The One Stop Elemental Shop - Page 70

Mirranda · 04/28/08, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by GoG

Well there is code in Omen to not count any chain lightning that happens within .45 seconds of the last chain, but nothing for regular lightning, and I don't even know if that .45 second thing is for overload protection.

I believe that's for multi-target bouncing, incase things share the same name, though it may work for LO. But again, like you said, no such thing for LB.

• Binkenstein · 04/29/08, 12:12 AM

In 2.4 Overload shows as a different spell in the combat log, ID wise, although it has the same name. I'd assume it's fairly likely that this has been identified, as I've found it to be mostly accurate so far.

Minyar · 04/29/08, 5:20 AM

Finaly reached 1870 dps on Sunday with the new heroic badge items

Teron

Illidan

Armory

Shaftoe · 04/29/08, 11:56 AM

Has anyone seen a WWS with higher (over 1800) dps from a "traditionalist" Shaman with no haste and purely stacking Crit and Damage from Sunwell or any T6 raids recently?

I have been unable to locate one and it would appear that all of the Elemental Shaman that are reporting increased DPS are directly attributing it to new haste gear. I have a few hold outs in my guild I want to provide with 3rd party information that seem to believe I should be stacking Spell dmg -even in the face of my continually increasing dps gains through the addition of more haste.

I did rifle through the WWS thread with no luck (possible I missed one).

Any assistance will be appreciated.

Zene · 04/29/08, 1:01 PM

Apologies if this has been mentioned before...please direct me to the appropriate section...despite reading most of this thread there is a lot to go with.

Is there a maximum haste I should be aware of and not exceed? Is it worth not taking haste past a certain point? At current I think I reach about 1.3 second lightning bolts with my spell haste relic proc and heroism up. If I ever reach 1s would it be worth holding back on haste? Or is it not worth considering since heroism is only a small part of the total fight? I know for now I switch to LB spam when heroism is up and stick to a 3/1 or 4/1 rotation otherwise.

I was also hoping to get some advice on gear. I've been using SEIC Beta 2 to help me figure out some gearing, from reading this thread it generally seems agreed that haste is a good way to go. I'm worried I might be doing it too early and sacrificing too much crit for it.

At the moment, I don't have any major mana issues due to having an spriest in my group during 25 mans, this is why I haven't had too many concerns with dropping crit. At the moment I'm sitting at 14% paper doll crit (without buffs and talent crit added in) and about 11% haste. Looking at my armory I also just got the spell haste boots from ZA. Now, the spreadsheet clearly indicates these items to be DPS upgrades. I was hoping that I'd be gearing for the future, in the sense that once I started getting more T6 my crit would go back up. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? The thing that worries me is that I can almost entirely get rid of crit from my gear...ie. badge chest and badge legs/waist would replace crit for haste even more.

Dhiva · 04/29/08, 1:57 PM

This is for reference, but here's the WWS on our 2nd Brutallus kill.

Wow Web Stats

Name is Syvha, I did 1988dps Armory
(Currently in resto gear .. I'll switch back once I'm back from work).

I had 0 burns, had two drummers, 2 heroism. I had 1 shadow priest, no boomkin, no hunter.
I used 2 destro pots and used Hex Shrunken Head during heroism.

My gear really lacks alot too. I miss all kind of Sunwell T6, which means I can't use the better chest or leggings from badge vendor yet (which would increase my dps by around 75 to 100 from the better badge gear + new T6 items). Also, I'm STILL using the Mazthoril Honor Shield (terrible luck on Archi's shield).
If I'd get the shield or better offhand, or if I had the chance to get the Staff of Zardoom, I'd gain another 75-100 dps.

So after getting the gear I lack, I'd be confident to say that I could do over 2100 no problem with the same group-makup, quite possibly 2200.

Hints on brutallus : If you have a shadow priest, dont use Totemic Recall, dont recast mana shield ... waste of dps!

I'll update this post later

Croaker · 04/29/08, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Shaftoe

Has anyone seen a WWS with higher (over 1800) dps from a "traditionalist" Shaman with no haste and purely stacking Crit and Damage from Sunwell or any T6 raids recently?

I have been unable to locate one and it would appear that all of the Elemental Shaman that are reporting increased DPS are directly attributing it to new haste gear. I have a few hold outs in my guild I want to provide with 3rd party information that seem to believe I should be stacking Spell dmg -even in the face of my continually increasing dps gains through the addition of more haste.

