Question about the very beginning of the transition in going from non-hasted to hasted gear/gems/dps:
What is a good spell haste % to "start" with when first making the transition to the hasted rotation of 4x LB, 1x CL from the non-hasted rotation of 3x LB, 1x CL?
I've been running 1% haste for a while (via the BT trash ring), just to combat that little big of lag, and sticking with the old high crit/spell damage non-hasted dps style.
But last night I picked up a few new pieces, and started to gem haste for the first time on them, so I'm now at 4% spell haste. According to the Elemental Shaman Think Tank thread here and haste/spell dmg chart, it looks like 6% spell haste around 1000-1100 spell damage is optimal for a positive dps impact. Am I reading that right?
So it seems as if I'm still short in optimizing the 4x LB, 1x CL hasted rotation, and will see that slight dps dip until I hit 6% spell haste, correct? If so, I may just purchase some badge haste gear to hit and break the 6% spell haste mark rather than run lower dps overall at 4% spell haste.
I just want to make sure I'm going down the right path here. This transition phase when going to hasted rotations for the very first time is significant, and if there's information here somewhere that analyzes and discusses transition phase specifically in more detail, please point me to it! Thank you.
You started at the right spot.
Follow that graph to find the point where you sit at raid buffed for damage, and then check the point of haste where you'd switch. If you're there or above that amount of haste, switch, if not, just wait the extra 0.xx sec for CL to come back up and stick to 3:1.
You pretty much did it right.
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Edit: For simplicities sake, link your Armory correctly, as you're linked to "Gruul" rather than "Ghruwl"
That also assumes you have the mana to support CL every 6 seconds. Adding sustainability in makes it more complicated. Even with Haste, 4/1 uses less mana than 3/1. CL is over 3 times as expensive comparing mana/time.
I was reading some of the previous posts about auto hot key. I tried the code listed above with rotation between buttons 2 and 6. I am getting this very irritating clicking sound, similar to if i was to spam click my lightning bolt. In addition, the lag i am receiving is upwards of 80-90s from laginfo and the code seems quite buggy. I'm not sure how this is an improvement from pressing the button every cast.
thanks in advance.
What are your 2 and 6 key bound to? Is it simply lightning bolt or some sort of macro. I would suggest trying it bound to simple lbolt if you are not already.
This is rather basic information, but perhaps some will find it useful. I would suggest putting:
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
in your macro to reduce the error spam. Also either turn off Error Speech in options, or use /console Sound_EnableSFX 0/1 to disable/re-enable within the macro. It'll still make a clicking noise (on the faint side) and sometimes I'll just hold the button on the last 50% of each spell to minimize it. But I'm very used to it at this point.
Once you get it working correctly, your LagInfo should read < 10ms for LB spam (average should be ~0 actually), and probably less than 50ms for 4:1 at the most. People with decent ISPs should see <30ms.
I've heard from one of our BM hunters that AHK works with their BM macro, dropping his interval from 400+ to 10-20ms. Would be interested to hear any other hunter anecdotes if you could PM me.
That also assumes you have the mana to support CL every 6 seconds. Adding sustainability in makes it more complicated. Even with Haste, 4/1 uses less mana than 3/1. CL is over 3 times as expensive comparing mana/time.
If you have enough haste, LB spam deals the same damage as nonhasted 3/1 at considerably less mana cost AND gives you the ability to deal considerably more damage if you have spare mana. So above border value, haste is always good. The main issue is the sacrifice you make in itemvalue (gemvalue) compared to the haste you get - that's why I made my own spreadsheets (no offense, Bink :p) that show me several figures at the same time, allowing me to fast compare what I want to see.
Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.
This is rather basic information, but perhaps some will find it useful. I would suggest putting:
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
in your macro to reduce the error spam. Also either turn off Error Speech in options, or use /console Sound_EnableSFX 0/1 to disable/re-enable within the macro. It'll still make a clicking noise (on the faint side) and sometimes I'll just hold the button on the last 50% of each spell to minimize it. But I'm very used to it at this point.
Once you get it working correctly, your LagInfo should read < 10ms for LB spam (average should be ~0 actually), and probably less than 50ms for 4:1 at the most. People with decent ISPs should see <30ms.
I've heard from one of our BM hunters that AHK works with their BM macro, dropping his interval from 400+ to 10-20ms. Would be interested to hear any other hunter anecdotes if you could PM me.
Thanks for the info. I tried to insert this /script UIErrorsFrame:Clear() but it didn't work for me. I received an error message.
