For me any calculation that figures out breaking point between LB and CL needs to include 4p T6 in the calculation.

see: lightning bolt damage. That's the damage after taking talents, +damage, and set bonuses into account.
I didn't want to re-cover all the damage calculations, so I assumed that they had already been done.

Also, this is not for comparing CL and LB, it is for comparing a 3/1 rotation with 4/1.
I'll re-work it later to account for 2.4 GCD changes

From what I can gather, you're referring to the break point when using haste, since the 3/1 rotation works perfectly when no haste is involved. I think the amount of haste involved is also relevant, as the more haste you gain, the longer you wait when using a 3/1 rotation. I'm also not sure where the 0.375 comes from (the 1.5 is the GCD, I assume), so I'd appreciate it if you could explain what you mean by it.

About your previous question:
I'm actually not sure how I did come up with them, to be honest... the one for the Ashtongue trinket just seemed logical to me.

And as a last point:

I've noticed that someone already calculated the formula for the Skycall totem correctly (from what I can gather, at least) and it should look like this:

1-(0.85^(1.2*(10/(haste %))))) = A

1-0.85 indicates the proc chance, the 1.2 multiplier is LO and 10 is the duration.

The result (A) should provide us with the totem's uptime when the proc is not active. To include the proc, the following formula can be used:

(2/(1 + haste %))+ A *0.06))*100 = B

B should then be the resulting haste gain (the 100 multiplicator simply indicates that the uptime in % is multiplied by the haste value the totem provides, which luckily is exactly 100).

Are you certain LO procs it? I thought it had been established LO does not proc skycall.

"1-(0.85^(1.2*(10/(haste %)))))" has mismatched parens. I think you put one too many closing parens. or meant.
(1-(0.85^(1.2*(10/(haste %))))) .

What are you using for haste%? If thats the chance of skycall proccing when the proc is not already up and you have 0 haste gear you are div by 0. I don't think this can be right. Or is this supposed to be the 100 haste from the skycall totem?

I was under the impression that LO did proc Skycall - feel free to correct me, though.

Sorry about that mismatch. While it doesn't make much of a difference, your interpretation of what I meant is correct. Haste % indicates your current haste in percent.

So if your current haste % is 0 you get infinity...? Or is 0 haste 1.00?

It becomes roughly 65.85, which corresponds to the simulator's results.

Here's the formula direcly from excel:

[top]1-(0.85^(1.2*(10/(2/(1+(A6/1577))))))

(2/(1 + (2/(1+(A6/1577)))+ C29*0.06))*100

A6 is the haste as a value (try entering 0, for example), C29 is the result of the first part of the formula.


Hope this helps.

Aha, that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification, and yeah, that matches well with everything I've seen about uptime for the proc.

Is the haste value the haste rating from gear or the skycall totem. I think I missed what this formula was for, I think this was for the totem correct? If its for the totem, would the haste value always be 100 for A6. Also with this formula the differents form 0 haste to 100 haste is only 65.846 to 68.505. Is that the up time haste value average?

The calculation is not by me btw - I couldn't come up with a way not to overvalue the proc refreshing itself. The original author can be found in the other elemental shaman thread.

The formula calculates the % uptime of the Skycall Totem proc. Because the uptime will be affected by the amount of passive haste rating you have on your gear (i.e., if you cast more LBs in a given amount of time, but the proc lasts a finite amount of time, then the proc will be up more), the formula has to take into that into consideration. The value to plug in for "A6" is thus your haste from gear.

[Edit] Plugging in a hypothetical value of 100 haste rating from gear, the proc uptime goes up as one might expect, to 68.5%.

Ok that makes since so the haste value is gear haste and not totem proc haste. Thank you.

On a sidenote, this formula sadly also confirms that the Totem of Ancestral Guidance is indeed superior, though only slightly (considering my permanent haste of 164 at the moment). Shame, really, as I love stacking haste

I started out with
To figure out how fast a bolt has to be to be equal to the damage output of a chain.

T is the "time left" on that fourth bolt cast, where N is the cast time, 6 is the CL cooldown (so 6-3N = time remaining after three bolts for the CL cooldown)
Doing some quick algebra, I came up with that formula, which when plugged into some actual figures, seemed to work quite well (1000dmg/40% crit came out at 1.9 which is the 5% mark I have seen on the haste graphs)

[e]The reason I did this is because going from 3/1 to 4/1 is a loss in DPS unless you have enough haste, so I decided to figure out how to calculate that point where 3/1 = 4/1 dps.

Looks like the latest "patch notes" are another big nerf to elemental shamans coming. I hope these are fake. But right now the changes are:

Reduced coefficient on LB (how much? dunno)
LO can't proc off instant spells (this one sort of makes sense, no proc off NS/CL)
LO can't crit. (nerf to LO equivalent to our spell crit, so about 35-40% loss off LO, which is like 10% of our damage, thus being a 3-4% drop to damage)

Add in the LB nerf and it could be another 10% nerf to our dps.

Those are rumour only. Please wait for final patch notes before making conclusions (ie: if it ain't blue posted, don't talk about it)

I redownloaded Sham Stats from File Front today to check the DEP values again. It's still not weighting in Haste on the version I downloaded from the link on the First page. Is there something I can edit, or another link I can go to, in order to see the proper weight/values for Haste?

