Degruune

Thanks for the info.
Testing it ingame won't be an option for me though (well, maybe PTR's) since I'm still waiting for my first T6 item to drop...

All in all, it's a theoretical spreadsheet at most, which I know will differ from ingame, but it's good to know how to calculate it cause comparisons in theory will still give me a great insight of which stat to go for at which stage.

 

Slager

I'm having some issues with my spell hit rating and getting numerous spell resists (even on non-raid bosses). I am currently 41/20 spec elemental shaman with 65 spell hit (5.15% iirc). When combined with Totem of Wrath I should not be having any resists but I am consistently running ~1.4-1.5% spells fully resisted and another .6-8% partially resisted according to Recount reports for the past week or so of raiding. I'm keeping up on DPS with mages and destro locks but I feel like this is holding me back from breaking into the top on a regular basis. I was curious if there is some math that I left out of my calculations, inherent chance to resist/partial resist, or anything else I can do to remedy these annoying resists. I'm new to ElitistJerks forums so sorry if this isn't where this question belongs.

Armory Link: (usually have Scryer Bloodgem on instead of Riding Crop)
The World of Warcraft Armory

 

Sharama

Don't forget raid bosses have an inherent % resist chance, i also am 41/0/20 and my recount/wws shows about 1% resist overall. With the coming changes to CL (not hitting CC'd Mobs) you should expect to see yourself move up the dps tables. However, please remember you are a support class, any dps you bring to the party is a bonus to the raid

 

Handyhoof

You are hit capped with ToW down. Hit capped however, means 99% chance to hit with spells, coinciding with 1% chance for full resist. 1.4-1.5% full resist is either bad luck on a small sample, or you're not always casting in range of your totem. Partial resists happen, and we can't mitigate those. I'd suggest watching your movement and totem placement (and get a totem timer mod if you don't have one yet), but otherwise, it seems to be "Working as Intended."

 

Daidalos

Here is a copy n paste from

Working Theories of Theorycrafting as of 2.3
I highly advise reading this and searching for questions before asking. I've failed at searching before so I know its easy to do, but most people here have little tolerance for frequently asked questions that are answered in stickied threads.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Slager

Thanks for the help, I missed that part in the initial sticky. Thanks again for the clarification. I guess I can drop some hit rating gems till I get back down to 4% since I'm wasting this extra 1.15% on nothing.

 

everwatch

Revisiting an old topic on WWS Scoreboards.

A number of people told me that this site was inaccurrate. No one told me a definitive reason however that showed why. Made me wonder if they were right after Daidalos and few others used this site as a resource for potential DPS.

I got into MH finally for the first time in almost 2 months. I usually step out because I can't U anything in there. I wanted to go in though to get some WWS numbers for comparison. Rage and Kazrogal are my 2 examples of what goes wrong. I f'ed up on Anertheron and died. >.<


MH Rage to Azgalor.


At Rage my DPS time is 97% and my pres was 99%. I did 1729 DPS or converting to "actual dps" I did 1664 dps. But the boss was not encounted right as he ran in. I forget what they did. If a rogue was almost seen or whatever. They did at least 2+ distracts for a fact to give some healers extra mana time. But if you calculate my actual DPS by the length of the fight (228 seconds) then my actual dps is really: 1562 dps. It should be apparent that there was time the boss was considered in combat, even though not even the MT had encountered the boss yet.

At Kazrogal my DPS time is 99% and my pres was 86%. The MT's DPS time is 100% and his presence was 89%. Obviously I was DPS'ing almost the entire time. But the boss got tied up on NPC's to start and there was the intermitent time before the hunter misdirected him to Vorpalblade. So the time of 190 seconds wasn't even correct. Yet it brings my actual dps down to 1419, while my DPS was 1773 and WWS showed it as supposed to being 1750 dps for the average length.

So my point is this, only trying to get new WWS logs in 2 runs, I already found some fundamental problems showing massive inconsistencies with how the data is sourced. Let alone if I kept looking. While I 100% agree that WWS Scoreboard is a good way to get an overall feel for potential numbers for classes, it is wildly inconsistent and inaccurate for players who do not play in 100% top notch guilds. If a guild doesn't DPS Illidan through demon phase, if they distract bosses coming in at MH, or any other number of possibilities, the data won't necessarily reflect accurate DPS numbers for the length of a fight. The length of the fight will be inaccurate for some reason. I'm not even getting into threat cap issues etc. when considering the indivdual player who is above and beyond say the capacities of the guild they are in.

