I'm using grid. Not sure on the backend logic, and I know it isn't 100%, but it is definitely showing some of the incoming heals on some of the targets.

OK, so Grid definitely shows incoming heals. Can anyone who uses Healbot post with a definitive answer? Also, do you know exactly what sort of heals it fails to show as incoming? For example, is Prayer of Mending the main one it misses?

Also, with Grid, will it show an incoming heal even if I'm not targeting that person (using Clique for example)?

I currently use Xperl. It shows HoTs on the target (but not incoming heals). This alone has greatly helped our Druid healer, who screams much less now about us healing targets that he is already healing. I can only imagine what I could do if I knew who was about to get a heal. I'm hoping someone is going to post that something other than Grid also provides this utility. I just hate the way Grid looks (even though it's awesome in every other respect).

If everyone target to heal player targets from ORA2 or any other addon lets you see what other healers are targeting. If a few don't target to heal though, this method isn't working. For grid I never managed to make it show incoming heals in a useful way.

Remember having 50% mana left at the end of the fight is far from having twice as much mana as you needed. If you have 12k mana, 50% is 6k. In the fight you probably used 30-50k mana or something of that magnitude, so having 50% mana left means you had 12-20% too much mana, not double. Of course you can do this more accurately to figure out exactly how much excessive mana you have and how likely you were to actually use it.

Daidalos - That's kinda how I feel as well. I run 2400 healing unbuffed. Considering that mana isn't a issue, I can sacrifice around 100 healing and get around 150-200ish haste. Now, the view is I am perhaps "stealing other people's heals", but look at it from the raid's perspective. Coming from a guild who's overall DPS is probably considered "middle of the pack", it allows for us to perhaps drop 1 healer and grab an extra dps.

Of course, for Illidan clearing guilds, is this improvement a necessity? Probably not, but I would like to think that Sunwell will present itself healing challenges that will push all of us to be as efficient and responsive as we all can be.

Otherwise, I can just sit there and spam chain heal rank 4 blindly and needlessly because I know my spriest will keep my mana bar pinned above 95%. (And the only reason I would be there would be to mana-spring and mana-tide for the spriest who's keeping the mage's mana up)

But going back to the haste question, I think to say that I started my heal before you, it's your own fault that you're overhealing is simplistic. We don't all have the same computer, connection, ping, FPS etc. If you are on the laggier end of the spectrum, stacking haste might not be a bad idea. I would think that the total HPS of your healers should be a consistent sized pie, and we're just looking at improving people who's "slices" are too small and/or changing the number of "slices" (# of healers) completely.

As stated, Grid will show incoming heals, but only from people also using Grid. You do not have to be targeting the person for Grid to display an incoming heal either. It works with Clique. I don't have a definitive list of heals Grid will track as incoming, but I do know it doesn't track every incoming heal. Oddly enough, one of the heals it does not track as incoming is Chain Heal.

I have a request.

I'd like to convince some friends that going into BWL for T2 is worth while. Could someone come up with a theoretical model for level 80? Based on speculated increases to base chain heal at level 80, using level 60-70 increase as a basis for comparison. And based on current +healing/mp5/stats.

Since it's percentage based, would there ever be a time when the loss would be greater then the gain? Do you imagine Blizzard might go back and nerf T2 set bonus if we're using it at level 80?

You are right if you cast one very 3 seconds but if you are spamming the heals the hps will be much higher. An easy test of this is use HealingWave 1 (a 1.0 second cast with 1.5 second GCD) and spam it for a set period of time. Then do the same with a LesserHealingWave 1 (a 1.5 second cast with 1.5 second GCD). This will simulate a 33% haste effect (1.5X33%= .5 seconds).

In a 2 minute test I had 71 of the 1.0 second casts but only 60 of the 1.5 second cast.

This simple test shows an approximate increase of 18% to HPS if you used haste with similar rank lessers. If a few more can test and verify my results please post what you came up with. In single target (raid spread out) healing fights with many taking damage can see haste as very viable but very mana intensive.

Not saying Lesser are the way to go though. A HealingWave with haste will get a bonus as will the ChainHeals and using the most efficient heal will save mana if time allows.

Edit: This test was faulty please read my second post below.

Shamanaut, even with client side have never seen (with no haste) chainheals going faster than 3.0 seconds per cast even when I spam as fast as I can. Same with lessers averaging 2.0 seconds each. Maybe I need a better macro or something to cast at optimum on them. So many things to learn . All I ask is try it out and if I am wrong boo on me as I deserve it. Test is easy to do. If a macro fixes my casting time issue I learned something good and useful today.

I'll do some testing in a bit. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that it doesn't make sense based on what I know.

My apologies, how I did the test was faulty. Used quartz and hit when to red but with more reading found if I constantly hit the buttons could get more heals out. With new test hit 78 in 2 minutes with HealingWave 1 and 72 with the LesserHealing. Do not understand why I am still getting a larger number on 1.0 seconds casts or how to get true time casts out.

How do you get true time casts (ie 1.5 second ones casting in 1.5 seconds)? Even hitting buttons as fast as I could was not happening.

Continue to my next post as these numbers are operator error still please.

I also would appreciate any suggestions on how to cast heals faster. I currently use Quartz to determine when to start casting the next spell. However, I still seem to be the slow poke in my guild. Spamming the key does seem to improve cast time but I'm not really a fan of constantly mashing buttons. It's fine for a particularly intensive phase of a fight but not something I want to do for 5 hours a night.

Could frames per second be a factor? What if we are just not seeing the red portion of the Quartz bar fast enough or a drop in a players heath? I normally get about 15 frames per second but that drops to 5-6 during a raid. Latency is usually 300ms and that doesn't seem to be impacted by whether I'm in a raid or not.