Great findings! I was looking for an analysis very similar to this and was quite surprised to find it so close to the end of the thread. I have a perhaps silly question, how can I convert the DPS rating of the LC to compare it to something like the Icon of the Silver Crescent, or any other trinket. More so to find out when/if the LC becomes an inferior trinket when I reach a certain spell haste.
I'm looking at my dps calcualtions for TLC and its not matching whats been listed.
Okay fixed the crit problem. Thanks for pointing that out.
I dont full match your numbers Daidalos but I am just 0.1-0.2 below yours.
New general slopes for %crit is 0.94 dps per % crit.
At 30% crit 1% haste increase TLC by 0.41
At 33% crit 1% haste increases TLC by 0.45
At 36% crit 1% haste increases TLC by 0.49
At 40% crit 1% haste increases TLC by 0.53
At 50% crit 1% haste increases TLC by 0.58
The above slope is not linear but within +/- 0.1 from no haste to 20% haste.
I did some more tables to see how crit effects TLC with haste at 50, 100, 150, and 200.
At 50 Haste 1% crit increase TLC by 0.98
At 100 Haste 1% crit increase TLC by 1.00
At 150 Haste 1% crit increase TLC by 1.04
At 200 Haste 1% crit increase TLC by 1.08
It still holds true that dropping crit for haste will reduce your TLC dps because the trade off is about -1.0 for loosing crit and only +0.4 to +0.6 for haste.
What i did for the 2.5sec cool down was assumed that it took a minimum of 2 spell casts to get another proc. So I set it up to be 1 spell cast time + the time it would take to get a crit based on spell speed and crit chance starting from scratch.
First cast: ((2sec-(((Haste/15.76)/100)*2sec). this is 2.0 if no haste and goes down from there.
Then I add: ((1/Crit)*(2sec-(((Haste/15.76)/100)*2sec)). This is the average time it takes to get a crit with a spell cast speed that varies by haste.
I take the the sum of the above and multiply by three to get the time to get a TLC discharge. I then divide that by the average damage of a TLC discharge based on the players crit (now with a 150% bonus).
It would take an average cast time of less than 1.25 sec for 2 casts to be below the internal cool down so I am assuming all double casts will be greater than 2.5 secs. This isn't always true. That just made me think and i did the math for a LB/CL 2 cast combo and with a haste value of 450 or greater the double casts drop below 2.5sec. Percentage wise this is 28.72%. Since heroism is 20% it only takes 137 haste value with heroism popped to cause you to add time to the TLC charge gain.
Is anyone else having an "Emperor's New Clothes" moment about Quag's Eye? I honestly can't believe how the trinket could give you as much DPS as has been discussed here recently in ideal situations, let alone in a raid, where the short proc could so easily be wasted.
This week I have actually produced 2 hours worth of trinket test data on Dr. Boom. where I have tried to pull out the best combination from the Eye, TLC, Sextant and DMC:C. The problem is that the RNG refuses to play ball. I can see ~2% DPS difference from some trinket combo's, but when the difference in crit is ~5% its hard to read much into it. This leaves us back with the theorycrafting ofc, which where trinkets are concerned seems less than complete.
Anyway, I can post the summary of the test data here if anyone would be interested.
Is anyone else having an "Emperor's New Clothes" moment about Quag's Eye? I honestly can't believe how the trinket could give you as much DPS as has been discussed here recently in ideal situations, let alone in a raid, where the short proc could so easily be wasted.
This week I have actually produced 2 hours worth of trinket test data on Dr. Boom. where I have tried to pull out the best combination from the Eye, TLC, Sextant and DMC:C. The problem is that the RNG refuses to play ball. I can see ~2% DPS difference from some trinket combo's, but when the difference in crit is ~5% its hard to read much into it. This leaves us back with the theorycrafting ofc, which where trinkets are concerned seems less than complete.
Anyway, I can post the summary of the test data here if anyone would be interested.
