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Old 08/12/08, 2:46 PM   #2126
Kirashi
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Spirestone
Hey guys, I edited the script posted about reguarding SS benifit and it calculates actual damage gained now

import codecs

f = codecs.open(r'wowcombatlog.txt', 'r', 'utf-8')

totalSSCharge = 0
totalSSBenefit = 0
ssCharges = 0
ssUsers = {}

for line in f:
    timestamp, event = line.split('  ')
    event = event.split(',')
    eventType, sourceGUID, sourceName, sourceFlags, destGUID, destName, destFlags = event[0:7]

    if eventType == u'SPELL_AURA_APPLIED':
        spellId, spellName, spellSchool = event[7:10]
        if spellName == u'"Stormstrike"':
            ssCharges += 2
            totalSSCharge += 2

    # nature damage
    if eventType == u'SPELL_DAMAGE':
        spellId, spellName, spellSchool, spellDamage = event[7:11]
        if spellSchool == '0x8':
            if ssCharges > 0:
                totalSSBenefit += int(spellDamage) / 6
                if sourceName in ssUsers.keys():
                    if spellName in ssUsers[sourceName]:
                        ssUsers[sourceName][spellName][0] += 1
                        ssUsers[sourceName][spellName][1] += (int(spellDamage) / 6)
                    else:
                        ssUsers[sourceName][spellName] = {}
                        ssUsers[sourceName][spellName][0] = 1
                        ssUsers[sourceName][spellName][1] = (int(spellDamage) / 6)
                else:
                    ssUsers[sourceName] = {}
                    ssUsers[sourceName][spellName] = {}
                    ssUsers[sourceName][spellName][0] = 1
                    ssUsers[sourceName][spellName][1] = (int(spellDamage) / 6)
                ssCharges = ssCharges - 1

print "Total StormStrike Charge: %d" % totalSSCharge
print "Total StormStrike Benefit: %d" % totalSSBenefit
print ""

for user in ssUsers:
    perUserTotalDamage = 0
    perUserTotalCharge = 0
    print "========================================================"
    print "%s: " % user
    for spell in ssUsers[user]:
        perUserTotalDamage += ssUsers[user][spell][1]
        perUserTotalCharge += ssUsers[user][spell][0]
        print "\t%s" % spell
        print "\t\tSS Consumed Count:\t\t%d" % ssUsers[user][spell][0]
        print "\t\tDamage Benefited:\t\t%d" % ssUsers[user][spell][1]
        print "\t\tAverage Benefit Per Hit:\t%d" % (ssUsers[user][spell][1] / ssUsers[user][spell][0])
    print "User consumed %2.2f percent of the charges" % (float(float(perUserTotalCharge) / float(totalSSCharge)) * 100)
    print "User gained %2.2f percent of the total benefit" % (float(float(perUserTotalDamage) / float(totalSSBenefit)) * 100)
    print "========================================================"
    print ""
And the end result of a really crappy illidan night (new tank to learn P2 -_-)

Total StormStrike Charge: 410
Total StormStrike Benefit: 190878

========================================================
"Kridias": 
	"Lightning Bolt"
		SS Consumed Count:		2
		Damage Benefited:		551
		Average Benefit Per Hit:	275
User consumed 0.49 percent of the charges
User gained 0.29 percent of the total benefit
========================================================

========================================================
"Runerogue": 
	"Wound Poison"
		SS Consumed Count:		27
		Damage Benefited:		423
		Average Benefit Per Hit:	15
User consumed 6.59 percent of the charges
User gained 0.22 percent of the total benefit
========================================================

========================================================
"Lanslott": 
	"Chain Lightning"
		SS Consumed Count:		8
		Damage Benefited:		4776
		Average Benefit Per Hit:	597
	"Lightning Bolt"
		SS Consumed Count:		210
		Damage Benefited:		110543
		Average Benefit Per Hit:	526
User consumed 53.17 percent of the charges
User gained 60.42 percent of the total benefit
========================================================

