The One Stop Elemental Shop - Page 69

RK · 04/25/08, 9:14 AM

I still have the Nexus Horn and Sextant and I've killed Illidan. You don't want to know how many times I've killed Illhoof (and more recently Malacrass) without any luck. I may just have to upgrade direct to the Skull at this rate.

Chim · 04/25/08, 1:14 PM

Erm, if you are stuck with Nexus horn and Sextant, why not get icon of the silver crescent?

I have never had luck with trinkets, I use icon and TLC, and yet my guild is on Felmyst. We've had about 8 or so Illidan kills, no skull yet, which means still about 12 casters trying to get their hands on it, I run ZA pretty much every reset, have only seen Shrunken head drop once and I lost the roll to an affliction warlock.

I dare say I may well be using these 2 pre-25 man trinkets all the way through Sunwell.

Starbuk · 04/26/08, 1:31 AM

Where can i download the most recent iteration of Binks spreadsheet?

Incidentally, this is the highest Brutalis dps Ive seen to date done by an elemental shaman at 2.1lk. No cheap gimmicks either such as multiple heroisms or lucky >%50 crits.

Wow Web Stats

Bulger · 04/26/08, 2:42 AM

Originally Posted by Starbuk

No cheap gimmicks either such as multiple heroisms or lucky >%50 crits.

Wow Web Stats

Khromes numbers are very good! Drums of Battle x10 is not a cheap gimmick just not something all raid groups have available. It is a large amount of dmg increase and I might have to lvl Lwing soon for it. It makes me want to make all my casters go LWing also :P My best dps so far is 1900ish with 2 hero's 0 Drums

but glad to see big numbers from other shammys

Mirranda · 04/26/08, 4:03 AM

Originally Posted by Starbuk

Where can i download the most recent iteration of Binks spreadsheet?

Incidentally, this is the highest Brutalis dps Ive seen to date done by an elemental shaman at 2.1lk. No cheap gimmicks either such as multiple heroisms or lucky >%50 crits.

Wow Web Stats

Good numbers, but hard to attain for most.

He's got the most stacked group he can possibly have, save a BM hunter.

4 Drum Users in his group, Skull of Gul'dan, Moonkin, Shadow Priest. Don't know how much more stacked it can be. But again, I'm not saying that's bad, I'm just saying for most raids/shamans that's not a feasible thing to pull.

Nizari · 04/26/08, 8:37 AM

What trinkets does Khrome use?

ruizAw · 04/26/08, 3:10 PM

The World of Warcraft Armory

Crusade (why not Hex?) and Skull. And Staff

mader · 04/26/08, 5:08 PM

Originally Posted by ruizAw

The World of Warcraft Armory

Crusade (why not Hex?) and Skull. And Staff

he doesn't use hex because we don't have much luck with getting them to drop.

KrietoR · 04/26/08, 7:49 PM

371 spellhaste its just lol

i guess he just uses the LB spam instead of a CL rotation, but still amazing, best elemental shaman around

Moshne · 04/26/08, 7:57 PM

371 isn't enough haste to drop CL out of the rotation, and you can see that he hasn't from his Brutallus parse. that would drop LB to about 1.62, and CL to 1.21. Its a gear setup most of us will end up towards as we get more and more haste gear and gem for it.

Bulger · 04/28/08, 2:42 AM

Nothing really special about it, stand and zerg Pov but here's one of our last Brutallus Kills videos(Elemental shaman Pov). 1856 dps 2 hero's 0 drums. I like seeing other shaman setups/dps so I hope mines barable :P Gonna up the Quality of the next recordings to get alittle better resolution but the DL should be decent. Hoping to get a resto and enhance shaman Pov for Multiple Povs in future videos.

Warcraft Movies
Filefront Streaming

I suggest Downloading it if you want to see the dmg numbers, I use a large screen and small Numbers :/

Mirranda · 04/28/08, 7:03 AM

Originally Posted by Bulger

Nothing really special about it, stand and zerg Pov but here's one of our last Brutallus Kills videos(Elemental shaman Pov). 1856 dps 2 hero's 0 drums. I like seeing other shaman setups/dps so I hope mines barable :P Gonna up the Quality of the next recordings to get alittle better resolution but the DL should be decent. Hoping to get a resto and enhance shaman Pov for Multiple Povs in future videos.

Warcraft Movies
Filefront Streaming

I suggest Downloading it if you want to see the dmg numbers, I use a large screen and small Numbers :/

Watched your video, good quality btw.

