GoG

Since haste effects stack multiplicatively I would suggest raising your haste rating when you Blood lust is your best bet. I would add, that even though the duration of blood lust is 40 seconds, you aren't guaranteed to get all 40 seconds of it, due to death or what have you, so I would always use my best stuff up front which would be the skull and the destro pot.

Another thing to consider is the order you use your cooldowns. In a macro, it's not possible ( I think ) to use drums, then the destro pot since you must end a macro with the thing that initiates a global cooldown. However, in practice if you pot first you'll waste the first 1.5 seconds of your pot time activating drums.

Gog the Shaman
Ferall the Warrior
Orthrus the Warlock

 

Daidalos

This simply implies that value for skycall is not very granular but quantitized.

so we can write it as:
chance to reapply (uptime)
1-(.85^(FLOOR(10s/actual cast time)*1.2))

I'm assuming LO doesn't proc skycall but not sure if this was ever verified.

Most commonly people's cast time will be
2.00s > x1 > 1.666... s
and
1.666 > x2 > 1.428

the haste range will be for x1
0 > h1> 315 : 62% uptime
haste ranges for x2
315 > h2 > 631 : 69% uptime


Edit: changed for LO proccing skycall

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Nacht

Lightning Overload does proc Skycall Totem. That was confirmed with testing quite a while ago.

 

GoG

My point was that the math stating a reapply percentage of 96% was flawed. The consequence, as you displayed is that the uptime is asymptotic as cast times approach zero. In fact, with a lightning bolt cast time of 1 second, I would estimate the uptime of the proc to be 87%, this would be the soft cap of the relic. If LO does proc the relic, though, I'll have to re-evaluate my math. Does anyone know if the TLC can also proc the totem? My head might explode if the answer is yes.

Edit:

Ok, according to wowhead and thottbot this does proc off of TLC and it procs on hit rather than cast. This makes things a big more dicey to calculate, but the basic formula for uptime would look something like:

1 - ( .85 ^ N)

Where N = [number of lightning bolt type things that hit in a (10 + lengthOfBoltCast) seconds].

For N of 10 it's about 80%.

I might have to crunch some more numbers to see what a reasonable range of N would be, but the interesting implication might be that the correct thing to do would be to ninja relic swap a few seconds before you blood lust.

Gog the Shaman
Ferall the Warrior
Orthrus the Warlock

 

• Binkenstein

The problem is working out the uptime because of the lack of internal cooldown.

So X procs in time period Y does not result in an uptime of 10X/Y and is complicated by the fact you are slightly more likely to get another proc while the buff is up in comparison to any other 10 second period.

 

Mirranda

I drums completely separate from my other timers so that's a non-factor. I suppose you're right, I just wasn't sure due to being so close GCD with it up.

Pretend I typed something witty.

 

GoG

The equation is actually key to uptime since the percentage chance that any particular lightning bolt is hasted by skycall is simply a question of whether any of the previous lightning bolts in the previous 10 +/- junk has procced the totem. The only difference is that that equation assumes a 10 second lead in time, which you wouldnt have unless you switched relics 10 seconds prior to BL. It might get slightly funky since the totem can haste you, but since its a step wise function 100 haste will often make no difference at all on proc rate.

I guesstimate that the maximum average number of lightning bolt effects that will occur in any ~11 second period would be 15. That's 11 lightning bolts, 2 LO procs and 6 crits to make for 2 TLC bolts. That's the absolute, highly unlikely, circumstance. That would give an uptime of around 90%. Feel free to explain to me why my math is flawed, I'm pretty sure it's correct, but I'm open minded

Gog the Shaman
Ferall the Warrior
Orthrus the Warlock

 

Daidalos

This was my assumption and why I calculated chance to reapply per 10s in my post above. I think this should work fine in any uptime calculations and seems to match data seen in wws.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Haark

I'm having serious mana issues on brutallus, we have 2 spriests on the fight 1 for a healer group and the other starts with 3 locks and me until 50% then he goes to a 3 mage restoshaman group. But the 5th member of that group was also a resto shaman. They both used their tides until 50%. But without a spriest I can't maintain a 4/1 rotation, altough I'm not useing destro from the start, I have to use super mana potions on CD. And this totally fracks my mind that I can't hit 2k dps. Best so far was 1950.

