Wodi

Thanks for the pawn sclae Everwatch and Daidalos I will update the crit to your new weight since Everwatch is basing his weights from you anyways. The thing I thought was wierd is that the pawn scale say the Slippers of the Seacaller - Items - World of Warcraft are better than Boots of Oceanic Fury - Items - World of Warcraft and Naturewarden's Treads - Items - World of Warcraft. We have 3 of the Slippers of the Seacaller - Items - World of Warcraft already. I think I will wait for the clothes to get the Slippers of the Seacaller - Items - World of Warcraft and the pick them up.

 

Daidalos

Ok my bad I was thinking locks were at 3.0s talented.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Daidalos

The slippers are very good but since naturewarden should be on par I'd let clothies get it first but certainly if you are getting alot of them they are better than Oceanic Fury nothing wrong with wearing them.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Wodi

Yea I allready told my GM that I was going to wait on cloth gear. I will wait till no one wanted them for main spec.

 

• Binkenstein

Myself, I'm going for Naturewarden's over the other two. Our Moonkin has em already too

Also, I'm working on a v2 for ShamSpells, just thinking out ability/spell selection for a more accurate modeling system

 

raptorgsus

I'm looking to update my trinkets guys - I'm currently using Vengeance of the Illidari and Xiri's gift. I'd like to have Shiffar's Horn, but getting a group that will actually run heroic arc is impossible. I'll eventually have Sextant and hex Shrunken Head. My question is this - would I be smart to buy the Battlemaster's Depravity and replace vengeance of the illidari? I know the HP activation is kind of useless for raiding, but the 40% crit is nice.

Is almost doubling my crit on that slot worth losing the +damage activation every 2 minutes? I have the activator linked to my chain lightning rotation so it goes off almost every time it is possible in a raid setting.

Oh...I also use Totem of the Void instead of my badge-bought Epic Haste proc totem (cant remember the name) - it seems to be solid even on long fights. I tend to hate %chance procs.

 

• Daler

Simple comparison.

[Vengeance of the Illidari] is 26 crit rating and 120 damage for 15 secs on a 90 sec cooldown. [Battlemaster's Depravity] is a flat 40 crit rating with no PvE bonus.

The on-use portion of the first equates to an average of 20 spell damage. Is 14 crit rating > 20 spell damage for you? If you value crit rating at > 1.429 spell damage, then yes. If not, then no.

 

Kasi

Icon from badges is still an extremely strong ele shaman trinket. It also costs a lot less. Spell crit is a worse stats for us than damage. So if you really want a BM trinket, go with the spell damage one. But the best bang for your badges is definitely the Icon.

 

Daidalos

Unless you have really low spell dmg skycall is better than void. If you want you can make your CL a macro that swaps in the relic after you start the cast. This will give the CL the addition 55 dmg since it calculates the amount of spell dmg when the cast completes not when it starts.

To find out which trinket is better just take the average spell dmg on the trinket and compare the 2.

26 crit rating + (120dmg *15s) / 120s = 15 avg spell dmg

26 crit raiting +15 spell dmg
vs
40 crit rating.

for low end .756 crit rating = 1 spell dmg
so
19.625 +15 = 34.65

vs
40 crit rating
40*.756 = 30.24

If you need the mana for crit do what you need to do but stacking crit is not the way to get high dmg only higher LB efficiency. I'd go for the [Icon of the Silver Crescent] as a very good easy to get trinket.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

everwatch

Daidalos - some questions.

Looked at your spreadsheet finally. Here were some results I did not fully understand.

Flame Shock
Rank7 70 70 450 1980.84 958.44 3503.26 2335.51 5.19 12 239.61
Lightning Bolt
Rank 12 67 70 270 1932.63 2999.48 1.814 1 1653.90 6.13
Chain Lightning
Rank 6 684 1790.52 2778.93 3031.356963 4704.73 5132.087338 7965.11 1.36 6 2043.05 3458.89 5855.90 2.99 5.06 8.56


Now I didn't much understand what the Single Target (ST) DPS for CL was against a boss, but that is not my main interest. So it said that with my current gear that a FS will do 2335.51 DPS, while my LB DPS will do 1653 DPS. Am I reading this right? With my gear/talents, it's more total DPS (providing I have the mana) to work in a FS rotation? Cause I will sure as hell work it in if I am reading this correctly and this is accurate.

