 – 676 + Snare	      Frost

() means talented, and I added a cooldown column.

Jini · 10/11/07, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by PSGarak

Table

The table is incorrect for talented 2.3 spells. Talented cast time is still 2s.

Moshne · 10/12/07, 12:55 AM

I found some of the information we are missing on the PTR.

Water Shield: 200 mana per globe, 3 globes, 1 min. "When the spell expires, each remaining globe will activate and grant 200 mana to the caster. Lasts 1 minute"

Also, confirmed full rank, untalented Mana Spring Totem is 20 mana every 2 seconds.

• Binkenstein · 10/12/07, 2:11 AM

Originally Posted by PSGarak

It's worth stating that Totem of Wrath stacks with itself. My raid used to have 4 ele shamans and two caster groups, so we would run with Wrath of Air, TA, and 2xToW.

Also, I cleaned up your table because code doesn't like tabs.

Spell                  Rank  Mana   Range  Cast      Cooldown  Damage                    School
Lightning Bolt (2.2)   12    330    30     3(2.0)    -         563 – 643                 Nature
Lightning Bolt (2.3)   12    300    30     2.5(2.0)  -         563 – 643                 Nature
Chain Lightning (2.2)  6     835    30     2.5(1.5)  6         734 – 838                 Nature
Chain Lightning (2.3)  6     770    30     2(1.5)    6         734 – 838                 Nature
Flame Shock            7     500    20     Instant   6(5)      377 + 420 over 12 seconds Fire
Earth Shock            8     535    20     Instant   6(5)      658 – 692 + Interrupt     Nature
Frost Shock            5     525    20     Instant   6(5)      640 – 676 + Snare	      Frost

() means talented, and I added a cooldown column.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Jini

The table is incorrect for talented 2.3 spells. Talented cast time is still 2s.

It's correct.

Originally Posted by Moshne

I found some of the information we are missing on the PTR.

Water Shield: 200 mana per globe, 3 globes, 1 min. "When the spell expires, each remaining globe will activate and grant 200 mana to the caster. Lasts 1 minute"

Also, confirmed full rank, untalented Mana Spring Totem is 20 mana every 2 seconds.

Danke. Updating now (although I knew of the mana spring one)

Can you get updated CL stats?

• Binkenstein · 10/12/07, 3:01 AM

I've got some stats for new 2.3 items, pluging them in now.

Might get another shamstats update later tonight (did one earlier today) if I get onto the PTR and check out whats there.

Moshne · 10/12/07, 3:22 AM

I'll get the Chain Lightning data when I can log back in, the server is down.

However, slightly related
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/9...ementalxu8.jpg

Elemental Spell Pushback prevention on our new 4-piece bonus. /cheer.

Moshne · 10/12/07, 4:24 AM

Chain Lightning - 760 mana 734-838 Nature Damage
Lightning Bolt - 300 damage, 563-643 Nature Damage

That is from the Shaman trainer, obviously, untalented.

Also, the Tidefury set adds 56 mana to the water shield (4 piece bonus)

Zifna · 10/12/07, 12:05 PM

Hunh... that's what, 30 mana off lightning bolt, 0 off Chain Lightning?

Jini · 10/12/07, 1:24 PM

Originally Posted by Zifna

Hunh... that's what, 30 mana off lightning bolt, 0 off Chain Lightning?

75 off Chain Lightning.

I'm still underwhelmed, I don't understand how this equates to equal mana usage over the same amount of time.

Moshne · 10/12/07, 1:31 PM

[Totem of the Thunderhead]
Now 27 mana per charge (on PTR, obviously not in the link)

Benjaimn · 10/12/07, 2:18 PM

This might be already asked, but I've heard that we will scale better with haste in 2.3 because of LO, on your spreadsheet is hasted valued as it will be in 2.3?

Chemdog · 10/12/07, 3:14 PM

Everything in his spreadsheet, I believe, is valued for 2.3.

Chemdog · 10/12/07, 3:47 PM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

[*]Tranquil Air Reduces threat by 20%. Multiplies with other threat reduction buffs/talents

Tranquil Air multplies with Salvation? I didn't know that. Always assumed it didn't.

Vapid · 10/12/07, 3:59 PM

Originally Posted by Chemdog

Tranquil Air multplies with Salvation? I didn't know that. Always assumed it didn't.

Confirmed.

Aloaya · 10/12/07, 3:59 PM

Water Shield: 200 mana per globe, 3 globes, 1 min. "When the spell expires, each remaining globe will activate and grant 200 mana to the caster. Lasts 1 minute"

Really? That's 50mp5 that I think every shaman will appreciate. That spell just went from "Eh, I guess it's worth having up" to "Giant SCT flash when it fades".