The questions really are:

1. Does the mages really need a spriest after 2 tides?
2. Does out shadowpriest suck a bit if I need to mana pot with him? The World of Warcraft Armory
3. Is it normal that I go oom with 2 heroisms, chain battle drums haste heavy gear but chain potting.


And another totally different question:

Which will be the 4th piece of T6 that you'll keep for the 4pc bonus? ( I hope this is not a how to gear question... )

 

Kaideq

I go oom with a SP full time without jow on Brut when fully nuking 4/1, that's normal. A second heroism only adds to that problem. Is your shadow priest soaking the slash's/having to move around for whatever reason? If his dps time isn't optimal you will pretty much see that directly by your mana bar plumeting.
Depends on the mage spec, if they're fire they will go oom without a sp with 2 tides without breaking a sweat, they burn mana insanely fast.
If you aren't pushing 2k dps with chain drums and a heroism somethings going very wrong though, that's not a 3 destro pot difference

Starchild Spacegoat Shaman in Beta

 

Haark

Well if I lose my spriest at 50%, and have to switch to LB spam, reapply WS and still run oom at around 5-10%, I really don't think that 1950 is bad. I just really want to do a 4/1 at the whole fight useing destro instead of mana.

Yes he is soaking slashes as do I, but he really don't have to move except te occasional burn runs. Mages all fire, deep fire or double IV 0-40-21.

But if that's the case I might get a better result using sorc. alchemist stone instead of sextant or TLC with skull here. And fel mana potions might be better also. Altough I don't like the debuff. But it's a flat 5040 mana with alch. stone. Am I right?

 

Handyhoof

Skycall is a tough bugger to nail down. The proc on landing vs casting plus the inherent step-wise mechanic of Haste acting upon cast times... yeah, tough equation. That's why I chose to write a program to model it instead of trying to deal with direct formula. I can change the behavior of the casts exactly how I want, and exactly how the game does it, and just run it for a long time and get the statistical average uptime calculations.

If you're looking for statistical maximum (as opposed to theoretical possibility), I let my sim chug for 20 minutes, with 500 Haste rating, LB spam rotation. It currently does not support TLC.

I saw a 75% uptime.

 

Mirranda

Very normal. There's some days that I don't have to worry about it at all, and others where I just roll shitty and I get no crits for a long stretch of time that lets my mana plummet. RNG is fun, isn't it?

Also, 4pc will be gloves assuming I ever see a CoG'D.
And I also haven't seen 2k, I consistently sit at 1950-1980.

If you're chain mana potting, the alch stone would be something to consider. Definitely don't use Fel Mana's though.

Pretend I typed something witty.

 

• Binkenstein

Is this in a releasable format (ie: something I can steal and specify a haste figure and get an uptime figure from it)?
Would like to see if there's some predictable pattern in uptime related to the haste you have equipped, and then I can try to work this into my spreadsheet.

Skycall will be better than AG if we can get the uptime better than 85 divided by the haste damage equiv value (~70% if haste = 1.2 damage)

 

Handyhoof

I'll see what I can do to build it into a standard Windows Executable. I'm a bit rusty so it'll take me a bit, but I'll post when I get it up and running.

 

Chaser

I see that a lot, everyone planning on keeping T6 gloves, however this is not ideal. Even though GotAS have a lower ilevel compared to other SW pieces they have the advantage of a socket over the T6 gloves which make things a lot closer.

So, allow me to choose some weird gem set ups to make it clearer that T6 shoulders + GotAS are better than T6 gloves + erupting epaulets.

