I set Meta's to 50 as an arbitrary number. Never saw someone list a value for them. Would love to know it if someone does. Yellow/Blue are per epic gems of matching color as of 2.3. Change sockets per your personal choices. IE., all Runed Crimson Spinels would be 12 across the board for colored sockets.
Just need to point out (seen several posts now, and none mention it) that I can't imagine any warlock NOT speccing Bane. They do 2.5s Shadowbolts with talents, so if you're going to compare properly you need to compare them both talented, or both not talented.
Haste is generally good for all DPS classes, even Spriests (where you swap hit for haste).
Ok my bad I was thinking locks were at 3.0s talented.
The slippers are very good but since naturewarden should be on par I'd let clothies get it first but certainly if you are getting alot of them they are better than Oceanic Fury nothing wrong with wearing them.
The slippers are very good but since naturewarden should be on par I'd let clothies get it first but certainly if you are getting alot of them they are better than Oceanic Fury nothing wrong with wearing them.
Yea I allready told my GM that I was going to wait on cloth gear. I will wait till no one wanted them for main spec.
I'm looking to update my trinkets guys - I'm currently using Vengeance of the Illidari and Xiri's gift. I'd like to have Shiffar's Horn, but getting a group that will actually run heroic arc is impossible. I'll eventually have Sextant and hex Shrunken Head. My question is this - would I be smart to buy the Battlemaster's Depravity and replace vengeance of the illidari? I know the HP activation is kind of useless for raiding, but the 40% crit is nice.
Is almost doubling my crit on that slot worth losing the +damage activation every 2 minutes? I have the activator linked to my chain lightning rotation so it goes off almost every time it is possible in a raid setting.
Oh...I also use Totem of the Void instead of my badge-bought Epic Haste proc totem (cant remember the name) - it seems to be solid even on long fights. I tend to hate %chance procs.
I'm looking to update my trinkets guys - I'm currently using Vengeance of the Illidari and Xiri's gift. I'd like to have Shiffar's Horn, but getting a group that will actually run heroic arc is impossible. I'll eventually have Sextant and hex Shrunken Head. My question is this - would I be smart to buy the Battlemaster's Depravity and replace vengeance of the illidari? I know the HP activation is kind of useless for raiding, but the 40% crit is nice.
Is almost doubling my crit on that slot worth losing the +damage activation every 2 minutes? I have the activator linked to my chain lightning rotation so it goes off almost every time it is possible in a raid setting.
Oh...I also use Totem of the Void instead of my badge-bought Epic Haste proc totem (cant remember the name) - it seems to be solid even on long fights. I tend to hate %chance procs.
The on-use portion of the first equates to an average of 20 spell damage. Is 14 crit rating > 20 spell damage for you? If you value crit rating at > 1.429 spell damage, then yes. If not, then no.
Originally Posted by DeeNogger
I look forward to seeing these "numbers". Notice that I put the word numbers in quotations. Thats sassy type for "you're full of shit".
Originally Posted by Florrie
Nothing spells out attraction quite like being given books about the slaughter of your people.
Icon from badges is still an extremely strong ele shaman trinket. It also costs a lot less. Spell crit is a worse stats for us than damage. So if you really want a BM trinket, go with the spell damage one. But the best bang for your badges is definitely the Icon.
I'm looking to update my trinkets guys - I'm currently using Vengeance of the Illidari and Xiri's gift. I'd like to have Shiffar's Horn, but getting a group that will actually run heroic arc is impossible. I'll eventually have Sextant and hex Shrunken Head. My question is this - would I be smart to buy the Battlemaster's Depravity and replace vengeance of the illidari? I know the HP activation is kind of useless for raiding, but the 40% crit is nice.
Is almost doubling my crit on that slot worth losing the +damage activation every 2 minutes? I have the activator linked to my chain lightning rotation so it goes off almost every time it is possible in a raid setting.
Oh...I also use Totem of the Void instead of my badge-bought Epic Haste proc totem (cant remember the name) - it seems to be solid even on long fights. I tend to hate %chance procs.
Unless you have really low spell dmg skycall is better than void. If you want you can make your CL a macro that swaps in the relic after you start the cast. This will give the CL the addition 55 dmg since it calculates the amount of spell dmg when the cast completes not when it starts.
To find out which trinket is better just take the average spell dmg on the trinket and compare the 2.
for low end .756 crit rating = 1 spell dmg
so
19.625 +15 = 34.65
vs
40 crit rating
40*.756 = 30.24
If you need the mana for crit do what you need to do but stacking crit is not the way to get high dmg only higher LB efficiency. I'd go for the [Icon of the Silver Crescent] as a very good easy to get trinket.