There are several boss fights where I can stand closer with no issues. And I'm lookin to up my DPS by every single point I can eek out. Even if it's only 50 DPS.



It also had a small area under rotations that said:

Optimal rotation accounting for haste latency factored in
Num LBs if wait for CL
Num LBs if cast LB instead of wait

What does Num LBs if wait for CL versus the other line mean? 1st is just if you wait for the cd on CL instead of casting a 4th LB? And then the 2nd one is still using CL, but after the 4th LB?


I took some time playing with WWS and the Scoreboard finally. I managed to get in top5 (for shaman) on Mother and while I made it on Illidan, I've since been pushed off. I'm starting to see a little of what you are talking about. I'm going to try to make sure I get a list of all WWS's for now on until I get it installed on my comp properly (still not working for some reason). I'd like to see how I pan out. I've only got those 3 WWS links I showed you before atm, sigh.


I'd like to revist an old topic too if you will humor me. What exactly is the Proc rate on Skycall Totem? What is the internal CD? How much of a DPS upgrade is it over Totem of Ancestral Guidance? Has anyone broken down how much Haste you gain from it on average if it were to be up all of the time? IE, like some people show how a +200 spell damag on use ability is actually worth say 40 spell damage. Is there an equation that shows Skycall is worth X static haste overall so I could compare it to 85 spell damage?


Did anyone, other than doing rough guesses, double check the potential raid DPS that Searing Totem will cause 3/3 talented versus what the "potential" DPS gain would be from other casters who do benefit from +spell crit? And if so, do we have numbers for Mages, Locks, and Ele Shaman? What is the break point? When should Searing Totem be used instead?

http://www.skeletonjack.com/

 

everwatch

Agreed. While the cloth are slightly better, you also gain Stamina, MP5, and armor on the leather ones. There are *far* too many casters who can use the cloth ones, which are just not *that* much better than Naturewarden's to make it solid. Plus the gain on Stamina and MP5 isn't bad.

http://www.skeletonjack.com/

 

Daidalos

It depends on your raid buffs. If you have all the fire buffs and no storm strikes yes it is.

Lets assume 3 LBs take 2.8s instead of casting a a 4th LB you wait .2s and cast a CL.

Ancestral and skycall are pretty even since skycall increases mana useage a little I use Ancestral Guidance.

The uptime for skycall has been dicussed in depth alot to the ecent that 2 people wrote sim for it. Go back and look at its uptime. The skycall up time increases with your amount of haste but basically its worth about 65 haste

It depends on spec and I"m not an expert on mages and locks but I'd say 2 or more casters in good gear would make it worth using.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

whave

As far as I can remember, Shiffar's drops on normal difficulty too. Correct me if I'm wrong.

edit: from wowdb:
Level: 115
Drops in a Normal Instance
Drops in a Heroic Instance

 

Daidalos

Yes it does I got mine on a normal run.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

◊ masanbol

This is some cool news.

 

everwatch

I'm not sure where to "Go back" to. I have no basis for fact here...but it still feels like giving up 85 spell damage for a proc haste is a dps nerf... Maybe if I was over 1500 fully buffed I'd do it. But then maybe that is my problem, wanting to see 1500 so bad I'm ignoring what I should do... Not sure there.

I could very well be taking this out of context, but the impression I had is that there is a very realistic DPS wall where Searing Totem is more total raid DPS. Did anyone run hard numbers on this?


I'm going to be respec'ing a bit for a while. I want to get in 1 or 2 more runs in BT/MH as Ele, but I'm practicing with Enhancement again for the moment. Totem twisting is a mother fucker when your shocks are on 5 second cooldowns. Went ahead and shelled out the points for 2 Vengeful weapons the other day. Our Enhancement Shaman (who replaced me initially when I went Elemental) has vanished for the past month, and there's no free top geared ones on our server atm. So at least until we get the majority of Sunwell on farm, I'll be doing Enhancement a lot. Sad Panda Face. The upside is it's cool to run with our melee again and our raid DPS shot up noticably. But it sucks seeing 1500+ DPS dip down into the 1200 DPS margin. I'm sure I'll jump up more once I'm back in the hot seat.

http://www.skeletonjack.com/

 

Daidalos

Use the search function we talked about it for like 3 pages in this thread. When the relic was introduced.