========================================================
"WhatsHerFace": 
	"Lightning Breath"
		SS Consumed Count:		81
		Damage Benefited:		3417
		Average Benefit Per Hit:	42
User consumed 19.76 percent of the charges
User gained 1.79 percent of the total benefit
========================================================

========================================================
"Akama": 
	"Chain Lightning"
		SS Consumed Count:		52
		Damage Benefited:		64695
		Average Benefit Per Hit:	1244
User consumed 12.68 percent of the charges
User gained 33.89 percent of the total benefit
========================================================

========================================================
"Whodi": 
	"Earth Shock"
		SS Consumed Count:		30
		Damage Benefited:		6473
		Average Benefit Per Hit:	215
User consumed 7.32 percent of the charges
User gained 3.39 percent of the total benefit
========================================================
I pretty much gave up after the 3rd wipe and started using exclusive lighting bolt button mash.
But as you can see there is one wind serpant and I ate way more charge than the pet. (I am Lanslott)

Edit:
The hunter just mentioned that since most of our night were wiping to P2 elementals, his pet was never on the elementals that might skew a bit of the result.
Edit2:
Updated the script for more information output

Last edited by Kirashi : 08/12/08 at 3:50 PM.
 
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Old 08/13/08, 1:42 PM   #2127
Zensai
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Dark Iron
Originally Posted by Garimto View Post
From what I've seen and been told it's fine to stack haste over dmg and crit. As you get gear with spell haste the spell damage should scale with it. it's only up to a certain point when you get too much spell haste and spell damage becomes the valuable stat.

As a raider I think you should get around up to 200 spell haste and stop there.
Its been my experience that I started stacking Spell DMG once I got down to 1.6s LB's. I run a 4/1 rotation, single bloodlust, 1 or 2 Enh(depends on the night), 2 serpent pets, 4 drums. And On most fights I can range between 2k up to 2.3k. I don't have a skull yet but there are a few other upgrades, that I believe will push me over the 2.5k DPS mark. I honestly see a decrease in DPS when I have used the Badge chest over my T6. But never the less if you have questions on how I raid, consumables, ect. Just ask
 
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Old 08/13/08, 5:45 PM   #2128
Mmootimus
Piston Honda
 
Mmootimus's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Quel'Thalas (EU)
Trinkets... again

I'm assuming there is not too much disagreement that best in slot pre-SWP is Hex and Skull, but what comes in 2nd, 3rd etc...

I did some pretty extensive testing of DMC:C, Quag's Eye, Sextant and TLC a few pages back, but despite putting in several hours at Dr Boom didn't feel the numbers said anything hugely significant.

Now I have finally picked up the Hex Head, its a question of what goes with it. Which bring me to the point:

a) Is TLC just quite poor now? I went through my WWS logs, and judging by electrical charges gained, TLC was only contributing 2.5% of my DPS across a sample of 6 fights (all fairly straight nuke bosses, for simplicity). Thats assuming it crits at my base (untalented rate). I have ignored resists although they would likely bring it even lower.

I can only imagine my use of haste (and less crit) gear, drums and BL is meaning the 2.5sec bolt CD is screwing it over - it just seems incredibly poor. I have pretty much cemented my TLC in my trinket slot for well over a year now, so I am wondering if it wasn't hugely overrated all along, or if recent upgrades have left it behind.

b) Is the Sextant due a reconsider? I seem to be getting 20-25% uptime on the procc (again based on WWS), and this plus the 40 crit rating actually looks rather good. Assuming the 40 crit = 30 spell dmg (at worst) and a 20% uptime on the procc would be equivalent to 38 damage (at worst)... then thats at least looking better than the rather unreliable +80 dmg provided by DMC:C.

Last edited by Mmootimus : 08/13/08 at 5:53 PM.
 
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Old 08/14/08, 11:30 AM   #2129
Zensai
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Dark Iron
Originally Posted by Mmootimus View Post
Now I have finally picked up the Hex Head, its a question of what goes with it. Which bring me to the point:

a) Is TLC just quite poor now? I went through my WWS logs, and judging by electrical charges gained, TLC was only contributing 2.5% of my DPS across a sample of 6 fights (all fairly straight nuke bosses, for simplicity). Thats assuming it crits at my base (untalented rate). I have ignored resists although they would likely bring it even lower.