Would you mind pasting the code. Thanks
#ifWinActive World of Warcraft
{
$2::
Loop
{
if not GetKeyState("2", "P")
break
Send 2
sleep 1
}
return
$6::
Loop
{
if not GetKeyState("6", "P")
break
Send 6
sleep 1
}
return}
Am doing a bit of practice with AHK on Dr. Boom, and does it take some time and practice to get this down, like the whole timing aspect of it? I try to get EM in and sometimes I will just cast another LB instead of EM b/c I guess I just have the button mashed the whole time so there is no way for another command to get inputted. I guess I just gotta get better at releasing the button at the right time to activate other abilities, trinkets, drums, etc. Did anyone else have a "learning curve" when first using AHK, or am I just a noob :\
That's why I made my own spreadsheets (no offense, Bink :p) that show me several figures at the same time, allowing me to fast compare what I want to see.
Why should I take offence?
Post what you have and I'll take a look. Could always get you helping out on mine if you want.
Another retarded question. I have my CL mapped to the F1 key. When I put F1 into the script it uses the button set up for Frostbrand Weapon (shift + F). Why would it do this? Is there a certain way you need to put the F keys into the script? I looked at the tutorial for AHK and it don't see them having a special way to put the F keys into a script
Even with Quartz there's really not much visual feedback on when your subsequent cast was accepted by the server, so yes that part is a learning process.
To Gazsers: The '/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()' line goes in your WoW macro that is bound to your 2 and 6 keys, not AHK.
Future AHK questions should probably go to the new AHK thread Skyhoof made in Macro/UI thread or just PM me.
I have my G15 ( could just as easily by AHK ) repeatedly press the 'C' key. Then I bind C key to lightning bolt, shift C to chain lightning and alt C to my cooldowns macro. Once I start the spam I just alternate between not holding shift, holding shift and every 2 minutes holding down alt.
edit: So, what I was trying to get at (deleted my original post cause it kind of made no sense <.<) was comparing using the old Quartz method of pressing your spell button before the red zone compared to using AHK. I did 5 LB spam tests on Dr. Boom using AHK and then just Quartz and these were the averages of those results...
AHK
DPS: 1380
casting ms: 8
casts till oom: 70
Quartz
DPS: 1327
casting ms: 25
casts till oom: 70
I was really surprised to see the same amount of casts till oom, which is really what we're using AHK for, right? To squeeze a few more casts in by reducing the casting lag? The dps numbers don't really concern me because I could've gotten more crits the first 5 tries using AHK. If I would've seen more casts till oom w/ the AHK method which would have contributed to that slight dps increase it would've been a different story.
Casts till OOM are also affected by luck. You crit more, you cast more.
The real deal is when you have unstable latency; you can miss an opportunity to cast using the old method, because the 'red zone' gets calculated at the beginning of the cast, but it can vary during that 2 seconds, which can make you stop for bits of time.
Crit and haste: What is the lowest reasonable crit rating?
I know this topic has been discussed numerous times and i'm sure this has been asked before (just couldn't dig it up).
I recently decided to give haste a try. I'm currently at 165 haste base and skycall totem and quag's eye (when they proc). However, specing into haste i've dipped my crit down to around 17.2% unbuffed. Should i continue to look for haste gear or raise my crit a bit? Is there a lvl of base crit that i should never dip below?
This is *slightly* off topic, and I apologize if it's been reviewed and changed already, *but*
Somewhere, skycall totem was evaluated as being up roughly 60% of the time, and it's dps value was calculated based on 60% up time.
I'd just like to note that, given no cd whatsoever on skycall (it can proc while you are already under it's effect), the more haste you have, the higher % of time the skycall buff is up.
*edit* I don't have totem of ancestral guidance to compare the two in a haste gear setup, but I imagine skycall in this situation is pretty damn close to the performance of ancestral guidance, if not outright better from a dps standpoint.
I am currently at 349 unbuffed spell haste, and after the first proc, the skycall buff is up nearly 100% of the time for me in chain casting situations.
sorry to divert your conversation, please continue
I'd just like to note that, given no cd whatsoever on skycall (it can proc while you are already under it's effect), the more haste you have, the higher % of time the skycall buff is up.
I've done a calculation for my own gear and skycall comes out as roughly 56 haste over time (average, of course, as you can only calculate the chances for durations) for LB spam and 47 in CL-4LB rotation. As you said, the trinket gets better with gear - in my case, it gives me about 10 dps more on LB spam and about 1 dps less in CL-4LB rotation - but at a mana cost. In theory, of course, as the actual uptime will be slightly lower due to cast delay, movement, etc. Still, a very good trinket to use.