I'd like to point out a few things that if you were to rewatch your video for yourself, you can actually improve your dps quite a bit. First off I noticed you'd "tunnel vision" so to speak, and you'd completely drop CL out of your rotation. You went for over a minute without throwing a single CL when you had >90% mana. Second, you were terrible with your timers, didn't use them every 2 minutes, nor during your heroism(s). It also looked like you used both of your heroisms consecutively and both above 20%. At least one should be used below 20% for the mages, and the other one idealy would be used 3 minutes prior for the mages to be able to stack all of their 3min cd's with it (actually we do 4min earlier so that their third round of 2mins are up, and they save the 3mins for that mark).

For you personally, getting something other than an alchemist stone for your trinket (as you're not mana potioning, so you're gaining no benefit other than the passive damage), using timers every 2 minutes or at better stacked intervals (i.e. during bloodlust) and keeping up on your CL rotation (either 3/1 or 4/1, not sure how much haste you have) would be the biggest boosts for your personal dps.

That's my critique, but impressive dps none the less. If you'd done all of the above, you probably could have pulled 1950ish.

GL on future kills!

Bulger · 04/28/08, 1:45 PM

TY for the criticism

, I will admit I got lazy on the kill video with the 4:1 rotation and watching this video 500 times while editing I wanted to kick myself every time but it was our 29th pull of the night and I think our 2nd kill(2nd kill hangover ftl). We have been using heroism at around 60% (2nd round of trinkets for our group) and the 2nd at 20% for magecute. I used my heroism on the zoom in of the bosses health at 20% which is when i use my hero 95% of the time. As far as I can tell the hero pops were right on is there a way to make this more efficent? If you care I did hit 1950 dps on this weeks kill and I think watching my video over and over burnt the 4:1 rotation in my brain, about a 100 dps increase (120haste in elemental gear, spec'd resto atm for twins learning).

Honestly trinkets have been my crutch since hitting 70. I am next in line for the skull but we dont go back to BT unless all the new content is clear and I have yet to see a shrunken head drop even though I run ZA almost every week (every CD pre sunwell). I have seen alot of us on this forum with the same problem

.

This is something I have been testing and concidering but havent made the plung is would it be beneficial and worth it to drop the alch stone(drop alch all together) Pick up L/wing for drums and use quags eye/icon for trinkets. This was the plan pre Sunwell but no skulls dropped and I have been left in a bind of what should I do with 2 kinda crap trinkets? Really a skull or a shrunken head would make this a very easy decision.

Ty for all your help

GoG · 04/28/08, 2:59 PM

I thought we were still under the impression that any CL in a rotation was a mistake because of some unknown issue with the internal spell queue. Has this now been debunked?

Praxagora · 04/28/08, 3:28 PM

Hey Bink, I have a question about your SEIC Beta 2. I'm not quite sure how my +dmg is calculated, but it just seems to be off. In game I have 1022 + 85 from the epic totem, so that makes it 1,107, but on the sheet it says I have a total of 1,197? There are a couple items off by a couple +dmg; like my Skyshatter Shoulders which I have socketed with 2 crimson spinels and enchanted with the Greater Inscription which totals 82+ dmg, but in your sheet it gives it 88+ dmg :\ Skyshatter gauntlets are also off by a couple of damage points. Is this intended? Is there some calculation in there that I'm not understanding that should make it those values? Sextant is also given +38 damage, why is that? If I add up all my +dmg totals on your sheet and subtract the point discrepancies and the sextant +dmg, I arrive at the actual +dmg that it shows on my paperdoll in-game. And even if I do add up the sextant +dmg and the off dmg points from the 2 skyshatter items, it only gives me 1,153, still off from the 1,197. Only thing that comes to mind is that the +5% added LB dmg t6 bonus is being calculated in there somehow. Sorry for all the questions, I'm just a bit confused

Bulger · 04/28/08, 3:40 PM

I could be wrong but I think it gives a dmg value for things like crit/haste/int/buffs/procs

Shkarn · 04/28/08, 3:55 PM

It may also give +damage values based on your race (for example, as an Orc, Blood Fury is given a +dam value that's added in).

• Daler · 04/28/08, 4:05 PM

There's a separate thread for all things SEIC related, located here.

Shaftoe · 04/28/08, 4:08 PM

Originally Posted by GoG

I thought we were still under the impression that any CL in a rotation was a mistake because of some unknown issue with the internal spell queue. Has this now been debunked?

I have not seen any noticible delay & this may differ based off peoples connections.

Sitting at 129 (8% haste)/~1120 SD/~23% Crit -I experience a DPS loss of roughly 100 by completely removing CL. While lusted I only LB spam and do get some "clipping" from using CL at those haste levels.

Our guild is rare that we run 2 Elemental shaman at times, I am partial to stacking haste using a rough 4/1 rotation and our other shaman is so far un-convinced of haste until she gets SPlateau level gear and uses a 3/1 high SD/Crit build. I can watch her pull ahead of me if I am only straight LB spamming; if I mix in CL I usually stay ahead on effective dps.