I can only imagine my use of haste (and less crit) gear, drums and BL is meaning the 2.5sec bolt CD is screwing it over - it just seems incredibly poor. I have pretty much cemented my TLC in my trinket slot for well over a year now, so I am wondering if it wasn't hugely overrated all along, or if recent upgrades have left it behind.

b) Is the Sextant due a reconsider? I seem to be getting 20-25% uptime on the procc (again based on WWS), and this plus the 40 crit rating actually looks rather good. Assuming the 40 crit = 30 spell dmg (at worst) and a 20% uptime on the procc would be equivalent to 38 damage (at worst)... then thats at least looking better than the rather unreliable +80 dmg provided by DMC:C.
I think it depends on what your doing. I prefer to use TLC on certain boss fights like M'uru, Kil'jaedon, and some of the others. TLC offers nice burst, and you can switch targets mid stream, and the bolt that crits will proc the TLC towards that target... Now with that said, I don't know what content your doing, and where you are at. With what you mentioned in your post I would run Sextant, and keep TLC on hand. The good thing about the sextant is if you see it proc, its your chance to use Hex, and destro pot. Unless they are already on CD. The good about the TLC as you know is it just sits there and works.
 
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Old 08/17/08, 7:40 AM   #2130
Ravhin
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Kor'gall (EU)
Hauberk of Whirling Fury?

Something strange I noticed while raiding Brutallus and Felmyst is that when using the badge chest (haven't got the Mu'ru one yet) I actually observed lower dps then I expected. I saw someone else in this forum also had the same experience. So I went out to Dr Boom to test the difference between this one and the T6 chest using a pure LB spam and no items that depend on procs.

Now since the dear Dr. has lower level I'm sure testing on him will overstate the dps value of crit a bit, but I figured the 27 crit rate would not make a huge difference. I did 5 runs with each chest, ensuring I was just totem buffed the whole time (i.e. check dps when the totems ran out) and didnt run out of mana yet. Result was that the T6 chest performed about 20 dps higher on average.

Theorycrafting wise this is quite a strange result; the hauberk should give another ~1% of pure dps (15-20) on top of the T6 chest; not the other way around. Anybody else that sees the T6 chest turns out better then the Hauberk and has an idea where this is coming from?

It sure makes a dent in my belief to keep stacking spellhaste....
 
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Old 08/17/08, 3:18 PM   #2131
Daidalos
Great Tiger
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Ravhin View Post
Hauberk of Whirling Fury?

Something strange I noticed while raiding Brutallus and Felmyst is that when using the badge chest (haven't got the Mu'ru one yet) I actually observed lower dps then I expected. I saw someone else in this forum also had the same experience. So I went out to Dr Boom to test the difference between this one and the T6 chest using a pure LB spam and no items that depend on procs.

Now since the dear Dr. has lower level I'm sure testing on him will overstate the dps value of crit a bit, but I figured the 27 crit rate would not make a huge difference. I did 5 runs with each chest, ensuring I was just totem buffed the whole time (i.e. check dps when the totems ran out) and didnt run out of mana yet. Result was that the T6 chest performed about 20 dps higher on average.

Theorycrafting wise this is quite a strange result; the hauberk should give another ~1% of pure dps (15-20) on top of the T6 chest; not the other way around. Anybody else that sees the T6 chest turns out better then the Hauberk and has an idea where this is coming from?

It sure makes a dent in my belief to keep stacking spellhaste....
What was your average time between casts? Its important to keep this very low if you stack haste,

 
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Old 08/17/08, 4:17 PM   #2132
Lohmarn
Glass Joe
 
Troll Shaman
 
Zul'Jin
Dark Fiend/LB Macro

Anyone know if there is a working macro to dispel Dark Fiends on M'uru, but also input an argument where if there is nothing to dispel, that it casts Lightning Bolt? ive been looking for ways to make it easier for me to dispel during phase 2 on muru. So far, i have something along these lines just for a regular Dark fiend Macro,

/target Dark Fiend
/cast Purge

but would like to have it target my last target and cast Lightning Bolt. Would this work?