Draegan · 10/12/07, 4:52 PM

Wow amazing watershield change. I like it.

Aeonix · 10/12/07, 5:15 PM

Originally Posted by Aloaya

Really? That's 50mp5 that I think every shaman will appreciate. That spell just went from "Eh, I guess it's worth having up" to "Giant SCT flash when it fades".

mp/5 is a misleading calculation, though it's a baseline to be sure. Personally, I find 20 mp/2 far more useful than I might find 50 mp/5 (equivalent mana, different time-blocks).

However, for the sake of comparison, it's useful to note that Mana Spring and Water Shield both net out to the exact same mana regen rate when you break it down: 50 mp/5 equivalent.

Stack'em together with Blessing of Wisdom and I don't see shaman running out of mana easily - especially with other mana regen talents converting intel & crits into gold.

• Binkenstein · 10/12/07, 5:19 PM

Originally Posted by Aloaya

Really? That's 50mp5 that I think every shaman will appreciate. That spell just went from "Eh, I guess it's worth having up" to "Giant SCT flash when it fades".

That's why it says "confirmed" :P

[edit]Started on a Totem page on ShamStats, but I still need an internal cooldown for the totem

[/edit]

Aeonix · 10/12/07, 5:33 PM

Worth noting:

• A talented mana-spring is now worth 62.5 mp/5 equivalent
• A trinketed water-shield, at best, is worth 56.75 mp/5 equivilent

Resto talents continue to scale nicely. The real question (I'll leave this up to the real math folks) - is the mana gained by the Restorative Totems talent worth more than the mana gained through crit in the Tidal Mastery talent?

We're assuming an LB/LB/LB/CL or LB spam rotation here. Let's avoid the flame-shock calculation for the time being.

Aeonix · 10/12/07, 5:36 PM

Also of some importance: Mana-spring affects the group, water shield does not. Also, having ToW available to casters reduces the talent to 20% from 25%.

60 mp/5 equivalent if you keep ToW. How much crit do we need to equal 10 mp/5?

Likewise (stating the obvious), clearcasting does not help the group. From a role-perspective, we begin to wonder if tidal mastery is worthwhile anymore.

• Binkenstein · 10/12/07, 5:56 PM

12.5mp5 vs 5% crit.

Is this a trick question?

On the current shamstats version, crit rating gets 0.987, mp5 gets 1.159

In short, 1% crit = 22.812 DEP
You do the math.

◊ Lord BEEF · 10/12/07, 6:11 PM

It looks like your DPS indeed went up

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1...changespx6.jpg

WoW Forums -> New LO is 50% Base Damage

New lightning overload does 50% of the base damage of lightning bolt, but still gets bonus spell damage, so really it's a lot more than 50% of the damage of the original bolt. It can also proc off of itself.

Unless you have over 4558 damage currently you'll do more damage in 2.3

Moshne · 10/12/07, 7:33 PM

Water Shield:

- On actual usage, Water Shield is 203-204. This might be due to funny scaling with an elemental shaman talent, I am working on that now. When it wears off it still give 600, which lends credence to this idea.

EDIT: Its not related to my talents, I dropped my talents and took off all my gear, still reports 203-204.

-At current Totem of the Thunderhead is only proccing on the wear off mana returned, not on taking damage.

- Taking the totem off before it wears off does not give credit for the shield. However, putting it on when it wears off DOES give the mana.

- I tried dueling a mage, his spellsteal did not set off the "wear off" mana, and purging him , he claimed it didn't set off for him either. Dueling another shaman, purge did not set it off on either of us. Looks like it only works on wear off, not dispel unlike Lifebloom.

Clearcast:

- Clearcast, as expected, does not stack beyond two charges, critting during CC just refreshes the timer and sets it back to two charges

- I've only had a couple instances of having the LO charge proc, but it is NOT proccing Clearcast, I haven't noticed if it still consumes it or not.

Bink, if you would rather I posted this stuff in another thread, let me know. This seemed like a good place to gather it all.

• Binkenstein · 10/12/07, 8:27 PM

Nah, here is cool.

If LO crits don't proc clearcast, that'll be a pain, but I think we can live with it.
Current models are based on the assumption that it does, so if you can do some more testing, that would be good.

I'm still waiting on my tauren shaman to copy over to the PTR

galzohar · 10/12/07, 8:32 PM

New lightning overload does 50% of the base damage of lightning bolt, but still gets bonus spell damage, so really it's a lot more than 50% of the damage of the original bolt. It can also proc off of itself.

I suppose that's why I couldn't find the crying I was looking for, as if it was 1/2 damage as one would normally expect the lower coefficient should've greatly reduced shaman DPS. Good to know this more than makes up for it as elemental shamans were already not *too* common.