That being said, with Elemental Shaman being quite likely the lowest % pop base in end game raiding guilds (because most other class roles offer so much more to a raid), it is entirely impossibly to determine at this point and time what the maximum potential of Elemental is for top end raiding. You have to realize that some of the best Ele Shaman won't make it into the "best guilds" due to most won't even let an Ele Shaman come on raids because they offer so little. Further increasing the % gap of T6 Ele Shaman in existence. On my server alone, I am the only fully decked out T6 equivalent shaman. While this may not be the rule, I expect it to not be too far off of an expectation for the majority of servers. One server with 5 T6 decked out Ele shaman is probably a statistical abberation.

I only just got my Shroud of the Highborne and my Skycall Totem. I'm still down one good trinket, Illidan's staff, another Ring of Ancient Know, Flashfire Girdle, and the cloth crafted bracers. That's missing 5 more items, and I just replaced 2 items last night. I should have my Bracers of Nimble Thought tomorrow. I felt I was being greedy to request it to be made, and only finally asked for the HoD's.

Without those pieces, and with no Enhancement Shaman in raid, I'm already breaking into the upper 1700's for DPS (not examing bosses that allow for bonus damage). And if the rest of my DPS'ers in my guild started breaking out the BOOM cannons, shortening the fights, I feel 100% confident that I could breach the 1800 DPS margin for a number of bosses. Maybe more with an Enhance in raid.

While I am in no way saying that a Ele Shaman is on line with a Destro Lock; I am however saying that the gap is nowhere near as large as people imagine. Also, for Ele Shaman, I don't think WWS Scoreboard can be an accurate way to measure the potential for our DPS output.

http://www.skeletonjack.com/

 

everwatch

I read what you wrote. All of it. Read it twice to make sure I understood how you got to your numbers. But, you really have not proven me wrong remotely.

I told you I do not have the mathematical skills in order to prove you wrong or to show you how the numbers come out. I raid in game, and swap out items on different runs in order to see what performs better. It's that simple. And occasionally when it's hard to see something, I bug my guild for raid buffs and head over to Dr. Boom for a while to toy with things.

You could give me some numbers saying Spell Damage is da bomb!! Spell haste is only marginally better!! And I'd still say, "You're wrong." Spell Haste = omfgpwnedjounewbsaucedairyqueenbbq!!!

Swapping to spell haste made me jump from running in the low 1k range to breaking past 1500 with no Enhancement in raid consistently. Whether we're talking trash or bosses, so long as I'm not being a newb and dying (which I do more often than I should , hehehe. I fuck around sometimes trying something new or pushing the threat cap, heh.). Spell Damage to Spell haste = 1:1.2 = wrong. Try it out in game.

That being said, you still need to keep minimums. I'm still sitting at 1350-1400 damage, 40% crit, 10% haste, and 16% hit. There is a point where you sacrifice too much of something. Remember to always keep a balance in mind. Though I'd happily sac off more crit atm for +dmg or +haste. I don't think I'd sac off anymore spell damage though. I've already given up quite a bit recently. I was at 1492 damage before. Now I'm down to about 1380ish or so I think.

http://www.skeletonjack.com/

 

Laupen

Hey, been reading for a long time, now it's finally time to post since I have questions! Apologies if these have been covered elsewhere but I've done my best to do my research first.

Basically, I've had a look at the spreadsheets and I get a little bogged down in them. Also, I'd like a kind of cross between gear calculator and DPS calculator all in one. I started playing around and followed mostly what's been posted here in terms of calculating the theoretical hit, crit and dps for LB spam so far. However, I have a couple of questions about Overload and adding CL into the rotation.

Firstly, I calculate LB DPS from (crit%*avgdmg*2.09)/casttime+((1-crit%)*avgdmg)/casttime where avgdmg is worked out using the base and spell damage from my current gear set - pretty basic. However, since Overload procs on every 5th cast, and does half the damage, is it safe to assume that additional DPS from Overload is exactly 10% of normal LB DPS?

Now adding CL to the rotation... For some reason I can't get my head around how best to calculate this. Should I work out CL DPS as if it is purely a 1.5sec cast in order to find the DPS value as if it was being spammed, then multiply this by 1.5/7 and my LB spam DPS by 6/7 and add them?