So T6 shoulders (6 spell damage 7 stamina and 5 spell haste 6 spell dmg gems) + GotAS (12 spell damage, 5 spell haste 7 stamina gems) = gear set up #1 =

11 spell hit
63 intellect
57 spell crit rating
34 spell haste
117 spell damage
4 mp5

And T6 gloves (5 spell haste 7 stamina) + Erupting Epaulets (12 spell damage and 5 spell haste 7 stamina) = gear set up #2 =

19 spell hit
61 intellect
56 spell crit rating
34 spell haste
117 spell damage
0 mp5

Gear set up #1 has :
+2 intellect
+1 spell crit rating
+4 mp5
-8 spell hit

I'm making sure I'm using 2 blue gems for each set up to get the meta activation out of the way. For the rest of the gear you only have yellow and red sockets anyway so might as well take care of the meta activation right there.

So, T6 shoulders + GotAS are slightly superior in the end unless you need that +8 spell hit rating. But with enchant on the helm (+14), T6 shoulders (+11) and skull of gul'dan (+25) you're at 50 spell hit rating. For a draenei this is more than sufficient since we only need 38 spell hit rating. Now for horde, you'd be 1 spell hit rating short of the cap, so gear set up #2 might be preferable but I doubt it.

Just wanted to throw that option in there.

Also, there has been a couple of new pieces of loot that have come out. So obviously your list is outdated. The cloak from Kil'Jaeden and the ring/trinket from M'uru would make it in there. But I just wanted to point that keeping T6 shoulders was the best thing to do (at least for draenei shamans).

 

everwatch

Where are the ascetics people? :P Show Helm Off + T6 Helm + all other SW pieces = sexy! If you're toting full SW gear for the most part, and not dropping Kiljaeden, this is a very good idea to plan for. It allows for the full T6 bonuses, while maintaining solid gear upgrades. By the time you kill KJ and get the helm if you really wanna swap it up you can, but it just doesn't seem like the DPS gain is enough (once you have all of the other items) to not go with what will look the best to you.

You're talking about 1 peice of T6 gear to keep. Which sure as hell ain't gonna match anything from SW. Pick an item that gives you the best look (helm off T6 imo) or pick an item that gives you the most customization (ie gem slots). One item's dps gain over another isn't enough to have to determine it gets used when you're at Farm Status on SW.

http://www.skeletonjack.com/

 

Kaideq

I will be keeping the T6 head if I get a choice in the matter, simply put the blue gloves look retarded when paired with the rest of the set.
Keeping the helm and simply not showing it will make your toon look so much better, fuck the 10 dps difference imo
I also like the gem slots in the gloves a lot.

Starchild Spacegoat Shaman in Beta

 

• Binkenstein

Assuming that socket bonuses are taken, and ignoring stam and int

Shoulders: +7 dmg, -11 hit, +3 crit, +24 haste, -4 mp5, -1 blue, +1 red
Gloves: -5 dmg, -19 hit, +4 crit, +24 haste, +1 blue, +1 red, -1 yellow

Shoulders - Gloves: 12 dmg, 8 hit, -1 crit, -4 mp5, -2 blue, +1 yellow

If blue = 5haste/7stam and yellow = 10 haste, we can cancel the haste changes out, and thus T6 gloves + Erupting is the better choice. Remember that point for point, haste is usually the better stat to take, and thus the gem selection I have made.

If we want to make sure that at least one blue gem is used, the T6 glove set loses 5 haste, but it still isn't enough to justify using GotAS + T6 shoulders over Erupting + T6 gloves.

 

Chaser

You have to use at least 2 blue gems in your gear set up. If you chose to use only one blue gem in your T6 gloves + erupting epaulet combo, you will have to use a green gems in a yellow socket in another piece of gear anyway to activate your meta (or a 6 spell dmg 7 stam in a red socket). And that is where I'll catch up with you.

What I am telling you, is that no matter what gems you use, if you decide to go for T6 gloves + erupting epaulets, I can beat you by 4mp5, 1 spell crit and 2 intellect by using T6 shoulders and GotAS.