Now I didn't much understand what the Single Target (ST) DPS for CL was against a boss, but that is not my main interest. So it said that with my current gear that a FS will do 2335.51 DPS, while my LB DPS will do 1653 DPS. Am I reading this right? With my gear/talents, it's more total DPS (providing I have the mana) to work in a FS rotation? Cause I will sure as hell work it in if I am reading this correctly and this is accurate.
There are several boss fights where I can stand closer with no issues. And I'm lookin to up my DPS by every single point I can eek out. Even if it's only 50 DPS.
It also had a small area under rotations that said:
Optimal rotation accounting for haste latency factored in Num LBs if wait for CL
Num LBs if cast LB instead of wait
What does Num LBs if wait for CL versus the other line mean? 1st is just if you wait for the cd on CL instead of casting a 4th LB? And then the 2nd one is still using CL, but after the 4th LB?
I took some time playing with WWS and the Scoreboard finally. I managed to get in top5 (for shaman) on Mother and while I made it on Illidan, I've since been pushed off. I'm starting to see a little of what you are talking about. I'm going to try to make sure I get a list of all WWS's for now on until I get it installed on my comp properly (still not working for some reason). I'd like to see how I pan out. I've only got those 3 WWS links I showed you before atm, sigh.
I'd like to revist an old topic too if you will humor me. What exactly is the Proc rate on Skycall Totem? What is the internal CD? How much of a DPS upgrade is it over Totem of Ancestral Guidance? Has anyone broken down how much Haste you gain from it on average if it were to be up all of the time? IE, like some people show how a +200 spell damag on use ability is actually worth say 40 spell damage. Is there an equation that shows Skycall is worth X static haste overall so I could compare it to 85 spell damage?
Did anyone, other than doing rough guesses, double check the potential raid DPS that Searing Totem will cause 3/3 talented versus what the "potential" DPS gain would be from other casters who do benefit from +spell crit? And if so, do we have numbers for Mages, Locks, and Ele Shaman? What is the break point? When should Searing Totem be used instead?
Myself, I'm going for Naturewarden's over the other two. Our Moonkin has em already too
Also, I'm working on a v2 for ShamSpells, just thinking out ability/spell selection for a more accurate modeling system
Agreed. While the cloth are slightly better, you also gain Stamina, MP5, and armor on the leather ones. There are *far* too many casters who can use the cloth ones, which are just not *that* much better than Naturewarden's to make it solid. Plus the gain on Stamina and MP5 isn't bad.
Now I didn't much understand what the Single Target (ST) DPS for CL was against a boss, but that is not my main interest. So it said that with my current gear that a FS will do 2335.51 DPS, while my LB DPS will do 1653 DPS. Am I reading this right? With my gear/talents, it's more total DPS (providing I have the mana) to work in a FS rotation? Cause I will sure as hell work it in if I am reading this correctly and this is accurate.
It depends on your raid buffs. If you have all the fire buffs and no storm strikes yes it is.
There are several boss fights where I can stand closer with no issues. And I'm lookin to up my DPS by every single point I can eek out. Even if it's only 50 DPS.
It also had a small area under rotations that said:
Optimal rotation accounting for haste latency factored in Num LBs if wait for CL
Num LBs if cast LB instead of wait
What does Num LBs if wait for CL versus the other line mean? 1st is just if you wait for the cd on CL instead of casting a 4th LB? And then the 2nd one is still using CL, but after the 4th LB?
Lets assume 3 LBs take 2.8s instead of casting a a 4th LB you wait .2s and cast a CL.
I took some time playing with WWS and the Scoreboard finally. I managed to get in top5 (for shaman) on Mother and while I made it on Illidan, I've since been pushed off. I'm starting to see a little of what you are talking about. I'm going to try to make sure I get a list of all WWS's for now on until I get it installed on my comp properly (still not working for some reason). I'd like to see how I pan out. I've only got those 3 WWS links I showed you before atm, sigh.
I'd like to revist an old topic too if you will humor me. What exactly is the Proc rate on Skycall Totem? What is the internal CD? How much of a DPS upgrade is it over Totem of Ancestral Guidance? Has anyone broken down how much Haste you gain from it on average if it were to be up all of the time? IE, like some people show how a +200 spell damag on use ability is actually worth say 40 spell damage. Is there an equation that shows Skycall is worth X static haste overall so I could compare it to 85 spell damage?
Ancestral and skycall are pretty even since skycall increases mana useage a little I use Ancestral Guidance.