Testing this as I write it, I'm getting 1150DPS LB spam (including Overlord) and 1330DPS (including CL & CL Overlord) as single target DPS figures for 1063 dmg, 38.5% crit and hit capped. This is higher than WWS or Recount would suggest I do, but I'm not sure if that's a regular outcome from simulations, due to lag or just non perfect reactions?

Any help would be appreciated, cheers all!

 

everwatch

Theoretical DPS won't ever = real time DPS. Lag, latency, misclicks, dropping totems, movement time, etc... You can find out potentials only, and then work on your personal "mad skillzorz" to get as close to the potential as possible. Pre-2.4 you should calculate CL as a 1.5 second cast regardless of haste due to the GCD. Post 2.4 you should calculate it based upon the cast time including your haste. Don't forget to add in the minimum miss chance on bosses.

Spreadsheets are only confusing for as long as you avoid spending time going through them. Keep an original saved with nothing changed on it. Then start toying with the other version. Change all kinds of crap to see what comes up and read everything. Sometimes as much as 3-5 times. Once you get used to a person's sheet, the rest become easier to interpret. Trial and error.

http://www.skeletonjack.com/

 

Daidalos

Yes you need to understand how a tool works before being able to use it properly. WWS shows you instant dps which has a lot of flaws. WWS scoreboard goes by entire damage done / entire encounter time. This works out better 99% of the time. However, if you distract a boss for 5 mins WWS counts that as the beginning of the encounter and thus it will throw off dps calculations.

There is a forum on the WWS scoreboard site where they will manually parse things on request you might ask them to do this for you if you are really concerned about it. But saying something isn't useful due to one fight mechanic is silly. Yes you need to understand the different approaches different guilds use (unholy frenzy) and its true if you distract a mob WWS (not wwsscoreboard's fault) starts the encounter at that time. So if you don't like the unholy frenzy buffs and you always distract the the boss before engaging look only at fights in BT. Just know how things work and look at things that are comparable. wwsscoreboard.com &bull; View topic - Supremus is a useful tool but you need to understand how it works or you can make drastically erroneous conclusions.

For me its very obvious. Look at all the top caster dps. Look at their averages. Yes some things can skew data but there is nothing that would skew data in favor of locks around the world that wouldn't for an ele shaman not to mention we don't even give our locks boomkin or ele sham and still I haven't seen a single legit parse where a ele shaman even came close to our top lock. Its that simple. If you understand what you are looking at and why its a very useful tool. If you only go by top dps numbers and don't look at the group makeups and buffs and the fight / parse mechanics then no it wouldn't be useful because you wouldn't understand what you were looking at and come to conclusions like rogues out dps locks by 50%-200% or something.

Wow Web Stats: supremus is a good example of a fight where there are no special gimmicks no chain lusts and locks pretty much destroy ele sham from any other parse out there.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Gaguusi

It's funny you should say that, since I never intended to prove you wrong. I actually agree with you and I'm stacking spellhaste until I reach a point where I go OOM because of it. If you use the calculation I posted and reverse it to tell you of which stat you require what amount to get 1% more DPS, spellhaste comes out on top for a very long time.

My current stats are, self-buffed:1267dmg, average 228 haste (using skycall) and 38.77% crit. At this level 1% DPS = 28.84 crit rating = 21.17 spelldmg = 18.05 haste rating (!).

So not only the numbers I came up with show that spellhaste is good, but also it is my opinion that if you can sustain uptime, meaning you don't go OOM, spellhaste is awesome simply due to the fact that all fights have some mobility in them, and when you get a chance to cast, you should cast as much as possible. Spellhaste, again IMO, allows you to squeeze out more damage in the same time.

 

Kasi

So did a little exercise today with my current gear. Basically added up my stats from armory, included consumables and totem and tried to work out how much dps I would get from adding 10 dmg, 10 haste or 10 crit to see which would be more effective. Base stats are 1466 dmg, 68 haste 40% crit. I just went with the crit percentage because in raids all the small buffs like AI/Motw do effect that and its hard to pinpoint it from rating alone. The reason I used 10 instead of 1 was because with my calculations I figured 1 wasn't precise enough to give me differences since I am doing this on a calculator and not a spreadsheet.