Please do. More data is always nice even if it isn't conclusive on its own.
What I've noticed is there is a very small population of shamans that have access to almost anything they want, and which way they end up stacking gear. With my current gear I can easily run in the 1900-2k DPS on fights like Brutallus... Sometimes alot higher depending on crits...
I would very much be interested in seeing your WWS parses for brut. Perhaps I am doing something wrong but with nearly 300 more spell damage, and more haste then you, I am lucky to break 1900average dps on brut (and by average I do not mean some once in a month luck shinning on me 60% crit rate run). So I would assume you either are in a massivly stacked group, getting multiple hero's +moonkin + a 4 person drum rotation, or I need to reevalute how I am doing that fight.
I would very much be interested in seeing your WWS parses for brut. Perhaps I am doing something wrong but with nearly 300 more spell damage, and more haste then you, I am lucky to break 1900average dps on brut (and by average I do not mean some once in a month luck shinning on me 60% crit rate run). So I would assume you either are in a massivly stacked group, getting multiple hero's +moonkin + a 4 person drum rotation, or I need to reevalute how I am doing that fight.
I too would be interested in seeing these WWS parses. My average range is 1850-1900 on that fight (assuming I don't get gayed by windserpents taking my stormstrike charges) and I too have nearly 250 more spell damage than you and significantly more haste.
There should obviously be a difference in crit rates due to the Sextant being used in some combo's and not others, but it shouldn't be as high as it is. Damn random numbers being random
I did less testing of Quag's Eye than the other trinkets, as it is well down in my estimations, however it didn't do too bad. I would have carried on, but I could see I could spend days trying to get data with a more representative crit rate.
Disclaimer: My guild is 4/9 BT and 4/5 MH - I have about all the gear I need from the bosses we have downed, but I am obviously not Sunwell geared. Armory gives details ofc.
If you get some time, using the same parameters, I'd love to see what you come up with for a Quag's + DMC: C combination since, in theory, it would be combining the haste with the most consistent +damage out of the four trinkets. (if that makes any sense)
Is anyone else having an "Emperor's New Clothes" moment about Quag's Eye? I honestly can't believe how the trinket could give you as much DPS as has been discussed here recently in ideal situations, let alone in a raid, where the short proc could so easily be wasted.
This week I have actually produced 2 hours worth of trinket test data on Dr. Boom. where I have tried to pull out the best combination from the Eye, TLC, Sextant and DMC:C. The problem is that the RNG refuses to play ball. I can see ~2% DPS difference from some trinket combo's, but when the difference in crit is ~5% its hard to read much into it. This leaves us back with the theorycrafting ofc, which where trinkets are concerned seems less than complete.
Anyway, I can post the summary of the test data here if anyone would be interested.
The biggest thing I'm interested in is confirming the cooldown on Quag's haste buff. I've seen reports of anything from 33 seconds to 50+, so getting a more accurate cooldown would be useful for modelling said proc.
Originally Posted by Buanna
Is this still the appropriate thread to report bugs in Shamstats?
Given that I'm not actually maintaining that anymore, there isn't much point in reporting bugs in it.
Once I've released a final version of SEIC, then you can report bugs.
Ive read carefully throught the whole elemental shop thread. And i got a few question i would like to ask.
first of all im playing an troll shaman. My guild is currently trying brutallus and we got him down the other day.
Ive seed alot WWS of elemental shamans with gear compareable to mine doing nearly 2k dps. Most of them where doing around 1.8k-1.9k. On the best brutallus trys I only got 1.6k. Am I doing something wrong?
Or does my gear suck and/or the sockets im using. And What am I doint wrong?
Wow Web Stats Of the best Brutallus Try we got so far.
Usually my group setup is. 2 locks a balance druid and a Resto Shaman. So im using alot Manapotions. The brutallus trys that day where with a Mage instead of an Balance druid.
Should I sockel more Haste gear? Or is the Way Im sockeling at the moment ok?