I did not see an option to use Destruction Potions instead of a mana gain potion (I do not use Super Mana Potions), If I have JoW or a SP I don't use MA pots at all. I pop only Destro pots. Is this in the spreadsheet and I just missed it?

The gear I listed here for the DEP values included my "haste pieces". Going non-haste items I'd use:
Totem Totem of Ancestral Guidance 56
Bracers Vindicator's Mail Bracers 49
Gloves Skyshatter Gauntlets 96
Belt Starfire Waistband 73
Back Cloak of the Illidari Council 53
Neck Vindicator's Pendant of Conquest 47


The following fields are the only ones I did make, or might have made, any alterations or adjustments to. All other fields were left exactly as they appear once downloaded. Technically I use Mad Alchemist Potions when I need mana.

It listed these numbers:
Stam 0.1 LB 0.08
Int 0.279 Eint CL 0.07
Spirit 0.039 Espi Exta Mana
Dmg 0.721 Edmg 0
Crit Rating 0.769 Ecrit 100
Hit Rating 0.000 Ehit 49
mp5 0.786 Emp5 0
Haste 0.000 Ehast 149


Using this Gear:
Race Draenei 47
Head Skyshatter Headguard 186
Neck Brooch of Nature's Mercy 25
Shoulders Skyshatter Mantle 82
Back Shadowcaster's Drape 27
Chest Skyshatter Breastplate 145
Bracers Bracers of Nimble Thought 33
Gloves Spiritwalker Gauntlets 32
Belt Belt of the Crescent Moon 43
Legs Skyshatter Legguards 135
Feet Naturewarden's Treads 85
Ring Ring of Unrelenting Storms 50
Ring Band of the Eternal Sage 64
Weapon Wub's Cursed Hexblade 183
Off Hand Antonidas's Aegis of Rapt Concentration 54
Trinket Sextant of Unstable Currents 65
Trinket Darkmoon Card: Crusade 58
Totem Skycall Totem 0

These Enchants:
Helm Glyph of Power
Shoulder Greater Inscription of the Orb
Back B:Sublety
Chest C:Exceptional Stats
Wrist W:Spellpower
Hands G:Major Spellpower
Legs Runic Spellthread
Feet F: Boar's Speed
Ring 1 None
Ring 2 None
Weapon MH:Major Spellpower
Shield S:Intellect

These Gems:
Meta Chaotic Skyfire Diamond (M)
Blue Glowing Shadowsong Amethyst (BR)
Red Runed Crimson Spinel (R)
Yellow Potent Pyrestone (RY)

These Buffs:
Arcane Intellect Yes
Blessing of Kings Yes
Blessing of Wisdom Yes
Judgement of Wisdom No
Mark of the Wild Yes
Moonkin Aura No
Shadow Priest No
Super Mana Pot Yes
Wrath of Air Yes

Thanks for the effort.
I no longer use 4set vengeful at Gorefiend. I do more in my pure dps gear. I've broken 1.5k easily with an Enhancement Shaman in my raid as well. It's possible without one, but much harder to do consistently.

Again, if you have the option for Adjusting Haste based on Mana Use set to 1, then it will reduce the haste value by the extra mp5 it uses. If you don't then you may get something closer to your "true" value of haste, but as I've said previousyl I'm looking at re-doing the math behind mp5/haste.

Like I said last time, I have no idea what that means.

EDIT: To clarify. That entire paragraph (ALL OF IT) might has well have been in Latin. I have no idea about the mp5/haste thing you are talking about, where this setting of 1 is (could not find a setting 1 for something like that), or anything. I do not understand at all what you are speaking about for every sentence you just wrote.

Check the Options section on the Main tab. It'll be to the right of the item selection section, between the item list and talent selection.

There is something called "Haste Mana Adj" with a Yes/No option that gave some weight to it now, but not somethign with the words or numbers you used. But the weights are very different from Diadalos's listed on your first page.

With the non-haste gear the spreadsheet listed:
Stam 0.1
Int 0.285 Eint
Spirit 0.039 Espi
Dmg 0.695 Edmg
Crit Rating 0.797 Ecrit
Hit Rating 0.000 Ehit
mp5 0.771 Emp5
Haste 0.746 Ehast

Which rates Crit the highest, Haste at 2nd, and Dmg at 3rd.

Diadalos:
spell dmg: 1531 (1200 base +85relic +101 totem +80 flask +23 food + 43 oil)
crit : 37.01% (23.01% +5 +6 +3)
haste: 3.37% (53 rating)
hit: 16.04 (4.04% (51 rating) + 6 talent + 3 talent + 3 totem)

1 crit rating -> 0.7566 spell dmg
1 Haste rating -> 1.406 spell dmg

I'm at fully raid buffed with crusader at 80 (with no haste gear):
1500ish spell dmg
41/42% crit
spell hit capped
200mp5

Forgetting to equate ya'lls numbers "perfectly" to see the % differences, it's obvious that the numbers are not even close. So now that I have the spreadsheet working right, who's numbers are right? Because his quoted numbers on your first page and your spreadsheet don't match up at all.

I'm not bitching - but I just don't know which person's suggestions to follow. Before I drop DKP on the staff at Illidan over picking up a better dagger, or get crafted haste gear, etc... I'd like to know.

No, they are not going to match.

He gives examples based on certain gear levels, my values come from your current gear levels, talents, consumables, buffs, and other settings.

If you want general figures, use his. If you want more accurate figures, use mine.
Be aware that Crit gets inflated due to the CC component of the spell.