/target Dark Fiend
/cast Purge
/targetlasttarget
/cast Lightning Bolt

The above one works, but doesn't cast LB as it says you have no target selected when there is nothing to dispel

Not very good at writing macros, so figured I would post here and see what people though.

Last edited by Lohmarn : 08/17/08 at 4:37 PM.
 
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Old 08/17/08, 4:57 PM   #2133
Ravhin
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Kor'gall (EU)
To Daidalos:
- I was chaincasting; indeed you need to do this to benefit from haste

To Lohmarn:
- The macro is ok but you need to press it twice to get the lightning bolt out since the purge is still on GCD when this line needs to be executed. Use it without and it works fine
 
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Old 08/17/08, 5:11 PM   #2134
Moshne
Piston Honda
 
Moshne's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Malfurion
Originally Posted by Zensai View Post
Its been my experience that I started stacking Spell DMG once I got down to 1.6s LB's. I run a 4/1 rotation, single bloodlust, 1 or 2 Enh(depends on the night), 2 serpent pets, 4 drums. And On most fights I can range between 2k up to 2.3k. I don't have a skull yet but there are a few other upgrades, that I believe will push me over the 2.5k DPS mark. I honestly see a decrease in DPS when I have used the Badge chest over my T6. But never the less if you have questions on how I raid, consumables, ect. Just ask
Do you happen to have a WWS parse of any of these fights, Brutallus or otherwise. I'd be curious to see what I'm doing drastically wrong. Your gear is quite similar to mine, and you seem to have a less than ideal group makeup (serpent pets etc) that should be hurting you, but you are beating me by a fair bit in terms of performance.
 
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Old 08/17/08, 5:15 PM   #2135
Lohmarn
Glass Joe
 
Troll Shaman
 
Zul'Jin
Ok, ive got some of the kinks worked out but the problem with the macro is that it doesn't go all the way through

I need to put a /notarget argument inbetween the four macro commands so if the first one's target isnt able to be acquired that it skips to the second part of that macro and completes it.

/cast [target=Dark Fiend,harm][harm] Purge
/cast [target=lasttarget,harm][harm] Lightning Bolt

The above was suggested to me to use, but still has the same issue, stops if a Dark Fiend can't be targeted it

/target Dark Fiend
/cast Purge
/targetlasttarget
/cast Lightning Bolt

I would like to use the above, since I know both work, but I need something in between them to keep an error in /target Dark Fiend from ending the macro
 
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Old 08/17/08, 6:07 PM   #2136
Zensai
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Dark Iron
Originally Posted by Moshne View Post
Do you happen to have a WWS parse of any of these fights, Brutallus or otherwise. I'd be curious to see what I'm doing drastically wrong. Your gear is quite similar to mine, and you seem to have a less than ideal group makeup (serpent pets etc) that should be hurting you, but you are beating me by a fair bit in terms of performance.
BT:
Wow Web Stats

Felymyst:
Wow Web Stats

I'll try to get one of Brute this week, I usually sit out so others can get geared.
 
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Old 08/17/08, 6:08 PM   #2137
Zensai
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Dark Iron
Originally Posted by Lohmarn View Post
Ok, ive got some of the kinks worked out but the problem with the macro is that it doesn't go all the way through

I need to put a /notarget argument inbetween the four macro commands so if the first one's target isnt able to be acquired that it skips to the second part of that macro and completes it.

/cast [target=Dark Fiend,harm][harm] Purge
/cast [target=lasttarget,harm][harm] Lightning Bolt

The above was suggested to me to use, but still has the same issue, stops if a Dark Fiend can't be targeted it

/target Dark Fiend
/cast Purge
/targetlasttarget
/cast Lightning Bolt

I would like to use the above, since I know both work, but I need something in between them to keep an error in /target Dark Fiend from ending the macro
What I do is Spam LB/CL on the boss, and I have a macro set to my MouseWheel UP, that does:
/target Dark Fiend
/cast Purge
/targetlasttarget

So for me... LB = E... I hold down E, while constantly scrolling up, it only switch's to the Dark Fiend and purges if its up.
 