I did rifle through the WWS thread with no luck (possible I missed one).

Any assistance will be appreciated.

I swapped back and forth last night on Brutallus a bit. I went from a standard high damage/high crit setup putting out ~1600 DPS to my haste gear and put out 1750-1800. Haste really IS that good.

Originally Posted by Dhiva

Hints on brutallus : If you have a shadow priest, dont use astral recall, dont recast mana shield ... waste of dps!

Yeah, I'd say Astral Recall would be a bad call on most boss fights, really.

Dhiva · 04/29/08, 2:38 PM

Originally Posted by Croaker

Yeah, I'd say Astral Recall would be a bad call on most boss fights, really.

Fixed.

GoG · 04/29/08, 3:00 PM

Originally Posted by Dhiva

This is for reference, but here's the WWS on our 2nd Brutallus kill.

Wow Web Stats

Name is Syvha, I did 1988dps Armory
(Currently in resto gear .. I'll switch back once I'm back from work).

I had 0 burns, had two drummers, 2 heroism. I had 1 shadow priest, no boomkin, no hunter.
I used 2 destro pots and used Hex Shrunken Head during heroism.

My gear really lacks alot too. I miss all kind of Sunwell T6, which means I can't use the better chest or leggings from badge vendor yet (which would increase my dps by around 75 to 100 from the better badge gear + new T6 items). Also, I'm STILL using the Mazthoril Honor Shield (terrible luck on Archi's shield).
If I'd get the shield or better offhand, or if I had the chance to get the Staff of Zardoom, I'd gain another 75-100 dps.

So after getting the gear I lack, I'd be confident to say that I could do over 2100 no problem with the same group-makup, quite possibly 2200.

Hints on brutallus : If you have a shadow priest, dont use Totemic Recall, dont recast mana shield ... waste of dps!

I'll update this post later

Do you find that this is a typical output for you or just optimal RNG? Your chain lightning crit percentage was 54, are you doing something in particular to boost that, such as only using elemental mastery on the chains, or perhaps binding a trinket crit use ability to your chains?

Mirranda · 04/29/08, 3:13 PM

Originally Posted by Shaftoe

Has anyone seen a WWS with higher (over 1800) dps from a "traditionalist" Shaman with no haste and purely stacking Crit and Damage from Sunwell or any T6 raids recently?

I have been unable to locate one and it would appear that all of the Elemental Shaman that are reporting increased DPS are directly attributing it to new haste gear. I have a few hold outs in my guild I want to provide with 3rd party information that seem to believe I should be stacking Spell dmg -even in the face of my continually increasing dps gains through the addition of more haste.

I did rifle through the WWS thread with no luck (possible I missed one).

Any assistance will be appreciated.

Wow Web Stats

Our 2nd Brut kill. At the time I had no haste gear (which if you armory me now, I have btwn 114-175 haste, depending on which gear I'm trying). I did have 3 sets of drums in the group, but for actual gear, no haste. Was @ 1156 +dmg unbuffed (before totems, mats, set bonus).

GoG · 04/29/08, 3:23 PM

Mirranda, is that what you wear for pvp, or do you really raid with 8pcs of T6?

Houshmandz · 04/29/08, 6:51 PM

Originally Posted by Dhiva
This is for reference, but here's the WWS on our 2nd Brutallus kill.

Wow Web Stats

Name is Syvha, I did 1988dps Armory
(Currently in resto gear .. I'll switch back once I'm back from work).

I had 0 burns, had two drummers, 2 heroism. I had 1 shadow priest, no boomkin, no hunter.
I used 2 destro pots and used Hex Shrunken Head during heroism.

My gear really lacks alot too. I miss all kind of Sunwell T6, which means I can't use the better chest or leggings from badge vendor yet (which would increase my dps by around 75 to 100 from the better badge gear + new T6 items). Also, I'm STILL using the Mazthoril Honor Shield (terrible luck on Archi's shield).
If I'd get the shield or better offhand, or if I had the chance to get the Staff of Zardoom, I'd gain another 75-100 dps.

So after getting the gear I lack, I'd be confident to say that I could do over 2100 no problem with the same group-makup, quite possibly 2200.

Hints on brutallus : If you have a shadow priest, dont use Totemic Recall, dont recast mana shield ... waste of dps!