Hopefully I will be able to post some WWS's for comparison shortly (get stuck running as resto alot).

Mirranda · 04/28/08, 5:52 PM

Originally Posted by GoG

I thought we were still under the impression that any CL in a rotation was a mistake because of some unknown issue with the internal spell queue. Has this now been debunked?

The thought was that a CL LO would reset the CD on CL. This has been proven to be false.

GoG · 04/28/08, 6:31 PM

Mirranda, I was under the impression that there is some unknown problem with casting times and intervals making CL less appealing. The initial thought was that it might have been related to LO, but as you said that was found to not be the case. This, however, does not answer why there are still some oddities with the cast times. Here's a quote from Binkenstein about the issue

"Ok, I've done some testing, looked at the logs, and I do not think that overloads are resetting the cooldown.

So why did I get a damage increase by going to LB spam from 3/1?
I think it has something to do with the spell "queue" and how it interacts with spells on cooldown.

If we can only queue up a spell that is not on cooldown, it may be that CL can't be "queued" with a perfect 6 second LB "set". Which means we'd want to be casting LB as the cooldown comes up, preferably 0.5-1 second before hand, to "queue" it, and reduce lag/reaction delays. This means that a 3/1 rotation would probably be less damage than LB spam, but a 4/1 would not be affected until you start hitting around 360 haste."

GoG · 04/28/08, 7:24 PM

So I'm new to all this elemental stuff. I was resto for years and have made the switch over cause the guild would like to have one. I'm trying to learn all the information I can so I've been researching a lot of the information available in this forum. This has lead me to some interesting questions (to me anyway.)

One, I looked over that Khrome guy's WWS posted earlier. I noticed that in his 6 minute Brutallus kill he had 121 lightning bolt hits and 19 chain hits. Now completely unhasted (which we know he's not) that's only 271 seconds of casting, 90 seconds shy of the 361 he was in combat. Now I understand that the has totems to restomp, bloodlust and probably 2-3 drum activations thrown in. Also, he gets burn in there. However, that's still 90 seconds and that's not taking into account haste. This also leads me into another question. How does WWS treat lightning overload procs? I would assume from my own peeking at the logs that it would treat it as a small bolt but a bolt nonetheless. This would mean that of the 121 lbolt hits Khrome has, 20 of them are overload mini bolts. If that is true there's another 40 seconds of unaccounted for time.

Second, and this is related to overload again. I was trying to look into omen and I was left to wonder is omen properly discounting the threat generated by the overload procs? I couldn't find any code to suggest it was treating the mini bolt different from a big bolt.

Mox · 04/28/08, 7:28 PM

On WWS logs, the "Hits" don't include crits it's just normal, you need to manually add them in.

He had 121 hits and 98 crits.

Mirranda · 04/28/08, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by GoG

Mirranda, I was under the impression that there is some unknown problem with casting times and intervals making CL less appealing. The initial thought was that it might have been related to LO, but as you said that was found to not be the case. This, however, does not answer why there are still some oddities with the cast times. Here's a quote from Binkenstein about the issue

"Ok, I've done some testing, looked at the logs, and I do not think that overloads are resetting the cooldown.

So why did I get a damage increase by going to LB spam from 3/1?
I think it has something to do with the spell "queue" and how it interacts with spells on cooldown.

If we can only queue up a spell that is not on cooldown, it may be that CL can't be "queued" with a perfect 6 second LB "set". Which means we'd want to be casting LB as the cooldown comes up, preferably 0.5-1 second before hand, to "queue" it, and reduce lag/reaction delays. This means that a 3/1 rotation would probably be less damage than LB spam, but a 4/1 would not be affected until you start hitting around 360 haste."

Ah, good call, I had forgotten about that. I'm used to gearing it around my gear, in which I have a 4/1 natural rotation due to my gear's spell haste. And the way I choose to itemize at endgame, I'll end up only at 315 spell haste, so I won't be high enough to have issues with it doing that with a 4/1 rotation.

Originally Posted by GoG

Second, and this is related to overload again. I was trying to look into omen and I was left to wonder is omen properly discounting the threat generated by the overload procs? I couldn't find any code to suggest it was treating the mini bolt different from a big bolt.

Omen does indeed not count this correctly and as such will warn that you're higher than you are. I'm not sure there is a way to fix this as they both read out as Lightning Bolt or Chain Lightning. It does seem to work however for other people (i.e. the tank will show you where you actually are, even though for you it says you're much higher). I'm not sure what causes this discrepancy as I haven't looked much into the coding of it, I just know that it causes issues.

GoG · 04/28/08, 10:50 PM

Well there is code in Omen to not count any chain lightning that happens within .45 seconds of the last chain, but nothing for regular lightning, and I don't even know if that .45 second thing is for overload protection.