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Old 08/17/08, 7:46 PM   #2138
kasouti
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Shaman
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Ravhin View Post
To Daidalos:
Now since the dear Dr. has lower level I'm sure testing on him will overstate the dps value of crit a bit, but I figured the 27 crit rate would not make a huge difference. I did 5 runs with each chest, ensuring I was just totem buffed the whole time (i.e. check dps when the totems ran out) and didnt run out of mana yet. Result was that the T6 chest performed about 20 dps higher on average.
Did you make sure that your crit was actually only 27 crit rating lower? or did you just go off whatever crit you got on the fights from the RNG.
 
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Old 08/18/08, 12:17 AM   #2139
Daidalos
Great Tiger
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Ravhin View Post
To Daidalos:
- I was chaincasting; indeed you need to do this to benefit from haste

To Lohmarn:
- The macro is ok but you need to press it twice to get the lightning bolt out since the purge is still on GCD when this line needs to be executed. Use it without and it works fine
I was not asking if you were chain casting. Even while chain casting there is a gap between casts it can range from 0 to 150ms depending on your setup, keybaord, bindings, macros etc. What is your average time between casts?

Last edited by Daidalos : 08/18/08 at 5:01 AM.

 
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Old 08/18/08, 10:12 AM   #2140
Ravhin
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Kor'gall (EU)
Tx for responses already guys

To Kasouti:
well I just exchanged the Hauberk with the T6 chest which is the 27 crit rating. Without checking the actual crit % I reached for each of the tries, I figured doing them each 5 times would average out most of the crit variation and that leaves then just the 27 crit rating + 16 spelldmg vs 46 haste. This should normally be something like 22 dps vs 35 dps while it turns out to be equal or even less in the latter case

To Daidalos:
Ah, unsure what you meant. I am currently using AHK with a 10ms loop to simulate multiple key-presses to keep my keyboard in one piece. I also use Quartz so without knowing the actual number, I would be very surprised if it's above 50ms
 
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Old 08/19/08, 3:41 PM   #2141
darizra
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Ysera
Shamstats

After a whole summer of non raiding its nice to be back, especially after having gone enhance for a while. Binkenstein, I was a huge fan of your spreadsheet Shamstats when I was raiding elemental. I'm curious if there is a more updated version, I can't seem to find a newer one than the 02/11 version. If there is a new one with some of the newer items and some updates I'd love to know.

~dari
 
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Old 08/19/08, 4:11 PM   #2142
Twistedtotem
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Cho'gall
few minor questions

I had a few quick questions.
Why is it people use the badge chest over badge legs? I wind up with more haste and damage using badge legs over badge chest.

Also is there a point on haste if mana isn't an issue where Skycall Totem is better then Totem of Ancestral Guidance for the haste co-efficient over damage?

Feedback of Adept Elixir/Draenic Wisdom vs Flask of Blinding light: Are Elixirs ever better for pure DPS?

Last question: From some testing LB Spam does higher DPS than a 4/1 rotation after 200 spell haste anyoneknow if 4/1 can ever be more effective dps wise?
 
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Old 08/19/08, 6:45 PM   #2143
kasouti
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Shaman
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Twistedtotem View Post
I had a few quick questions.
Why is it people use the badge chest over badge legs? I wind up with more haste and damage using badge legs over badge chest.

Also is there a point on haste if mana isn't an issue where Skycall Totem is better then Totem of Ancestral Guidance for the haste co-efficient over damage?

Feedback of Adept Elixir/Draenic Wisdom vs Flask of Blinding light: Are Elixirs ever better for pure DPS?

Last question: From some testing LB Spam does higher DPS than a 4/1 rotation after 200 spell haste anyoneknow if 4/1 can ever be more effective dps wise?
The badge chest on its own has more haste and damage than the badge legs. It comes down to what you're replacing in that slot. If I were to switch to badge legs and t6 chest I'd gain 1 damage, lose 1 hit rating, lose .18% crit, and lose 3haste rating.

As for the 4/1 vs LB Spam I'm not sure if its just me, but I've always had the 4/1 be better.
 