I'll update this post later

how were you able to do 75.5k CL damage on 11 casts? you must have had lucky lightning overloads or something

Dhiva · 04/29/08, 6:53 PM

Originally Posted by GoG

Do you find that this is a typical output for you or just optimal RNG? Your chain lightning crit percentage was 54, are you doing something in particular to boost that, such as only using elemental mastery on the chains, or perhaps binding a trinket crit use ability to your chains?

Yes 38 % for LB and fairly higher crit for CL is typical .. at least for me.

Check the number of time I used CL : only 11, but does that include LO ? Not sure. But anyway yes I time my EM when I use CL, which is 3 use on that fight (yes I open up with EM lol). so if you remove the 3 guaranteed crits, it would go from 6/11 crits to 3/11 crits, which makes only 27% crits without using EM, which make sense.

In comparison, I casted 138 LB. I do happen to experience that 'clip' or short lag when I want to queue up chain lighning, theres a delay, I dont know how many milliseconds, but there's something, which is why I focus on LB more than CL. because LB doesnt do that behavior. Also add to the fact that I go under 1 second with chain lighning and heroism, so I completly stop using CL under heroism, or I experience a delay between casts.

Originally Posted by Houshmandz

how were you able to do 75.5k CL damage on 11 casts? you must have had lucky lightning overloads or something

Although it's just a little above of my average, if you parse the 19 other tries before or so ( that was a hard night), you can see that I casted around 10 to 20 CL on most attempts, and a bunch of tries did around 70-75k total dmg or so. I had good luck so far timing my CL with EM

News flash, they seem to have fixed the queue time delay when casting Chain lighning since today!

Can someone confirm that change ? LB - > CL -> LB transition is really quick now.

Even on heroism, I use CL and the cast time would be under 1 sec, but the casting queue system works without delay now

Mirranda · 04/30/08, 4:14 AM

Originally Posted by GoG

Mirranda, is that what you wear for pvp, or do you really raid with 8pcs of T6?

Yeah, lack of mail drops from raids is ftl (outside of set). I actually just got the new Badge Chest with the haste on it today, and I'm holding off on the legs for the ones from Felmyst.

maha · 04/30/08, 4:29 AM

Hello, first time posting in this thread, i usually just read the replies to help my own insight of Elemental DPS. I have recently been respeccing Elemental for Brutallus. I have fairly decent gear 5/8 T6 and the trash gloves.

One thing has struck me odd and i could not find out why. I've been looking at my guild's WWS and comparing to other people's WWS I would do about 200 or so less DPS and about 100k less damage. Comparing this to Myrandas recent post on his 2nd Brut kill, Myranda also got off 22 more LBs than me.

I have around 1100 unbuffed with 35% crit with talents. I have 101 spell haste, I use Skull/ Icon for my trinkets. I have both skycall totem and ancestral guidance totem. I am paired with a Spriest during the Brut fights so mana isnt an issue. My group usually consists of 3 fire mages, an Spriest and me. I dont totemic recall my totems and i use 4LB/1 CL rotation.

I had some ideas on how my dmg would have been lowered, our hunters use serpents so they take up the SS charges. My latency is around 400-700 so my rotation might be jeopardized. That's about it, i was wondering if anyone can help me to find what my problem is.

http://wowwebstats.com/xzsreb6wekk33?s=10301-10653 One of the latest Brutallus kills for my guild. Sorry on the bad URL linkage i havn't figured out how you can rename the link.

Pucc · 04/30/08, 10:39 AM

Do you or any one in your group have drums ? That would represent a loss of casting combined with latency . If you have 4 people in a group with drums you could run them constantly with loss due to lag of course .Other than that all i can say is practice

ruizAw · 04/30/08, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by maha

... I have both skycall totem and ancestral guidance totem... i use 4LB/1 CL rotation...

you swap relic in combat? Try use ONLY Ancestral or LB-spam+only Ancestral - with hi latency rotation so hard.

maha · 04/30/08, 6:35 PM

Originally Posted by ruizAw

you swap relic in combat? Try use ONLY Ancestral or LB-spam+only Ancestral - with hi latency rotation so hard.

No sir, I just saying I had both in my inventory because i havn't figured out which one to use.

To Pucc i think 2 people in my party have drums.

Mirranda · 04/30/08, 6:51 PM

Originally Posted by maha

Hello, first time posting in this thread, i usually just read the replies to help my own insight of Elemental DPS. I have recently been respeccing Elemental for Brutallus. I have fairly decent gear 5/8 T6 and the trash gloves.