I tried to make it simple and compare the 2 pieces with the other 2 pieces and take care of the meta requirements right away so we didn't have to do the full 8 pieces, but if you don't believe me go ahead and choose the best 8 pieces you can come up with amongst the following :

Skyshatter regalia (all 8 pieces)
Cowl of Gul'dan
GotAS
Erupting Epaulets
Garments of crashing shores
Chain Links of the tumultuous storm (leggings of calamity are better by a small margin and is better left to clothies unless tons of it drop)

while making sure that you meet the meta requirements for a chaotic skyfire diamond.

No matter what gems you use (if you meet the meta requirements), I bet you I can have the exact same amout of haste and spell damage as you will have, and on top of that have +1 spell crit, 4 mp5 and 2 intellect over you by using the T6 shoulders over the T6 gloves. Wanna try ?

Obviously, as 2 posters pointed above me, if you're into the fashion aspect of it, you're better off keeping the T6 helm and hiding it but that isn't the intent of this post :P

 

• Binkenstein

Even if you assume a 10 haste loss by using two green gems (haste/stam) you still have a 12 dmg, 8 hit vs 1 crit 10 haste 4mp5 situation (Need I remind you of the relative uselessness of mp5).
The interesting point is that the difference between haste and damage becomes reduced as you start accumulating haste (I have almost reached the point of inflection where 10 haste = 12 damage by getting the badge pants & t6 bracers recently).

And if you're arguing for an aesthetics point of view, I'd like to ask you to leave this thread quietly (seriously, if we're arguing about minimal stat differences between two setups and you're going with the one that looks better, something is wrong).

 

Chaser

I was merely joking. And any upgrade is an upgrade. And no, you wouldn't have 12 dmg over me. As I said above, do the test above, If you choose T6 gloves and I pick T6 shoulders, gem the way you want, I'll be able to have just as much haste and spell damage as you do and get you beat in other areas. That should prove that the T6 shoulders are indeed superior would it not ?

 

tl.

Since in ideally situation you'd have skull as one of your trinkets, dreanai shamans would be hit capped before the 8 hit (25+14+11 = 50), so they'd be choosing between 12sp.dam vs. 1crit, yellow gem (10 haste) and 4mp5 (and 2 Int). I'd choose the later, though since I am a tauren, I guess I'll have to go with Erupting Epaulets.

 

• Binkenstein

No, it wouldn't. As I pointed out, if you gem with two forceful seasprays to maintain the two blues required for CSD, it still comes down to comparing 12 damage and 8 hit against 1 crit and 10 haste. The reason why I find hit important at this point is that there is zero hit from Sunwell gear, which means we either need to keep above the cap from gear, or gem for it (which is probably more of a waste tbh). Gloves, helm enchant and Skull will put you at 58 hit rating, over the 4% hit cap (or 3% for me).

Even if we ignore the extra hit (and 1 crit rating), I would still go with 12 damage vs 10 haste, because at the gear level that I would have to make the decision at (ie: I had all the SP armor items) I would have roughly 467 haste, and at this point 12 dmg > 5haste/6dmg > 10 haste, which means that a) the stat differences that we're comparing come out on the side of T6 gloves, b) it's smarter to gem dmg/stam into a red gem socket on the shoulders and the chest/legs to maintain socket bonuses and meta requirements. (fyi: dmg = 0.844, haste = 0.966, a ratio of 1.14)

 

• Binkenstein

EP levels for best-in-slot gear from the zone/levels in question.
Entry = Kara/Badges, T4 = ZA/Gruul/Mag, T5 = SSC/TK, T6 = BT/MH, SP is obvious.

Stat	Entry	T4	T5	T6	SP
Damage				0.794	0.905
Spell Crit				0.623	0.724
Spell Haste				0.985	1.071
Int				0.172	0.200

I'll update these over the course of the day, but my initial thoughts will be that the changes will only affect gems and nothing else.