I've mentioned my own spreadsheets above. Right now, I'm working on adding Heroism dps and then calculating the averaged dps based on the number of heroisms, the number of drum casts and the length of the fight. This should give me a calculation as close as possible to reality.
Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.
Would you mind posting your formula for the Skycall totem?
I don't see how it's possible that it gives less than 60 haste if you have any static haste at all, if that result is correct, though, the Ancestral Guidance one would be a far better choice.
This is *slightly* off topic, and I apologize if it's been reviewed and changed already, *but*
Somewhere, skycall totem was evaluated as being up roughly 60% of the time, and it's dps value was calculated based on 60% up time.
I'd just like to note that, given no cd whatsoever on skycall (it can proc while you are already under it's effect), the more haste you have, the higher % of time the skycall buff is up.
*edit* I don't have totem of ancestral guidance to compare the two in a haste gear setup, but I imagine skycall in this situation is pretty damn close to the performance of ancestral guidance, if not outright better from a dps standpoint.
I am currently at 349 unbuffed spell haste, and after the first proc, the skycall buff is up nearly 100% of the time for me in chain casting situations.
sorry to divert your conversation, please continue
I've tried to make this point before and it received no response. Its absolutely true that the uptime and therefore value of the totem increases as your static haste rating increases. At 449 haste (calculated by what you'd have when the buff is up), you'd have around a 96% chance of reapplying the buff before the duration wore out if spamming LB. Of course in real world situations it would be slightly lower for various reasons, but the fact remains that for fights with little movement where you can spam away at LB for extended periods of time the Skycall Totem actually should be anywhere from a bit better to vastly better than Ancestral Guidance if you have a signifigant amount of haste rating from gear.
I've tried to make this point before and it received no response. Its absolutely true that the uptime and therefore value of the totem increases as your static haste rating increases. At 449 haste (calculated by what you'd have when the buff is up), you'd have around a 96% chance of reapplying the buff before the duration wore out if spamming LB. Of course in real world situations it would be slightly lower for various reasons, but the fact remains that for fights with little movement where you can spam away at LB for extended periods of time the Skycall Totem actually should be anywhere from a bit better to vastly better than Ancestral Guidance if you have a signifigant amount of haste rating from gear.
Except that as your haste level rises, damage becomes more and more important again. There's a happy medium somewhere, I just don't know how to find it.
I've tried to make this point before and it received no response. Its absolutely true that the uptime and therefore value of the totem increases as your static haste rating increases. At 449 haste (calculated by what you'd have when the buff is up), you'd have around a 96% chance of reapplying the buff before the duration wore out if spamming LB. Of course in real world situations it would be slightly lower for various reasons, but the fact remains that for fights with little movement where you can spam away at LB for extended periods of time the Skycall Totem actually should be anywhere from a bit better to vastly better than Ancestral Guidance if you have a signifigant amount of haste rating from gear.
I'm not sure I buy this math. I think people tend to forget that haste applies no benefit at all unless you actually have the time to get an additional cast of the spell. Over an extended period of time, say 360 seconds, like on bruttalus we assume that this is a minor point ( perhaps a delusion. ) However, over smaller intervals such as the 10 seconds the totem is up, this effect is much more profound. So if you were to calculate the chance of reapplying the buff before the duration wore out you'd need to recognize that haste rating will only benefit you in a step wise manner. In fact, its a pretty small function, you can only conceivably cast 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 lightning bolts in a ten second period. Let's assume your haste rating is really banging ( skycall has proc'd after all, ) and you are getting 7 lightning bolt casts in 10 seconds, that would leave you with a 68% chance to reapply the buff before it wears out. 8 lightning bolts only get you to 73%. I think you need 20 lightning bolts to get to a 96% chance, which is impossible.
So, just recently, I finally got a Skull and I realized that I have a dilemma as to trinket order now.
Since Bink's spreadsheet doesn't specify trinket usage order and stacking of consumables (which is minimal as a shaman), is it more beneficial to stack the Skull with a Destro pot and Heroism and then use Hex Head after the skull has worn off (and thus the Destro pot also), or would stacking the damage be more beneficial.
Also, what about for un-heroism/bloodlusted times? I'm guessing that it'd be more beneficial to stack Skull with Destro pot when you BL/Hero is not up, and to use Hex Head instead when it is up, but I'm totally speculating.
05/16/08, 2:49 PM
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