There isn't a magic number crit and hit are percentages not static. This means it depends on the spec and dps of the ppl you give it to.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

everwatch

We don't raid with casters who are not hit capped. +crit can only help *so* much. How much does +3% crit increase the personal dps of a caster?

Search functions don't like me. They pop up porn at the most inconvenient times... >.<

http://www.skeletonjack.com/

 

whave

As my friend said, with a bit of elitist approach

"Why don't they make all CC spells' duration infinite? The caster could cancel it when it's time, it would not break even if the caster dies, only the tank would be able to break it, but first a confirmation window would appear: Are you sure? Yes/No".

Anyways, this will only shorten the time spent with clearing trash. Good changes, even if it's EZ mode. We're not raiding for trashfights after all.

 

Kor, D'Har Master

Imo slick caster dps in guilds w/ ele shamans available for raiding come prepared w/ a set of gear 3% hit beneath the cap. My mage roommate used to have enough gear to optimize his hit cap for 70, 71, 72, and 73 mobs (which imo is a bit overboard, but the general idea holds.) Of course it's often the case that there either isn't enough spare gear to support that kind of tweaking and/or the gear with hit is just that much better anyway. Some specs may also just have trouble capping their hit assuming they are trying to stick to reasonable gear.

 

tufy

It doesn't work on PTR right now, though (either that or it's bugged). Tried using it on trash leading to m'uru yesterday (btw., that's one imba fun fight <3) and it jumped over to the nearest sheep without hesitation.

Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.

 

Traithan

As a caster officer of my guild, I do the exact same with my casters. I tell them to come with gear to cap at without me, but also come with gear to get them to 12% (Totem + Draenei Aura). But since iits kinda rare we have more than 6 casters or so in a raid, (Shadow Priests almost never need hit and go to healer groups often) I try to encourage them to socket for more spell damage gems than +hit/damage gems. The ones that listened to me so far have seen a significant damage increase. So if you are counting just 3% crit vs. Searing Totem? Yea, Searing totem wins, however with a little planning on you and your groups part, Totem of Wrath ends up being vastly superior.

 

everwatch

This, simply put, is not feasible when you're talking about a potential of 40-50 raiders, of which there is like around 20ish caster DPS. They'd all have to manage their gear, slotting, and old epics to work in when they can and can not. Which in an of itself would be a MASSIVE pain in the ass.

However that is NOT the kicker. Everyone knows good and well that sometimes, shit happens. Someone ends up OOR of the totems, the shaman dies and does not come back up for some reason, etc. If something goes wrong, then people will be doing less damage than they should be. It's simply not worth it because it's too damn risky. If ToW worked like Battle Shout, where people in your pary got it for a duration of time no matter where they went or if you died it would be different. But it's not, so it's not a good idea.




I did not get to test CL last night. Been running Enhancement to up our Raid DPS since we're short. I know the Druids were Swiping np and not breaking Sheeps at all.

http://www.skeletonjack.com/

 

Wodi

Here is 2 WWS reports from 1 raid night in MH. The first one I got killed 3% into the fight witch means no totems bllodlust of drums for my group. The second one I lived thru the whole fight. If you look at the 2 attempts at group 3 you can get a good Idea what our shaman totems do for the raid as far as DPS.
First (attept 2 on Azgalor): Wow Web Stats
Second (kill of Azgalor): WWS Loading...
You can see the DPS diffrentence of with and with out totems so you can get a rough idea vs Searing totem DPS.
There is roughly a avg 1886 DPS drop from the second to the first for group 3.
1886 avg loss - 1112 avg for Wodi on kill = 774 approx. gain on DPS for the rest of the group.

 

Touf

The silence lottery and raid dps -> personal dps feedback invalidate these reports.