Base: 1775 dmg from coefficient
After mods: 1956.94 (after 4t6 and concussion)
After Crit: 1174.16 + 1636 = 2810.16
After LO: 3091.17
Ignore hit (constant for all)
Haste: 68/1577 = 1.0431 = 1.917
After Haste: 3091.17/1.917 = 1612.5 dps

Add 10 spell damage:
1476, 68, 40% crit
Base: 1782.94
1965.69 (after 4t6/concussion)
After Crit: 1179.42 + 1643.317 = 2822.74
After LO: 3105.01
After Haste: 1619.72 dps

Add 10 spell haste:
Base: 1466, 78 haste, 40% crit
Same as first until haste calc.
Haste: 2/1.04946 = 1.906
After Haste: 3091.17/1.906 = 1621.8

Add 10 spell crit: (makes it 40.45% crit)
Base: 1466, 68, 40.45% crit
After Crit: 1956.94x.5955 = 1165.3577 + 1654.41 = 2819.76
After LO: 3101.74 (after LO)
After Haste: 1618 dps

So for summary
1466 dmg, 68 haste, 40% crit

Base: 1612.5
Add 10 dmg: 1619.72
Add 10 Spell Haste: 1621.8
Add 10 spell crit: 1618

Differences:
Dmg: 7.22 (.722 per point of damage)
Haste: 9.3 (.93 per point of haste)
Crit: 5.5 (.55 per point of crit)

So according to this if I work out a ratings for it and normalize spell damage at 1 you'd get 1 per point of damage, .76 per point of crit and 1.288 per point of haste. I think. If you can please go over this rough math and tell me if it works. It was based off the posts a page or 2 earlier here, including 4p t6 and consussion (but not 2p t6 or misery or imp ds)

This would support Bigeasy in that haste is much better than spell damage. However I am not sure how things like the GCD currently not being reduced, the increased factor of latency as you add more haste, and the issue with wasting gcd under heroism with any amount of haste factor to reduce the advantage of haste over spell damage.

 

Kasi

What I'd really like is something like Yo's simulator for enhancement shamans that tell you stat weightings at a given stat distribution. Is the new Rawr project going to be able to do that?

 

Gaguusi

Well, first off if you used my post for your calculations I'd advise you to make sure you used the one there is now, since I screwed up some stuff in the beginning and fixed it after. Just check if you made your calcs after my last edit

The numbers make sense, though.

Personally, I'm ignoring the GCD issue with bloodlust since it's not going to be a problem any more pretty soon. You can also use the haste calculation part of the formula to figure out how haste will affect your GCD.

 

Kasi

Yeah I used the one that is there now. Or was there 30 minutes ago anyway. As for gcd in the new 2.4, I don't figure there is anything to calculate. Your spell haste and heroism will always keep the gcd at the same time that CL casts (unless you get obscene amounts of it) Thus gcd will never be an issue. You will never have to worry about heroism making your spell cast time shorter than the gcd and you will also never have to worry about spell haste in general making CL shorter than the gcd. Both are automatically taken care of.

 

Gaguusi

Actually, with bloodlust/heroism CL might go below the GCD just slightly, since the GCD is capped at 1 sec.

 

Kasi

Yeah. I still plan to just spam LB during heroism though. It hits quite a bit harder with 4p T6 and I don't think the difference in speeds will be enough to make CL worth using, especially since optimal Sunwell gear is going to get us about 300+ spell haste easily.

 

Daidalos

My spread sheet as well as binks already gives stat weights. Eventually I plan on writing a full sim but for now my spreadsheet can dot alot this including dps rotations and latency. Also your numbers don't match what I have. Are you using CSD meta? I'm not sure exactly how you are doing your calculations so I can't tell where we are off. If you want us to review your math please put in each step otherwise all I see is inputs and different output. I only get 1937 for LB hit dmg before LO.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Kasi

Yeah I wasn't able to find Bink's spreadsheet since he took it off his sig. Did some searching and yes looked for it and found it. Issue with his is that it has too much reliance on sta/int. Sta is found on abundance on all elemental shaman gear and int is virtually meaningless for me other than how it contributes to my crit, given that I always have a shadow priest. So when I look at the DEP of the item and half of its worth is from the 17 int on it, that doesn't agree with how I look at things. Now I know your ss is more about absolute damage while Binks is much more from a without a SP sort of thing, so that explains part of it. Even with that the numbers he got were pretty close. On my gear on his ss I get .83 for crit, 1 for dmg and 1.414 for haste.

As for your spreadsheet I am looking at it but have never really been sure on how to get it to work. I take it this is the google doc listed in your link? I went with it, entered my stats and I got this.