The uptime for skycall has been dicussed in depth alot to the ecent that 2 people wrote sim for it. Go back and look at its uptime. The skycall up time increases with your amount of haste but basically its worth about 65 haste
Did anyone, other than doing rough guesses, double check the potential raid DPS that Searing Totem will cause 3/3 talented versus what the "potential" DPS gain would be from other casters who do benefit from +spell crit? And if so, do we have numbers for Mages, Locks, and Ele Shaman? What is the break point? When should Searing Totem be used instead?
It depends on spec and I"m not an expert on mages and locks but I'd say 2 or more casters in good gear would make it worth using.
Chain Lightning: This ability will no longer jump to secondary targets which are under the effect of crowd-control spells that break on taking damage. i.e. Polymorph, Sap, etc.
The uptime for skycall has been dicussed in depth alot to the ecent that 2 people wrote sim for it. Go back and look at its uptime. The skycall up time increases with your amount of haste but basically its worth about 65 haste
It depends on spec and I"m not an expert on mages and locks but I'd say 2 or more casters in good gear would make it worth using.
I'm not sure where to "Go back" to. I have no basis for fact here...but it still feels like giving up 85 spell damage for a proc haste is a dps nerf... Maybe if I was over 1500 fully buffed I'd do it. But then maybe that is my problem, wanting to see 1500 so bad I'm ignoring what I should do... Not sure there.
Kasi wrote: Mana efficiency doesn't matter for T6 anymore for guilds who have the place on farm. Sorry to say most fights now just don't last long enough anymore. Totem range isn't a huge issue either. ToW would be nice if people don't gear for being hit capped, but most casters do so yeah its just 3% crit really. One thing you forgot to add is the shaman would be casting searing totem on any boss fight. It base hits for 59 avg damage (58 being the average plus 1) It gets 8% from spell damage coefficient, gets 5% from misery, 10% from CoE and 15% from imp scorch. It also gets 15% from a talent in the elemental tree. If armory was up I'd like to actually see my exact spell damage so I didn't have to add this all up. But lets guess 2k spell damage buffed with this setup. At that one gets (160+59)x1.05x1.10x1.15x1.15x1.27(my regular 40% crit rate minus 3% from totem, and the two 5% talents that don't apply to fire damage) = 425 damage, or 213 dps. This is at the cost of one extra gcd every 2 minutes. Lets say that replaces a 2750 average nuke. That takes away 22 dps. Thus using Searing Totem here is a net 191 dps.
I could very well be taking this out of context, but the impression I had is that there is a very realistic DPS wall where Searing Totem is more total raid DPS. Did anyone run hard numbers on this?
I'm going to be respec'ing a bit for a while. I want to get in 1 or 2 more runs in BT/MH as Ele, but I'm practicing with Enhancement again for the moment. Totem twisting is a mother fucker when your shocks are on 5 second cooldowns. Went ahead and shelled out the points for 2 Vengeful weapons the other day. Our Enhancement Shaman (who replaced me initially when I went Elemental) has vanished for the past month, and there's no free top geared ones on our server atm. So at least until we get the majority of Sunwell on farm, I'll be doing Enhancement a lot. Sad Panda Face. The upside is it's cool to run with our melee again and our raid DPS shot up noticably. But it sucks seeing 1500+ DPS dip down into the 1200 DPS margin. I'm sure I'll jump up more once I'm back in the hot seat.
I'm not sure where to "Go back" to. I have no basis for fact here...but it still feels like giving up 85 spell damage for a proc haste is a dps nerf... Maybe if I was over 1500 fully buffed I'd do it. But then maybe that is my problem, wanting to see 1500 so bad I'm ignoring what I should do... Not sure there.
Use the search function we talked about it for like 3 pages in this thread. When the relic was introduced.
I could very well be taking this out of context, but the impression I had is that there is a very realistic DPS wall where Searing Totem is more total raid DPS. Did anyone run hard numbers on this?
There isn't a magic number crit and hit are percentages not static. This means it depends on the spec and dps of the ppl you give it to.
"Why don't they make all CC spells' duration infinite? The caster could cancel it when it's time, it would not break even if the caster dies, only the tank would be able to break it, but first a confirmation window would appear: Are you sure? Yes/No".
Anyways, this will only shorten the time spent with clearing trash. Good changes, even if it's EZ mode. We're not raiding for trashfights after all.