Ive read carefully throught the whole elemental shop thread. And i got a few question i would like to ask.
first of all im playing an troll shaman. My guild is currently trying brutallus and we got him down the other day.
Ive seed alot WWS of elemental shamans with gear compareable to mine doing nearly 2k dps. Most of them where doing around 1.8k-1.9k. On the best brutallus trys I only got 1.6k. Am I doing something wrong?
Or does my gear suck and/or the sockets im using. And What am I doint wrong?
Wow Web Stats Of the best Brutallus Try we got so far.
Usually my group setup is. 2 locks a balance druid and a Resto Shaman. So im using alot Manapotions. The brutallus trys that day where with a Mage instead of an Balance druid.
Should I sockel more Haste gear? Or is the Way Im sockeling at the moment ok?
best regards
Never put in pure crit gems. For yellow slots either Potent if you want to avoid Haste (which I advise against) or Reckless pyres.
The Nexus-Horn is just a weak trinket at anything past T4 level, let alone Sunwell.
I am really not convinced about your neck at all. I have only seen limited number crunching on it, but my guess is that even a S3 Honor neck would be better, plus you should also have/have had access to Kael, RoS necks etc.
As a general rule you will gain a lot by swapping haste for crit on a point-for-point basis, especially at your gear level.
Hope that helps a little, I am sure some people with Brut experience will do a much better job of pulling apart your WWS than I could.
From the few WWS I've seen the shamans doing 2k usually have 2 enhancements and no wind serphents, while you have 1 enhancement and 2 wind serphents taking away a lot of your personal damage.
Don't socket with +10/+12 crit gems. Your +damage is lower than mine and i'm wearing 2 pieces of tier 4 still.
Hat: Meta + Purple = good
Shoulders: Purple Shadowsong + Wreckless Pyrestone
Chest: 3x Spinnel
Wrist: Wreckless Pyrestone
Gloves: Spell Penetration in ancient shadowmoon makes baby jesus cry. 2x spinnel
Pants: Pyrestone
Boots: 2x Spinnel and boars speed
Ive read carefully throught the whole elemental shop thread. And i got a few question i would like to ask.
first of all im playing an troll shaman. My guild is currently trying brutallus and we got him down the other day.
Ive seed alot WWS of elemental shamans with gear compareable to mine doing nearly 2k dps. Most of them where doing around 1.8k-1.9k. On the best brutallus trys I only got 1.6k. Am I doing something wrong?
Or does my gear suck and/or the sockets im using. And What am I doint wrong?
Wow Web Stats Of the best Brutallus Try we got so far.
Usually my group setup is. 2 locks a balance druid and a Resto Shaman. So im using alot Manapotions. The brutallus trys that day where with a Mage instead of an Balance druid.
Should I sockel more Haste gear? Or is the Way Im sockeling at the moment ok?
best regards
I've noticed a very large fluctuation in my dps on Brut, ranging from 1600 to 2200dps, usually avaraging out between 1900 and 2000. I still suck extremely at doing the amount of crits I should actually be doing.
You can check crit % luck or lack of luck / burns, these two factors should be the big dps differences if you have a steady rotation.
Checking your last try, 1600 with 2 bloodlusts and 5 drums seems a tad low for your gear.
Do you use a cast sequence macro or manually mash CL on it's CD?
Also 57 bolts and 15 CL casts seems low for 5 minutes 51 seconds figth duration.
I don't know how you handle burns, with 2 burns there should be some dps downtime , but yours seems un-usually large.
The biggest thing I'm interested in is confirming the cooldown on Quag's haste buff. I've seen reports of anything from 33 seconds to 50+, so getting a more accurate cooldown would be useful for modelling said proc.
Here's abit of "real raid" data on the quag.