Stat weight for crit%-> dmg Stat weight: crit rating -> dmg Stat weight 1 haste%-> dmg Stat weight haste rating-> dmg

20.78 0.940 25.74 1.633
20.10 0.910 24.91 1.581

So I take it this is the calc I should be looking at, which shows haste about 1.58 times as good as spell damage on a 1-1 ratio?

As for my calcs, well here is how I figured it for the base:

1466*.794 + 611 = 1775 damage on LB
1775x1.05(for concussion)x1.05(for 4pt6) = 1956.94 damage.
With 40% crit 60% of your hits are hits so that is .6x1956.94 = 1174.17
Other 40% are crits, which with how the CSD works with our 21 point talent is a 2.09 modifier. Thus this is .4x2.09x1956.94 = 1636.

Add the two together and we get the average damage for LB, including crits. This is 2810.74.

Multiply this by 1.10 for LO and we get 3091.18.

Take 68 haste rating which gives 1.917 average LB.

3091.19/1.917 = 1612.5 dps.

I don't see anywhere obvious where I messed up. Even if one ignored the CSD there and just used a 1.4 multipler because of crit, one would get 2739.7 dmg as the average LB after crit. The difference between the two is about 70 damage. This is not too far off from the value Bink has on his spreadsheet. And the 209% value has been shown with repeated tests to be right, both on the physical and caster version of the meta gem, for classes that have innate 200% crit damage or talented versions of it.

Edit: As for numbers not matching, part of the reason might be in that I include my totem in that spell damage. If you plugged that damage into your SS, you should subtract 85 from it for the totem. But going by what it says on your spreadsheet for what I calculated, it shows yours as 3138 dmg with LO and crit factored in. So a 47 damage difference somewhere. Most likely from something dealing with crit or something.

 

Daidalos

Hm could be due to 99% hit. That woudn't put it exactly matching but it would be pretty close.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

everwatch

Perhaps if you read all of my post?

I never said Ele > Lock. In fact I said, "While I am in no way saying that a Ele Shaman is on line with a Destro Lock..." You cannot say that there is a large sample of Ele Shaman out there in top end gear. You can't because there are not a ton of them out there in full T6 equivalent gear. I've looked. A lot. They're rare as hell. I said it's impossible to determine their cap correctly. Due to the small quantity of them available, and how few of them actually would use WWS Scoreboard, there is not a current accurate method at hand to measure their potential in a real raid environment.

WWS Scoreboard has inconsistencies. I was trying to use it in order to understand it. Now that I do, I don't have any further need for it to be perfectly honest with you. You only prove my point that some individual players may not rate even though they would in another scenario. You guys talk about testing, and it's the same principle. You need a large test sample in order to gather accurate data. There are simply not enough full T6 level Ele Shaman out there to show an accurate representation of their potential output.

I've shown it's possible to breach 1700's, without an Enhance in raid and without my personal raid being optimal. Assuming I'm not the best equipped or skilled player (which I'd assume should be taken for granted-I'm not that cocky or egotistical), then that means Ele Shaman can do more.

Give them the best gear in slot (which there are plenty of players by now who have all best in slot, ie Rogues/Locks on WWS Scoreboard), an Enhance in raid, and a solid guild that pumps out very high DPS, and I think it far more likely to see that Ele Shaman in the 1900's for DPS. They are simply not enough of them out there to know. Looking at all of the top caster DPS doesn't help. There is not enough Ele's to get a good sample for comparison. Same for Boomkin for that matter.

I hardly would call Supremus a good trial fight. It can require all together too much movement if Supremus picks an odd selection of targets.

http://www.skeletonjack.com/

 

Kasi

DPS numbers like 1900 for shamans are nice, but it is just a function of boss fights going shorter. Sure we can get a 1900 dps on a boss. I believe it is capable with a shorter fight with high bloodlust/drums/trinket uptime. But who cares? Mages and warlocks in those types of fights are already capable of 2300-2400 dps. I've always kept up with the mage TC threads and Manly (from EJ) has posted that he has hit 2350+ on Teron with suboptimal play (and no crazy heroism stacking or DM faire buffs). I showed this a couple weeks back in this thread with some math easily done from my raid. We can not match the numbers that a decked out lock or mage can push out. This is almost entirely due to raid multipliers. We only get misery and stormstrike. Mages get CoE, Scorch debuff and misery. Locks get SW, misery, Imp SB and COS. Not to mention our damage multipliers like concussion and LO don't match up well against Shadow and Flame or the myriad of Fire talents.