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Old 08/19/08, 7:14 PM   #2144
Twistedtotem
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Cho'gall
I have either Badge Chest+t6 legs or T6 chest and badge legs

Just straight stats:
T6 chest+badge legs: +3 int +12 haste -2 spell crit -3 hit -2 damage.
That's with using 10 spell haste gems.
That's why I'm confused by why people are so big on Badge Chest.
My T6 chest uses the SSE and 2 Lionseyes for 25 haste+58 haste from badge pants vs. 10 haste(t6 legs) and 61 haste (badge chest)
 
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Old 08/19/08, 7:24 PM   #2145
lrdx
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Lohmarn View Post
/cast [target=Dark Fiend,harm][harm] Purge
/cast [target=lasttarget,harm][harm] Lightning Bolt
[target=Dark Fiend] was never a valid option. This macro is suggested by Bosskillers M'uru strategy guide, and it is just plain wrong. Target= accepts only >UnitIds<.

Also, you cannot cast 2 spells that trigger GCD in one macro, and last time I checked, Purge triggers GCD. You have to do it with 2 macros. (Or the macro + the standard spell)
 
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Old 08/19/08, 8:07 PM   #2146
Handyhoof
Piston Honda
 
Troll Shaman
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Twistedtotem View Post
of Blinding light: Are Elixirs ever better for pure DPS?
Adept's + Draenic = crit and therefore sustainability. Flask = damage and higher DPS.
 
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Old 08/21/08, 9:48 AM   #2147
Mindrila
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Aegwynn (EU)
Currently I'm classleader for my guild and we don't have any elemental shaman, in fact we are low on shamans except enhancers (we got 3) so I was wondering if it would be beneficial to spec elemental.

I found my raidleaders to be very offensive agains elemental shamans. In their eyes "Elemental are shit in raids, go play PvP with elemental but stay enhancer for raids, resto is so much better caster support than elemental"
I was wondering if this could be true. The thing we lack is a manatide totem, the thing we have is totem of wrath.

Now I've read quite some pages here and the think tank. Still I was wondering how good is ToW vs manatide for dps-casters. I found locks to be quite happy about ToW but manatide seems to be a waste for them.
Mages and shadowpriests seem to be extremely happy about manatide, but ToW is not so appreciated.

I don't know (because I never actually played ele) if a SP is a must for elemental, in the TT it sounded like switching to LB spam solves most of the manaissues. So I could stick with some of our destrolocks and leave the mages and moonkin with their shadowpriest alone.

So well, I found no numbers actually giving a hint for manatide vs ToW, this would be interesting and perhaps the only way to convince my raidleaders. (I even had to calculate the benefit of skilling stoneskin totem to show them it's not worth it -.-)


Then on another side I have some troubles evaluating my gear. As enhancer I made heavy use of a simulator to get my statweights, I tried using a spreadsheet for elemental and ended up with DEP like these:
Damage = 1 (not surprising I hope)
Haste = 1.3
Crit = 0.8
Hit = 0 (capped anyway)

So this suggests stacking haste is the best way to go. But I read somewhere in this thread that hitting 40% crit is crucial for our sustainability.
Well my Ele-gear is not complete (lacking shoulders and helm) but I am right now at 16.04% crit (in character screen) with T6 shoulders and helm I will be at around 20%.
Plus the 13% out of our talents = 33% +1.6% (T6 2P) =34,6 %
Did I miss something? Thats quite a bit off the aimed 40%. I also gemmed for haste as it was suggested in the TT (and the DEP values) and have 120 passive haste now.

Should I go for crit with shoulders + head or is it reasonable to stack just haste further?

I have the sextant available as trinket (for some extracrit), currently I equipped TLC and hex.


Well thats it for this time. I never imagined elemental could be just as challenging to fully understand as enhancement.
 
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Old 08/21/08, 1:16 PM   #2148
Ravhin
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Kor'gall (EU)
Mindrila,

As you see from this quite excellent thread there is good raid viability for elemental shammies. In fact, they often do more dmg then enhancement and bring large benefits to locks and also mages in particular (certainly if these players can exchange some spellhit for spelldmg/haste to prevent hit overcapping). They certainly do more dmg then a moonkin btw, which you seem to have in your raidsetup.