One thing has struck me odd and i could not find out why. I've been looking at my guild's WWS and comparing to other people's WWS I would do about 200 or so less DPS and about 100k less damage. Comparing this to Myrandas recent post on his 2nd Brut kill, Myranda also got off 22 more LBs than me.

I have around 1100 unbuffed with 35% crit with talents. I have 101 spell haste, I use Skull/ Icon for my trinkets. I have both skycall totem and ancestral guidance totem. I am paired with a Spriest during the Brut fights so mana isnt an issue. My group usually consists of 3 fire mages, an Spriest and me. I dont totemic recall my totems and i use 4LB/1 CL rotation.

I had some ideas on how my dmg would have been lowered, our hunters use serpents so they take up the SS charges. My latency is around 400-700 so my rotation might be jeopardized. That's about it, i was wondering if anyone can help me to find what my problem is.

http://wowwebstats.com/xzsreb6wekk33?s=10301-10653 One of the latest Brutallus kills for my guild. Sorry on the bad URL linkage i havn't figured out how you can rename the link.

If you're comparing directly to my WWS, in which I use a Lighting Capacitor still, which shows up on a WWS report as "Lightning Bolt", i.e. the same as your actual spell, so you'd have to factor in how many of those I got as well, and I believe in that particular report I had 16.

You actually have just about as many LBs as I do, but because of my trinket it shows up as quite a few more. The loss of stormstrike does indeed hurt your DPS a lot. I found between weeks when our survival hunter wouldn't bring his wind serpent that it ranged anywhere from 100 DPS to almost 220 DPS depending on how lucky I got on getting both charges or whether I only got one. (Mind you Stormstrike probably wasn't the only thing contributing to that but it was the only major difference I could see between weeks when I wasn't competing against a wind serpent).

Pucc · 04/30/08, 7:00 PM

nice thing about being the raid leader is i can nudge people into getting pets that do not eat my strikes )

maha · 04/30/08, 8:02 PM

Should i change my trinkets to something else? Atm I'm using icon/skull but i usually see many shamans with one passive and one on use.

Mirranda · 04/30/08, 9:18 PM

Originally Posted by maha

Should i change my trinkets to something else? Atm I'm using icon/skull but i usually see many shamans with one passive and one on use.

According to your WWS you posted, you're using a Shiffar's Nexus-Horn instead of an Icon.
In answer to the question though, I believe most people are using an on-use and a passive trinket due to the way that trinkets have been itemized, and it's just the best combination that people can get in terms of trinkets. The best combo is actually a dual on-use (Skull + Hex Head) but after those two, I think the next 4 best trinkets are all passive, and then it goes to an on-use again (Icon).

If you get Bink's spreadsheet that he's been updating, SEIC, some of your questions might be pretty easily answered. Definitely worth a look.

Nizari · 05/01/08, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Mirranda

According to your WWS you posted, you're using a Shiffar's Nexus-Horn instead of an Icon.
In answer to the question though, I believe most people are using an on-use and a passive trinket due to the way that trinkets have been itemized, and it's just the best combination that people can get in terms of trinkets. The best combo is actually a dual on-use (Skull + Hex Head) but after those two, I think the next 4 best trinkets are all passive, and then it goes to an on-use again (Icon).

If you get Bink's spreadsheet that he's been updating, SEIC, some of your questions might be pretty easily answered. Definitely worth a look.

I have Crusader, TLC, Sextant, Icon. I basically juggle around the first 3.

Hexlord has only dropped 2 trinkets in TOTAL for our guild (ironically both those people left the guild) and we have only had 2 skulls... so chances of me getting either are slim.

I just can't find decent math as to whether I should keep using TLC or not? I'm assuming TLC and Sextant > Icon (still above 40% crit at 150 haste)

• Daler · 05/01/08, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by Nizari

I just can't find decent math as to whether I should keep using TLC or not?

Seriously? It's been done to death, and rehashed yet again on page 65-ish.

Even though the wiki's up and running, the search function's still your friend

Short answer: TLC is still a very good trinket.

Mirranda · 05/01/08, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by Nizari

I just can't find decent math as to whether I should keep using TLC or not? I'm assuming TLC and Sextant > Icon (still above 40% crit at 150 haste)

You'd be correct in your statement there. Sextant > Icon, and TLC is the 4th best trinket slot choice if I remember right.

I feel you on the Skulls though, only 1 drop for my guild in 23 kills.