There is enough elemental shamans out there to get a good comparison. Quite enough. We just don't do as much damage. Now when you factor in our group buffs, we might bring more dps when you factor in totems and heroism, and thats why we are probably where we are. I'd love to have CoE and it would make sense for me to have CoE, but with an extra 10% dps I could see myself pushing 2k a lot. And more on shorter fights. And that would likely be too close to other caster dps when you factor in our buffs.

I think you and me are in a similar situation. We do very well in dps in our guilds. We're both often in the top 3-4. I don't think for me it is an indicator that my class is that powerful. I feel it is that I'm outplaying others that I play with, or am more optimally specced. I try harder, consumable more, and get good results. But if I was a warlock, I would utterly demolish the damage meters if I put the same effort in. An interesting exercise would be to post some numbers of the avg LB, SB, fireball, frostbolt, etc from a full T6 character given standard raid buffs/debuffs. I think that alone would show why ele shaman damage just doesn't compare.

And this doesn't even bring into factor hunters and rogues. Last week on rage, I had full dps time, no moving, got my rotation fine, had right on my normal crit rate (40%) and got 1660 dps on the fight with no enhancement shaman or boomkin, just a sp. Every hunter and rogue in the raid beat me, anywhere from 30 dps to 200 dps. And we don't even use COR, which would push that even more. You can say that sure our totems make up that difference, but the gist is, so does a resto shamans. And they are arguably the strongest healer in raids now. This is why you see many guilds not using ele shamans, because a 3% crit/hit bonus doesn't outweigh the hundreds of dps that a warlock or mage can gain over us.

 

everwatch

I will still strongly disagree about there being a large enough sample base to show solidly what Ele is fully capable of. There are very few Ele Shaman on the top numbers on WWS Scoreboard, and we can see from WWS's and from just theorycrafting that an Ele Shaman can hit higher numbers than are up there. The population base is low as well. I'm not convinced the sample group is large enough to rule out inconsistencies and variables due to guilds, players, etc...

Again, I'm *not* saying we're on par with other classes. Again, I'm *not* saying that our totems make us worthwhile. If you remember one of my previous posts I basically pointed out how even a Resto Shaman brings more to the table than we do for totems...sigh. So let me start over with this.

When I first started raiding on my shaman I was Enhancement. I found out about the thread for them on EJ, and read it and learned a crap ton. But then I started finding out about new players who would read these threads to determine which toon they wanted to become their main. I found out about Raid Leaders and Guild Masters reading these threads to determine what they would and would not use in raids. And they also set benchmarks based upon what they've read in here. The list goes on for the various reasons why people read these threads. But one thing holds true. These EJ threads have a larger impact upon end game raiders than probably any other internet source available.

It isn't important to prove I can do x thing, or I'm as good a x toon. It is important however to make sure that accurate information is obvious and available to others, especially those who do not play Ele Shaman. If I can ram it down someone's thick skull that an Ele Shaman can reach 1700-1900 DPS, and that gets them a spot in some guild or on raids, just because someone stopped being close minded and realized they can bring enough to the table, then I scored a win for me. That would make my day if I got just even one GM to let a shaman take an Ele raid slot in their guild becuase they saw that the level of DPS they can output was more then enough to accept them.

Fact is most people downplay what an Ele can do. Even Ele Shaman. I'm not gonna downplay it. I'm gonna do my best to figure out how much we can do, and throw it out there.


Sidesteppin'...


All you math ninja motherfuckers out there: Kasi, Daid, Bink, and more...
Thanks. You make my life a million times easier. I just have to apply the math you guys work out to my in game play and can easily figure things out from there.

http://www.skeletonjack.com/

 

Kasi

Well I don't think you really need a large amount of elemental shamans out there to really show what we're capable of. Our class is extremely simple to play. Only class that is likely simpler is a desto lock. Refresh totems, pump out spells as fast as you can, and do everything good a caster should do regarding spell uptime and minimizing movement. Once you get rid of the things that are common between all casters than you can just really look at 2 things. The dps of the spells and the mana consumption they cost. The second for shamans imo is completely trivialized by a shadow priest.

Now 1550-1700 dps is what I feel is sustainable on a longer fight where heroism doesn't dominate everything due to short fight duration. If you get a bit lucky with crits, that can go a bit higher. Shorter fights then yes our dps can go up. Smart use of enhancement shamans can also do the same. Whether that is good enough for guilds is only something each individual guild can answer.