Imo slick caster dps in guilds w/ ele shamans available for raiding come prepared w/ a set of gear 3% hit beneath the cap. My mage roommate used to have enough gear to optimize his hit cap for 70, 71, 72, and 73 mobs (which imo is a bit overboard, but the general idea holds.) Of course it's often the case that there either isn't enough spare gear to support that kind of tweaking and/or the gear with hit is just that much better anyway. Some specs may also just have trouble capping their hit assuming they are trying to stick to reasonable gear.
It doesn't work on PTR right now, though (either that or it's bugged). Tried using it on trash leading to m'uru yesterday (btw., that's one imba fun fight <3) and it jumped over to the nearest sheep without hesitation.
Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.
Imo slick caster dps in guilds w/ ele shamans available for raiding come prepared w/ a set of gear 3% hit beneath the cap. My mage roommate used to have enough gear to optimize his hit cap for 70, 71, 72, and 73 mobs (which imo is a bit overboard, but the general idea holds.) Of course it's often the case that there either isn't enough spare gear to support that kind of tweaking and/or the gear with hit is just that much better anyway. Some specs may also just have trouble capping their hit assuming they are trying to stick to reasonable gear.
As a caster officer of my guild, I do the exact same with my casters. I tell them to come with gear to cap at without me, but also come with gear to get them to 12% (Totem + Draenei Aura). But since iits kinda rare we have more than 6 casters or so in a raid, (Shadow Priests almost never need hit and go to healer groups often) I try to encourage them to socket for more spell damage gems than +hit/damage gems. The ones that listened to me so far have seen a significant damage increase. So if you are counting just 3% crit vs. Searing Totem? Yea, Searing totem wins, however with a little planning on you and your groups part, Totem of Wrath ends up being vastly superior.
Imo slick caster dps in guilds w/ ele shamans available for raiding come prepared w/ a set of gear 3% hit beneath the cap. My mage roommate used to have enough gear to optimize his hit cap for 70, 71, 72, and 73 mobs (which imo is a bit overboard, but the general idea holds.) Of course it's often the case that there either isn't enough spare gear to support that kind of tweaking and/or the gear with hit is just that much better anyway. Some specs may also just have trouble capping their hit assuming they are trying to stick to reasonable gear.
This, simply put, is not feasible when you're talking about a potential of 40-50 raiders, of which there is like around 20ish caster DPS. They'd all have to manage their gear, slotting, and old epics to work in when they can and can not. Which in an of itself would be a MASSIVE pain in the ass.
However that is NOT the kicker. Everyone knows good and well that sometimes, shit happens. Someone ends up OOR of the totems, the shaman dies and does not come back up for some reason, etc. If something goes wrong, then people will be doing less damage than they should be. It's simply not worth it because it's too damn risky. If ToW worked like Battle Shout, where people in your pary got it for a duration of time no matter where they went or if you died it would be different. But it's not, so it's not a good idea.
I did not get to test CL last night. Been running Enhancement to up our Raid DPS since we're short. I know the Druids were Swiping np and not breaking Sheeps at all.
Here is 2 WWS reports from 1 raid night in MH. The first one I got killed 3% into the fight witch means no totems bllodlust of drums for my group. The second one I lived thru the whole fight. If you look at the 2 attempts at group 3 you can get a good Idea what our shaman totems do for the raid as far as DPS.
First (attept 2 on Azgalor): Wow Web Stats
Second (kill of Azgalor): WWS Loading...
You can see the DPS diffrentence of with and with out totems so you can get a rough idea vs Searing totem DPS.
There is roughly a avg 1886 DPS drop from the second to the first for group 3.
1886 avg loss - 1112 avg for Wodi on kill = 774 approx. gain on DPS for the rest of the group.
Here is 2 WWS reports from 1 raid night in MH. The first one I got killed 3% into the fight witch means no totems bllodlust of drums for my group. The second one I lived thru the whole fight. If you look at the 2 attempts at group 3 you can get a good Idea what our shaman totems do for the raid as far as DPS.
First (attept 2 on Azgalor): Wow Web Stats
Second (kill of Azgalor): WWS Loading...
You can see the DPS diffrentence of with and with out totems so you can get a rough idea vs Searing totem DPS.
There is roughly a avg 1886 DPS drop from the second to the first for group 3.
1886 avg loss - 1112 avg for Wodi on kill = 774 approx. gain on DPS for the rest of the group.
The silence lottery and raid dps -> personal dps feedback invalidate these reports.
03/05/08, 11:07 AM
The upside is it's cool to run with our melee again and our raid DPS shot up noticably. But it sucks seeing 1500+ DPS dip down into the 1200 DPS margin. I'm sure I'll jump up more once I'm back in the hot seat.
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