Brut #1 - 239 seconds / 5 procs ~ 1.25 ppm
Brut #2 - 302 seconds / 6 Procs ~ 1.2 ppm (I did get burn 3 times though so moved alot)
Felmyst #1 - 230 seconds / 5 Procs ~ 1.3 ppm
Felmyst #2 - 435 seconds / 9 Procs ~ 1.25 ppm
Rage #1 - 106 seconds / 2 Procs ~ 1.13 ppm
Those were all stand and chain cast, no interrupts and minor pushbacks. It easily procs atleast once a minute, I've noticed a definite DPS gain when I switched from TLC to Quag's, the 37 spell dmg on the trinket really can't be overlooked either.
Ive read carefully throught the whole elemental shop thread. And i got a few question i would like to ask.
first of all im playing an troll shaman. My guild is currently trying brutallus and we got him down the other day.
Ive seed alot WWS of elemental shamans with gear compareable to mine doing nearly 2k dps. Most of them where doing around 1.8k-1.9k. On the best brutallus trys I only got 1.6k. Am I doing something wrong?
Or does my gear suck and/or the sockets im using. And What am I doint wrong?
Wow Web Stats Of the best Brutallus Try we got so far.
Usually my group setup is. 2 locks a balance druid and a Resto Shaman. So im using alot Manapotions. The brutallus trys that day where with a Mage instead of an Balance druid.
Should I sockel more Haste gear? Or is the Way Im sockeling at the moment ok?
best regards
Another couple things to keep in mind is you're Mana Potioning rather than Destruction Potioning like probably every other Elemental Shaman you've looked at. I personally can make it through Brutallus doing nothing but Destro Pots every 2 minutes and end the fight down 1000 mana because of the Shadow Priest in my group.
Another thing you might consider, and I realize it's not major, but don't waste a global on totemic recall, just drop your new totems. Chances are you're going to have to drop totems 3 times in the fight. 3 Globals doesn't sound like much but it is 3 lightning bolts.
All tests done in ~115 sec bursts, or until OOM with ToW and WoA up. No BL, EM or any other buffs or consumables used.
"DATAZ"
"Analysis"
Disclaimer: My guild is 4/9 BT and 4/5 MH - I have about all the gear I need from the bosses we have downed, but I am obviously not Sunwell geared. Armory gives details ofc.
What rotation did you use in your testing? If you used chain lightning, did you remove the dps from the jumps to the little bomb guys?
If I'm not mistaken, chain lightning with multiple targets available (little bomb dudes) will skew TLC since it can get more charges faster.
Pure LB spam, on account of being intelligent enough to realise the data is skewed by CL, and too lazy to manually edit it out. Hopefully its still fairly representative, seeing as CL is often dropped due to choice/mana probs/boss type/haste stacking etc.
Brut #1 - 239 seconds / 5 procs ~ 1.25 ppm
Brut #2 - 302 seconds / 6 Procs ~ 1.2 ppm (I did get burn 3 times though so moved alot)
Felmyst #1 - 230 seconds / 5 Procs ~ 1.3 ppm
Felmyst #2 - 435 seconds / 9 Procs ~ 1.25 ppm
Rage #1 - 106 seconds / 2 Procs ~ 1.13 ppm
Those were all stand and chain cast, no interrupts and minor pushbacks. It easily procs atleast once a minute, I've noticed a definite DPS gain when I switched from TLC to Quag's, the 37 spell dmg on the trinket really can't be overlooked either.
Fits in with the 54 second estimate from others, which suggests a 45 second cooldiwn and then the 10% chance to proc after that.
ive replaced a few gems with spellhaste/spelldmg and spelldmg gems. on monday well try brutallus again.
i hope that my dps will go up. Sadly i cant get a shadowpriest in my group but a Balance druid, so i will keep on
using mana potions instead of destro.
im not using a castsequence macro im just pressing cl when the cd is ready.
Originally Posted by Mmootimus
The Nexus-Horn is just a weak trinket at anything past T4 level, let alone Sunwell.
sadly i dont have a better trinket then that one. Im trying to get Skull or/and Karathress trinket.
04/21/08, 4:03 PM
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