Elemental shammies bad in raids is very old thinking and after the more recent patches just plain wrong since the dmg potential is close to a fire mage. Full benefits are however reached when the shammy is placed in a grp with an SP, and having 1 or more enhance shammies that save their stormstrike for you (which they should because your nature dmg is 2x theirs) helps. Just check the top-end guilds and see how many of them are raiding with ene elemental. You will be surprised how high the number is

If there is no SP there are some fights where you can get by with mana pots, but for several others you will feel it in your dps significantly. But that is true for any dmg caster. Our guild raids with 1 or 2 SPs (depending on availability) and the locks always get the SP because they are the best dmg contributors. They also get the elemental shammy, again for the same reason. If we have 2 SP, the mage grp also gets one. There are healing intensive fights where we give them to healers of course

Manatide is vastly overrated imo since a single SP totally eliminates the need for it. Mages should still benefit more in total dmg from a ToW then manatide, and I assume they chaindrink mana pots anyway (they should if the lack mana)

Then on another side I have some troubles evaluating my gear. As enhancer I made heavy use of a simulator to get my statweights, I tried using a spreadsheet for elemental and ended up with DEP like these:
Damage = 1 (not surprising I hope)
Haste = 1.3
Crit = 0.8
Hit = 0 (capped anyway)
This is about right. It changes slightly as your gear improves ofc. And yes, stacking haste is best but to gain the benefit you must finish every cast and interrupt (push backs are ok). So there are fights less suited for spellhaste
The crit base of 40% is just a number you feel comfortable with. I use 35% and im quite happy with it. a lot lower will hurt your mana too much so getting 20-22% from gear raidbuffed sounds like a good minimum goal

As for gems, a 12 spelldmg gem does same dps as a 5haste/6spelldmg one. Haste however requires you to stand still/not interrupt and costs extra mana so all things being equal: stack spelldmg. A yellow slot bonus is however attractive and there you should go for the reckless pyrestone. I'd stay away from yellow spellhaste gems because they have again same dps, but all the haste disadvantages.
Never ever put spellcrit gems in (low dps)

As for gear I'm not sure what you are asking. You need the 4set bonus and your best bet before SWP is to get head, shoulders, chest and gloves. The legs are (as for any class) quite under par. Get the badge legs instead

Trinkets is a bit of an elusive subject. My calculations say TLC > sextant but there are voices that say otherwise. The hex is obviously very good (3rd ingame)


Have fun convincing your colleagues; maybe refer them to this site
 
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Old 08/21/08, 1:25 PM   #2149
Ravhin
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Kor'gall (EU)
Originally Posted by Twistedtotem View Post
I have either Badge Chest+t6 legs or T6 chest and badge legs

Just straight stats:
T6 chest+badge legs: +3 int +12 haste -2 spell crit -3 hit -2 damage.
That's with using 10 spell haste gems.
That's why I'm confused by why people are so big on Badge Chest.
My T6 chest uses the SSE and 2 Lionseyes for 25 haste+58 haste from badge pants vs. 10 haste(t6 legs) and 61 haste (badge chest)
Imo anyone favouring the legs over any other combination of T6 should learn to use math again.... it's the worst combination possible assuming you have access to badge gear
I would argue to stay away from the lioneyes though because orange gems have same dps but less the problems associated with haste
 
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Old 08/21/08, 3:13 PM   #2150
Zensai
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Dark Iron
Bonus's

My experiences with keeping the T6x4 bonus, is running T6 Boots, Belt, Bracer, and Head make the most sense. For me it came down to replace T6 chest, or T6 helm with the sunwell pieces. Cowl of Gul'dan is nice, but if you look at the gem slot bonus's and what not you still have to give up a bonus for the 2 blue gems required for the Meta. I decided to ditch the T6 chest. I'm happy with my current setup now. I would encourage other Elemental Shamans to make sure they look at all of the bonus's, gems, and how to stay hit capped.
 
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